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Just a note to say, well done guys for keeping this civil, can you imagine if something similar had been posted re-horses, in the New Lounge :p especially as we're all supposed to be a bunch of bullying bitches in here :p

Off out to walk the reprobates!!!
 
My prefix? in horses or dogs? , you will have to do some investigating lol - Colin Rose produced one of my ponies that I bred a 14:2hh, which was overall at the Royal International . I also bred, judged(panel), and produced professionally for may years, went through all the probationary judging, and was on many judging panels .

Its very rare I go to a show nowadays, my daughter has dressage horses, so its her turn now , but we do ok, for hobbyists lol

Dogs, well they are terriers, all you dog people ,have a look at the link I put up and you should be able to identify the breed from them. I'll even send a prize out to the winner of a c/d lol.

all the very best guys, no hard feelings , got to go help the daughter groom her foal , then open up at lunchtime - no rest for the wicked eh?
 
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I have loved every minute of it and will continue to do so, with the kc looming, I have handed over all the past 15yrs paperwork and the databse , so I can take a backwards step with the cmmittee side of things, but I'm always here for them if they need me(which I doubt)lol .

We took 16 of the little monsters for a walk yesterday, on the road, for miles!! as its so full of snow no-one can get through, its greaaaat!!!!!!
 
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I'm one who doesn't believe in Plummers :( They are bred to have the worst characteristics of all the breeds so they have a 'purpose'. They are fast becoming the new 'staffy' :( Why would anyone in their right mind want to cross those breeds? Russels are perfectly good for ratting and rabbiting :)
 
Christmas_Crackers said:
I'm one who doesn't believe in Plummers :( They are bred to have the worst characteristics of all the breeds so they have a 'purpose'.
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What do you mean by that, we have dogs in pest control, working with autistic children, living as family pets, ratting dogs, they are also in agility and obediance, they are versatile, agile and intelligent .

Brian Plummer wrote over 50 books and developed the breed for his obsession with ratting,, this breed has a history far better than Rev Russell, Brian used to say - 'People say to me I think I am the next jack russell, but I always tell them, I'm a far better breeder than jack russell ever was' -

as for characters, they are just that, a dog is only as good as its owner!! I have 2 sleep in my bed, they make great hot water bottles for feet on cold days.

We wont be too far from you xmas crackers, come and visit and meet the dogs, it will totally change you, if you have never owned one , you havent the foggiest idea how the breed has progressed.

BTW, guys, how do you post piccies?
 
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tweedette said:
We wont be too far from you xmas crackers, come and visit and meet the dogs, it will totally change you, if you have never owned one , you havent the foggiest idea how the breed has progressed.
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I've had 4 as fosters (I foster and rehab working and difficult dogs for a local and for a national rehoming charity). Only one was suitable for rehoming :( My impression of the breed so far is not a good one...

Maybe we should start another thread rather than hijacking the OPs ;)
 
Kitsmas_Pudding said:
Its highly amusing how people stand in defence of some breeds and yet we're still STILL facing breed prejudice every day...
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I'm just against the purpose of a plummer when Russells already exist and do the job perfectly well. The plummer is just a russell x bull x beagle with a bit of fell in the mix somewhere. Brian Plummer himself said adding bull to the mix is not a good idea yet it still goes on. At the end of the day the Plummer terrier is just another of the in-fashion mongrels. But bred for working rather than as a pet.
 
We have a LOT of breeds that cover the same purpose though don't we?

The Dogo Argentino is bred from Great Dane, Bull Terrier, Boxer, Pointer, Great Pyrenees, Old English Bulldog, Irish Wolfhound, Dogue de Bordeaux and the Spanish Mastiff. However the product (essentially yes a MONGREL) is now a bona fide pure breed in its own right, with intrinsic capabilities that yes, were well enough served by the foundation breeds, but not completely.
 
I really don't know what to say to that :(
Can people really be stpid enough to belive that because they like their animals they are not puppy farmers when breeding at every chance?
 
Kitsmas_Pudding said:
We have a LOT of breeds that cover the same purpose though don't we?

The Dogo Argentino is bred from Great Dane, Bull Terrier, Boxer, Pointer, Great Pyrenees, Old English Bulldog, Irish Wolfhound, Dogue de Bordeaux and the Spanish Mastiff. However the product (essentially yes a MONGREL) is now a bona fide pure breed in its own right, with intrinsic capabilities that yes, were well enough served by the foundation breeds, but not completely.
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Plummers 'fall in love' , they can be a family dog, but they always attach themselves to one person in particular . Rehoming to me is a no no, you say the 4 you have had have been no good, how do you know they were from new blood? Brian said a lot of things then contradicted himself, why! only 3 yrs ago I said never again any horses , now between my daughter and I we have 6 , so we can all change our minds - even a man can.

If I were to judge a breed by meeting rescue dogs only, it would be a sad time indeed for every breed sent for rehoming, we can all state negatives, but you cant beat experience and hands on working with a breed to learn.

Plummers arent for everyone, but when you have put heart and soul into a project and reaped results plus your stock continues to improve, its no bad thing - anyway, if we are going on about breeds, when was the last uk breed recognised by the kc, and how many non uk dogs do we have , its a big world and room for all. there is a place for plummers in the right hands and rescue centres are not that, I take it you put to sleep the other 3 you had if you only rehomed one, although I do wonder where the dogs came from in first place to be found in scotland?
 
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Christmas_Crackers said:
At the end of the day the Plummer terrier is just another of the in-fashion mongrels. But bred for working rather than as a pet.
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You mean like cockadoodles , and sprockers , and the likes? as for mongrels - they arent, they are hybrids, as all the dogs in the mix were 'pure'. If they were mongrels consistancy of type would never have emerged.
 
I make no apology for standing in defence of one particular breed. I don't have enough of an interest in, or knowledge of, other breeds and TBH, it's 2010, nearly 2011, there are tens of thousands of dog breeds with multitudes or purposes, and I don't know why people are out trying to create new ones - just my opinion though.
 
In their defense I'm sure everyone thought they were at the height of their breeding capabilities in every century CC! If people had thought that in past years we'd be without some important breeds, which I'm sure would make some people very unhappy. I think its human nature to try and improve on things, however the side affects have got to be weighed up - but if there are homes for these animals, is there really a problem in trying to refine a characteristic(s)? And if so, what is it?
 
My problem with trying to create a new breed in this day and age when so many already exist, it that it takes a lot of refinement and a lot of bum litters, or bum dogs in those litters, in the process of getting the end product, and yes, in this current climate when the rescues are full to busting, where do they all go? Are there homes?
Like I say, it's just my opinion and I don't see it changing soon.
 
tweedette said:
I have loved every minute of it and will continue to do so, with the kc looming, I have handed over all the past 15yrs paperwork and the databse , so I can take a backwards step with the cmmittee side of things, but I'm always here for them if they need me(which I doubt)lol .

We took 16 of the little monsters for a walk yesterday, on the road, for miles!! as its so full of snow no-one can get through, its greaaaat!!!!!!
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I have to say that is one thing I cannot understand about any new breed - why people strive so hard for KC recognition? I strongly believe it does nothing to improve any breed :(

I hadnt cottoned on to the fact that they were plummer terriers, I've got a lurcher book by him
 
CaveCanem said:
My problem with trying to create a new breed in this day and age when so many already exist, it that it takes a lot of refinement and a lot of bum litters, or bum dogs in those litters, in the process of getting the end product, and yes, in this current climate when the rescues are full to busting, where do they all go? Are there homes?
Like I say, it's just my opinion and I don't see it changing soon.
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Thanks CC you have put my thoughts into words :) What she said everyone :)
 
CaveCanem said:
My problem with trying to create a new breed in this day and age when so many already exist, it that it takes a lot of refinement and a lot of bum litters, or bum dogs in those litters, in the process of getting the end product, and yes, in this current climate when the rescues are full to busting, where do they all go? Are there homes?
Like I say, it's just my opinion and I don't see it changing soon.
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Where did they ever go CC, through the years? I think in order to challenge people currently trying to create new breeds you have to question the fallout previously in creating the breeds we have now. Surely even in breeding purebreds now, there will be bum dogs? I think if you are using good quality dogs from any breed, in the pursuit of a new breed, the likelyhood is as certain as any, that even if you do not get the dog with the definite characteristis you were after, you'll get a healthy useful dog - and so long as there are homes for them, I don't think there's an issue.
 
AH, my head hurts :p

I don't think I can say 'but what if the GSD never existed' - it's like saying 'if I had wings, I could fly' - the GSD and lots of other breeds DO exist, they're here, now, on the ground (being screwed!!) so why not focus on the ones we have.

It happens in pure bred/pedigree dogs too, I wouldn't call the litter my own two came out of a roaring success and I dread to think what would have happened if my male had gone to a more inexperienced home :o

And we're still trying to get it right...like I say, it's just my opinion, I just don't think we need any new breeds in 2010, trying to make better the ones we already have is the challenge we need to be facing.
 
FestiveSpirit said:
LMAO :D I think I might know a little more about inherant problems with CKCS than the vast majority of people on this forum :p

Those problems were all present 30 years ago.......
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And the REALLY pathetic thing is that it has been denied and brushed under the carpet by UK "breeders" for 30 years plus. They did nothing about it. Most are easy enough to diagnose, right there they could have stopped breeding affected individuals. It took the Pedigree Dog expose to bring it into the mainstream.

Vet and researcher having spent 30 + years on canine and equine genetics.
 
Plummers have been around more than 15 yrs, its hardly a new breed as such, just over the past 15 yrs its been 'cleaned up' to allow it to be recognised as a new breed , it was Brians dying wish to be immortal, he will be once the dogs are recognised, its the least we owe him after all he has contributed over the years. Personally I'm not too bothered about kc, and neither are a lot of people, but its either that or loose them altogether then in years to come they will be hard if not impossible to ressurect.

but!! I wont be showing them, if it goes the right way , my dogs will be produced and exhibited by someone else, hopefully someone with an interest in the breed.

BTW,Murphy, I have Plummers books if anyone wants any - many first editions, but ebay is your best place for bargain plummer books.
 
cefyl said:
And the REALLY pathetic thing is that it has been denied and brushed under the carpet by UK "breeders" for 30 years plus. They did nothing about it. Most are easy enough to diagnose, right there they could have stopped breeding affected individuals. It took the Pedigree Dog expose to bring it into the mainstream.

Vet and researcher having spent 30 + years on canine and equine genetics.
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Really? What a very generalised comment, my own experiences are that my mum has been heart testing/eye testing etc etc etc for the past 30 years she has been breeding CKCS :)
 
Re Pedigree Dogs Exposed, the progressive GSD fraternity have been lobbying the KC for decades asking for low hip scores in breeding stock to be made mandatory in order for pups to be registered, and asking for very basic tests of working ability, like a short courage test and off-lead gaiting, to be introduced to the adult showing classes so that the best examples of the breed could be promoted.

It was the GSD fraternity along with Dr Malcolm Willis that helped introduce the hip and elbow scoring schemes to the UK that many breeds now use, but got painted as bad guys by that bloody programme because of a bit of bloody slippy green carpet at Crufts....made much better television....
 
As CC says, GSD folk have being trying for years to get the KC to implement health and working tests in the breed. I was at the inaugural meeting of the group that pushed for hip scoring, that was in the 70s but still the KC won't make a low score compulsory before progeny can be kc registered. Mind you even if it were it wouldn't make any difference to the breeder in the oP would it.:mad:
 
FestiveSpirit said:
Really? What a very generalised comment, my own experiences are that my mum has been heart testing/eye testing etc etc etc for the past 30 years she has been breeding CKCS :)
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Yes it is a generalised comment because that is why the breed is in the poor state it is in now. Good on your mother. So she has rejected any stock from her breeding programme that has the known health defects? What is her affix? So she will be one of the breeders that have submitted all the relevant health certs to the KC for the new public database. I can look out for it.
 
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