Puppies! Can now be purchased via PayPal! Yay!

cefyl said:
Yes it is a generalised comment because that is why the breed is in the poor state it is in now. Good on your mother. So she has rejected any stock from her breeding programme that has the known health defects? What is her affix? So she will be one of the breeders that have submitted all the relevant health certs to the KC for the new public database. I can look out for it.
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Gosh you arent very good are you, it is very very easy to find out :D
 
WHAT THE HELL... is council accredited breeder scheme ? , they certainly won't be kennel club accredited that's for sure , they don't even know the father of some of the pups , makes me so angry being a responsible breeder myself , all our puppies have eye's and ears tested and come from DNA tested and hip scored parents ..... there must be something that can be done to stop muppets like these , they are only breeding dogs to make money !!
 
My motherboard died today. Trust it to do so just as this thread has seems to turn into an interesting debate (and more importantly, I have work and a lab report to finish ASAP :mad:)

I won't be around much, as I have to sneak into somebody elses office to use the computer! :p So I can't really join in. However, please all try to keep it civil even on points where we disagree. A reasoned debate on breeding practice is good. A reasoned debate on the worth of inventing breeds is good. Look at individuals and look at the bigger picture. The two are independant entities whether you like it or not. But please don't use a thread I started as a grounds for slinging monkey poo at each other :p

Tweedette, I believe you agreed to disagree on the subject of raising concerns over individuals who are abusing the current system. That's fine, I can see some of your points. And I can recognise the difference between raising concerns and starting a vitriolic hate campaign against certain individuals. I'm not unbalanced thank you. Please don't reference me as somebody who 'trawls the internet' looking for 'poor individuals' so that I can 'persecute them'. In your defensiveness over your own breed I do believe you are missing the broader picture here, as well as the initial intentions of this thread- which was nothing more than to share my horror at the practices advertised by a certain website and ask for others' commentary.

it was Brians dying wish to be immortal, he will be once the dogs are recognised
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I find that really creepy. It's also a rubbish reason to continue developing a breed. But mostly I just find it creepy. I've found other comments of yours odd as well, particularly involving rehoming and cross contamination at the vets. HOWEVER, you have your reasons for your views I'm sure. So you carry on. I have my reasons for my own strong views over bad breeding practice, so I'll just carry on too. You're health testing, seem to run quite a strict breeding program and are obviously very knowledgable about your chosen breed, whether I agree with it's recent creation or not is completely irrelevant. It's a big world, there's enough space for both of us :)

I'm now off to test my motherboard, in the hopes it's really just the PSU that has died. If not, see you all in oh.... a month :rolleyes::( I expec to return to a veritable essay of opinions on breeding. Otheriwse I shall be bored and dissapointed with you all! (Bet you all will care oh so much :D:p)
 
computors eh!!! let you down at the most inconveniant times............I knew Brian very well and working with him 5yrs was worse than any university degree. I used to get a list of questions to answer, lists of books to read, he was a hard taskmaster.

When I first met him he asked what I could give to the breed(as most owners then just worked thedogs) I said , I dont dig!!! but I am a stockman and a darn good breeder - he gave me a chance, Ipromised I would't let him down , hence I am very protective with the breed , so do forgive me if I grrrrrrrr at people who diss the work I have done.

I know I'm a controversial person, but mean no harm, I'm from th 'old school' with old traditions and values. Hence I dont like to target individuals with hate campaigns.

Council licencing, is done by animal health officers, it checks, housing, cleanliness, feed rooms, dogs health , noise pollution, how you dispose of animal waste etc etc. That is all, its not concerned with the quality of dogs you are breeding just the conditions they are kept in . I agree the site in question is all about breeding puppies, whereas our site is all about how the breed was created and the hardships we have encountered along the way, still its the council which needs to change its licencing to stop this indiscriminate breeding of sub quality animals.

then again, look how much indiscriminate breeding goes on with horses......the world is mad. lol
 
Well said Pix, lets keep it polite and agree to disagree on some points if need be.
Re council licensing, it varies very much from one council to the other I think. Our council used to be very casual about handing out breeders licences, I got mine without them even seeing my whelping kennel.:eek: However, our current dog warden is very keen on decent breeding practices (he used to breed shi tzus) and does visit and check up on licensed kennels, and if he is not happy about things he will try and do something about it. He actually did manage to stop one person who was churning out the litters from poor facilities.
 
.........I knew Brian very well and working with him 5yrs was worse than any university degree. I used to get a list of questions to answer, lists of books to read, he was a hard taskmaster.

When I first met him he asked what I could give to the breed(as most owners then just worked thedogs) I said , I dont dig!!! but I am a stockman and a darn good breeder - he gave me a chance, Ipromised I would't let him down , hence I am very protective with the breed , so do forgive me if I grrrrrrrr at people who diss the work I have done.

I know I'm a controversial person, but mean no harm, I'm from th 'old school' with old traditions and values. Hence I dont like to target individuals with hate campaigns.

I don`t think you are at all controversial! Just old school respectful of a great man and wanting to continue his work as he would have wished.
I don`t work my lakies either,but some who buy them do,and they say they are among the best,and like you mine have standardized at 13/14" ,narrow and whilst sweet natured with pet owners..once the blue touch paper is lit,by golly they work! Heaven forbid working Lakies or Plummers ever get KC recognition.
In fact the GSD breeder you others choose to attack on here DOES hip score and Haem test. Her dogs look well in my opinion,and may not look "quality" to breed fans ..but to me they look nicely "normal"
It would be better if they were NDTR tattooed,as that traces rescues back to the Breeder,who at the end of the day should be where the buck stops.

It would also be better to issue a raw food diet based sheet,rather than a bog standard "puppy pack",but loads of breeders go for the easy option.

By the way..why are your Plummers not docked..is there no vet near you who would co-operate?
 
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This is just disgusting. I hope something is done about it. Can't actually believe i just read this on their site ...

..."WE BOUGHT CAGNEY THEN FOUND OUT SHE WAS PREGNANT SO WE CANNOT GUARANTEE THE PUPS ARE GSD, OUR VET SAYS THEY DEFINATELY LOOK LIKE GSD'S BUT WE CANNOT BE SURE (4 BOYS 3 GIRLS) £300"

OMG. Unbelievable. That is all!
 
Um...bought in and found:eek: to be in whelp,not mated at their home .....so uncertain of the sire BEFORE she got to them. Honest at least!!:rolleyes:
 
i would like to let all the high and mighty people out there that think they know everything into a little suprise, yes we had all our dogs here when the vet and council came out for our licence, and yes we intend to up the licence, we dont have breeding facilities as we have all our puppies born in our own home around us not in rooms outside in saw dust, yes we have seen some dogs and puppies brought up in what i would call a puppy farm, no water, no toys, locked up in a room outside to mess all over where they want on sawdust, well shock for you all unless you have actually been out to visit us how would you know about us and our dogs, they are all loved and yes they may be a bit thin after pups but are soon fattened up again, we have cuboards full of food we dont feed them the cheapest, we have all our pups paper trained by about 90% before they go, they are well socialized even with children and babies yes my grandkids, we do not sell them through paypal we have a business paypal account as we have customers that would like to pay a deposit on a puppy until they can get through to view them, and as for us not knowing the dad of cagneys pups who is at fault surely the person we bought her from that disconnected there number , at least im not trying to sell them as our own gsd ive advertised they may be cross. we have sold a few pups to the police force, all our pups and dogs are lovely, kind, and great temprements, 2 even come from brian plummer up in scotland. and all our dogs that we have recently bought are being hip scored, and thunder has already been heamophillia tested =clear, lastly report us to the tax man please, we are a registered legit business, unlike some of you that are puppy farmers and have nothing better to do with your time cos you dont look after your dogs so you have loads of time at hand to sit on forums all day, if any off our bitches werent up to standard to be bred we wouldnt breed them, we have 1 litter py from each bitch which is what the law states, and if youd like to come see our books youll see we put most the money back into the dogs, so dont point fingers without knowing what you talking about.
 
debbie1818 said:
i would like to let all the high and mighty people out there that think they know everything into a little suprise, yes we had all our dogs here when the vet and council came out for our licence, and yes we intend to up the licence, we dont have breeding facilities as we have all our puppies born in our own home around us not in rooms outside in saw dust, yes we have seen some dogs and puppies brought up in what i would call a puppy farm, no water, no toys, locked up in a room outside to mess all over where they want on sawdust, well shock for you all unless you have actually been out to visit us how would you know about us and our dogs, they are all loved and yes they may be a bit thin after pups but are soon fattened up again, we have cuboards full of food we dont feed them the cheapest, we have all our pups paper trained by about 90% before they go, they are well socialized even with children and babies yes my grandkids, we do not sell them through paypal we have a business paypal account as we have customers that would like to pay a deposit on a puppy until they can get through to view them, and as for us not knowing the dad of cagneys pups who is at fault surely the person we bought her from that disconnected there number , at least im not trying to sell them as our own gsd ive advertised they may be cross. we have sold a few pups to the police force, all our pups and dogs are lovely, kind, and great temprements, 2 even come from brian plummer up in scotland. and all our dogs that we have recently bought are being hip scored, and thunder has already been heamophillia tested =clear, lastly report us to the tax man please, we are a registered legit business, unlike some of you that are puppy farmers and have nothing better to do with your time cos you dont look after your dogs so you have loads of time at hand to sit on forums all day, if any off our bitches werent up to standard to be bred we wouldnt breed them, we have 1 litter py from each bitch which is what the law states, and if youd like to come see our books youll see we put most the money back into the dogs, so dont point fingers without knowing what you talking about.
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Can you not find a better way to earn a living than living off the misery of churned out animals ?
 
Hi Debbie

I contacted you about pups some while ago, while I was looking for a GSD pup, you were very helpful. Unfortunately I think you have set yourself up for a BIG argument here, if you look honestly at your dogs I'm sure you are aware that they are NOT the creme de la creme of GSD crop and I am sure if you are as intelligent as you are nice, you will realise you are catering to a very odd GSD market - the ones who don't do much research or know much about pups.
I didn't come to you, mainly because I found someone who was very highly appraised by the GSD people on this forum and word of mouth speaks a lot. I'm sure if you really focussed on your dogs and really looked at improving the breed people here would sing your praises too in time.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, why not have less litters and spend that money on getting a real quality bitch and breeding her to a real quality stud and creating a fab litter (who you'll be able to sell for more if that helps...turnover??) but really your main aim should be QUALITY not quantity. Breed because your passionate about the breed not to make money - as I'm sure you know - it doesn't make much! :D
For me paying by paypal is completely besides the buy - its a good option for some people, who don't know what that has specifically been picked up on.
Hope this helps and good luck Debbie, you are about to get flamed.
Jen x
 
I don't think the tone of her post helps either by berating people who have a dislike of puppy farms. What is it with the welsh and these farm people. Can't they earn income any other way. I've seen welsh puppy farms where they churn out many different breeds and its really sad, they obviously don't have a love of a breed its anything they think will sell.

Good advice above though if you have to breed, focus on smaller numbers at better quality.
 
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I'm welsh dear, and brought up on a farm and I don't like the tone of YOUR post either, but just like Debbie you deserve respect so I won't reply to YOU in the manner I'd like to either.
 
Maybe its just co-incidence then but every puppy farm I've come across has been in Wales. Not an anti welsh sentiment an anti puppy farm sentiment :D
 
I am sure that not everyone who buys puppy farmed dogs comes all the way to Wales to get them. However yes, we do seem to have a lot and they should be ashamed of themselves. Having personally washed faeces and urine from a westie bitch who'd done her time - its something I take VERY seriously, but Debbie does deserve her chance to reply and if we keep it civil, maybe we can help her see the light.
However if we mud sling, we'll solve nothing.
 
BBH said:
Maybe its just co-incidence then but every puppy farm I've come across has been in Wales. Not an anti welsh sentiment an anti puppy farm sentiment :D
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Not just in Wales..try Eire..very little legislation over there,the puppies come over the Irish Sea for retail here,horrible! As I understood it all puppies from licensed breeders were supposed to be chipped/tattooed years ago,and it was illegal to resell puppies without a pet shop licence;none of which is adhered to.It`s a shame and rotten for the dogs involved.
But we must avoid any possible accusation of racism on here .By the way..the new KC directive will limit a bitch to four litters only,and two caeserean births.Quite how they intend to enforce the latter is a mystery..as who pays the vet for the op will surely prevent him being silly enough to report such to the KC without payment! Vet gets nothing..but loses client,no brainer that.
Puppy farmers will merely reg another couple of litters..or more..of that same bitch using the Dog Lovers Registration scheme. As long as your average Joe sees "Registered " he still thinks it`s OK.The Kennel Club is just so naive folks!
 
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So we saying that everyone on here has bought their dogs from breeders who are only breeding to 'further the line' or for '1 to keep to show' then? Cos while people who mass produce puppies as this person is make me sick they don't come far behind anyone who breeds for profit in my view. One litter or 10 it all comes down to profiting from an animal who is unable to protest. What ever excuse you use to sweeten the pill you are still selling dogs into all ready over populated and strangled system. I do find it a little hypocritical that people who have been out and bought dogs from breeders take the moral high ground so quickly. And give me the old 'most breeders don't make any money' line and I'll spit my coffee out over the screen, cos come on that really is one of the biggest load of bs I've ever heard. Hundreds of pounds for each dog and you are not making money...ha!:rolleyes:

And so what if this person takes paypal...is that any different from any other form of payment???
 
Kitsmas_Pudding said:
I'm sure Ridebumble will give you the breakdown that will show that PROPER breeders don't make much money at all!
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You know what? I would LOVE that!! I have asked and asked on dog forums for someone to give me a breakdown of exactly what costs and expenses breeders have. Not one person has given me the consise and exact information. Funny that.

Sorry I lie, 1 lady did give it to me but as she was breeding a breed that only had a small population in this country and had to import her stud obviously her expenses were much higher than most, so it wasn't really a fair or common list to be much use.
 
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Ridebumble can, he was on here browsing earlier - but if you search his posts it will be on there, its astounding what you have to pay out for as a GOOD breeder.
 
I think its pretty impossible to give an accurate breakdown of costs, as everyones will differ, depending on housing heating, general care, inoculations, wormings etc, plus feed, and treats!!!! we only feed the best hence rearing costs are very expensive , plus we tend to run two pups on from a litter to see how they mature, its not easy looking for your next generation dog/bitch once you get to this stage of development. I just know it costs a fortune, but they are worth every penny.

Its quite sad the lady with the gsd's has had to come and justify her dogs , and if she did as she says and bought gsd's form brian, I'm afraid he talked them better than they were, then became obsessed with white ones, but found they had either blue or orange in their coat, he wanted to breed pure whites before he died, it didnt happen - but in that I could never see the point as the kc dont register them do they? . His wife norma now churns pups out like they are going out of fashion, none of the dogs ever get out for a walk as she lives next to a railway siding . I adored Brian, it was just a shame he couldnt put into practice what he preached with his own dogs, he could do you a mathmatecal formula for anything, yet couldnt reverse a car!!!
 
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