"Puppies, exercise and osteoarthritis - what advice should we give to pet owners"

[skinnydipper]

Veterinary orthopaedic specialists Professor Stuart Carmichael and Mike Farrell

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=438781708251331&set=a.396695732459929

 

[Jenko109]

I cant read it but can see the summary.

I have always found the five minute rule baffling and wondered how people coped with a 6 month old puppy only getting a half an hour walk!

I dont go by the 5 minute rule. I dont think it can be measured like that as there are just too many variables.

My whippets first walk at 10 weeks old, was probably all of five minutes. That was enough. He was knackered! Not because it was physically challenging, but mentally it was very hard work for him. That same puppy at six months, would still be darting around my house and stealing my socks if I only gave him a half an hour walk.

 

[skinnydipper]

I cant read it but can see the summary.

I hope this helps - page 18

https://indd.adobe.com/view/1aad4f2...iwHSOMwG6qLu045dhvv7DydMd44-XFbgQEaXvhFwse_ak

 

[Jenko109]

Page 18

https://indd.adobe.com/view/1aad4f2...iwHSOMwG6qLu045dhvv7DydMd44-XFbgQEaXvhFwse_ak

Thanks. Something wrong with my phone though. Wont let me get off the first page. I'll have to have a look when I'm next on the desktop.

 

[wren123]

Very interesting, thank you.

 

[Parrotperson]

well thank goodness for this. I've always thought 5 mins per month a silly rule for all the above reasons. Never adhered to it. never had a problem.

 

[Clodagh]

I assume this is the opposite side of the argument to that which CT has posted? I thought hers made a lot of sense, I’m sure more injuries are caused by uncontrolled play than anything else.
I think the 5 minute rule is a good basic starting point and I very roughly follow it, however I don’t jog and rarely do any distance on hard surface.

 

[skinnydipper]

Posted Jan 2020. Posting again in case anyone missed it:

Puppies, exercise and growth plates:

Dr. Darryl L. Millis is a Diplomate of both the American College of Veterinary Surgeons and the American College of Veterinary Sports Medicine and Rehabilitation, and a Certified Canine Rehabilitation Practitioner. He is a Professor of Orthopedic Surgery and Director of the CARES Center for Veterinary Sports Medicine at the University of Tennessee College of Veterinary Medicine, where he has taught veterinary orthopedics for over 25 years.

The following is a recent post on his blog. It is an interesting read.

https://www.mylamedog.com/post/what...ng-puppies-until-the-growth-plates-are-closed

 

[honetpot]

I am not surprised its down to genetic's, a lot of research is not really based on real world experience, and when you take some of it out of context it becomes twisted.

 

[SAujla]

I think the 5 minute rule is good for inexperienced people like myself. Others can gauge what is okay for their dog but I couldn't so it was helpful for me.

I think a bigger issue than length of exercise is what the puppies are doing. My breeder advised to avoid stairs for fist 6 months at least. I think puppies that are regularly going up stairs or on and off sofa is not going to be good for them long term.

I might have taken this too far though, as my dog who is 2 years will happily jump into the car or on the sofa, but can't/won't jump off, ever. So I pick her up each time, I know I should maybe try and get her to do it herself but I don't mind and she won't have the harsher impact on her elbows of jumping down

 

[Boulty]

I think it's about being sensible. For the first few weeks of walking mine was doing 5-10 minute walks a couple of times a day as that's what his brain could cope with & then we gradually added another 10 mins or so every few weeks & started throwing the odd longer walk in. He's 12 months now & tends to do a couple of hours a day depending on time constraints. Since he became a bit disengaged with things like snuffle mats & puzzle feeders (he had a bit of a food aversion at one point) I probably don't do as much enrichment stuff with him as I should. Ditto training in general as normally when I'm free to do stuff it's his sleepy time. (I do want to look into some agility training for fun now he's old enough & did sign up for some scentwork stuff as well but it's not happened yet due to cancellations or my busyness)

I carried him up & down the stairs inside for as long as he'd let me (I think he was about 6 months when he figured them out) although he did the couple of steps in the garden pretty much from day 1 ( we don't talk about the time aged about 10 months old that he launched himself off the few foot drop off the patio onto the grass chasing a bird ? or the time we caught him on the kitchen table, all chairs pushed under so God knows how he got there & his response to knowing he shouldn't be up there was to leap onto the floor... hadn't anticipated this stupidity so didn't catch him! Common sense isn't a strong point of his & he definitely makes me cringe with some of the out of the blue idiotic things he does) I still lift him in & out of car as it's not a very dog friendly setup.

 

[TPO]

Thanks for sharing. That article might shut the Internet self appointed experts up and stop them sending PMs when they don't know jack ?

 

[scats]

We have never been massively cautious if I’m honest. JD was like a spring when she was a pup- she bounced everywhere and was absolutely wild with my best mates dog. We did try to keep her calm but it was near on impossible so we sort of gave up.
She’s now 13 and started showing signs of mild arthritis a couple of years ago. It’s a bit worse now, but she can still jump in the car, get up the stairs etc. Shes a Great Dane x so I think we’ve done a pretty decent job to keep her going as long as we have. People can’t believe she’s the age she is when they meet her so I t don’t think we did anything too wrong.

 

[skinnydipper]

I might have taken this too far though, as my dog who is 2 years will happily jump into the car or on the sofa, but can't/won't jump off, ever. So I pick her up each time, I know I should maybe try and get her to do it herself but I don't mind and she won't have the harsher impact on her elbows of jumping down

If you want to save your back, and her elbows and shoulders, you could train her to use a ramp to exit the car.

 

[SAujla]

If you want to save your back, and her elbows and shoulders, you could train her to use a ramp to exit the car.

Thats a good idea, I'm okay for now as she isn't the heaviest Labrador and I have zero intention of letting her get heavier than what she is. Its definitely something I'll bear in mind though. She never comes up the stairs, if I go upstairs she just waits at the bottom

 

[Annette4]

I've always loosely followed the 5 minute rule but more so for 'forced' lead walking. I'm probably over cautious in general but considering the sports I do, I would rather go really slowly focus on overall fitness and them have long sound lives than rush them. I never worried this much with 'just' pets.

 

[splashgirl45]

my new puppy plays with one of my terriers and i must admit i feel they may play too much but he is very lively so if i stopped them he would be manic. he sleeps quite a bit and just now the other 2 went into the garden and he stayed in his bed,so he is being a bit sensible.. ive got a pet stroller that he is in when i walk the other 2 and when we get home he is shattered, i think its because he is seeing people,other dogs, trees,and the river and he is mentally tired. when i start walking him i will have him in the stroller and let him have 10 mins walking and gradually increase the time he walks.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Having a breed that can be prone to joint problems I always advise people to err on the side of caution re exercise, and I wouldn't let a youngster do stairs or jump in and out of the car. Interestingly , my 2 little dogs have monthly physio and the physiotherapist has said that it is really best that they never jump out of the car, that is dogs weighing around 7 kg.
I am always wary of 2 pups playing rough together. It may be coincidence but years ago I had 2 GSD pups of very similar age who played together constantly. When they were hip scored both came out with far higher scores than their breeding would suggest.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I posted this on the other thread:

With a combination of good genetics and careful management, I've managed to get my eldest two dogs to double figures and still very energetic/sound/capable and that's with doing a very physically demanding sport.
One of the most 'Internet famous/crowd favourite' dogs in my sport (done hundreds of trials and is famous for stripping sleeves off helpers in the long flight, did it twice at worlds in 2017) turned 12 last week and is still fit as a flea.
He had x-rays redone when he was ten or so and they were as clean as a whistle.

I do recall a poster getting incredibly upset when it was suggested that running a young dog into the ground for hours because it 'loved'/'needed' it would make problems at the other end of its life.
I love my oldies and I would hate to see them struggling/limping about after everything they've done for me.

 

[fiwen30]

In a similar vein to people letting their young dogs rag without a thought for their futures, it really grinds me when people let their old dogs age, without any additional support.

Partner’s parents golden is about 13 now, and while he’s always been in the best of health, I think that has now blinded them to the fact that the dog isn’t comfortable anymore. He grunts and grumbles when he gets up or lies down, is a little wobbly on his back legs, and from what I hear he gets run ragged on his walks and then will collapse and not move for the rest of the day.

They brush it off as him being ‘a bit old’, ‘slowing down’ etc. When there’s any suggestions of changing his management - introducing librella or other pain meds, doing shorter more frequent walks, putting down rugs so he’s not sliding over laminate anymore, keeping his nails short - they’re just met with bland, confused faces. They seem to think it’s just fine, somehow?

I’ve never fully trusted the golden in 4 years - he can be unpredictable - but these days I keep well clear of him, knowing that he’s likely in discomfort. It’s very sad, he’s had a long and happy life, and should deserve to get the support he needs now. It’s not fair when owners stick their heads in the sand about what is right for their dogs, be they young or old.

 

[Btomkins]

You’re having a laugh if you think my euro Doberman puppy would cope with the 5 minute rule ? I try hard not to overdo it for her age but she’s a very busy puppy so even with lots of mental stimulation she still requires a lot more than other puppys her age. It’s difficult getting that balance right when there is so much conflicting info out there and each puppy is an individual.

Shes not always a nutter, ‘helping’ me work is a favourite activity.

 

[CorvusCorax]

In a similar vein to people letting their young dogs rag without a thought for their futures, it really grinds me when people let their old dogs age, without any additional support.

Partner’s parents golden is about 13 now, and while he’s always been in the best of health, I think that has now blinded them to the fact that the dog isn’t comfortable anymore. He grunts and grumbles when he gets up or lies down, is a little wobbly on his back legs, and from what I hear he gets run ragged on his walks and then will collapse and not move for the rest of the day.

They brush it off as him being ‘a bit old’, ‘slowing down’ etc. When there’s any suggestions of changing his management - introducing librella or other pain meds, doing shorter more frequent walks, putting down rugs so he’s not sliding over laminate anymore, keeping his nails short - they’re just met with bland, confused faces. They seem to think it’s just fine, somehow?

I’ve never fully trusted the golden in 4 years - he can be unpredictable - but these days I keep well clear of him, knowing that he’s likely in discomfort. It’s very sad, he’s had a long and happy life, and should deserve to get the support he needs now. It’s not fair when owners stick their heads in the sand about what is right for their dogs, be they young or old.

There's an elderly, obese, extremely lame dog that gets pushed past my house in a pram or lifted along the street on yoga bands and it brings me to tears.

 

[fiwen30]

There's an elderly, obese, extremely lame dog that gets pushed past my house in a pram or lifted along the street on yoga bands and it brings me to tears.

Christ. I follow a dog buggy page on fb, with the idea that I might get my lad some sort of trailer for if we go camping or to beach days, just to space out his time hooning around, without one of us having to sit out with him. But it is difficult to look past the all too frequent ‘my dog went off his legs, so we’re looking for a buggy’ posts.

Partner’s parents can’t lift their heavy golden in or out the car boot, and the poor thing was showing increasing reluctance to jump out (I wonder why!). We lent them our 2m ramp, but it’s never been used as he ‘doesn’t like it’. What they actually mean is, they don’t understand how to teach him to use it. To my knowledge, they’re just struggling onward and geeing him up for the jump, which he’s doing with increasing difficulty because he is a Good Boy, but he really shouldn’t have to.

They’re not bad people, but active, supported ageing is still such an unknown/unspoken thing in pet ownership.

 

[skinnydipper]

I don't get why people delay starting their dog on pain relief for arthritis, what are they waiting for? When additional drugs need adding in its because the disease has progressed not because the owner has given the meds every day.

 

[Moobli]

Regarding pups and exercise I’ve never really subscribed to the 5 min rule for free running on soft surfaces but more for “forced” exercise (ie on a lead) on hard surfaces like roads and pavements. My pups are rarely on a lead unless it’s in a village or town for socialisation purposes and then we sit and observe rather than walk. I don’t let them do a lot of chasing a ball, nothing overly repetitive, and don’t let them run and play fight with adult dogs.
If they can’t use their bodies freely, running and jumping etc, how are they supposed to build the muscle that actually protects and stabilises the joints. I think to allow them to self regulate and build muscle and strength proportionate to their size as they grow is beneficial.

 

[IrishMilo]

I've never followed this rule either. It's a great article.

 

[blackcob]

In a similar vein to people letting their young dogs rag without a thought for their futures, it really grinds me when people let their old dogs age, without any additional support.

Sensitive topic for me as I've one arthritic old codger and not long lost another with declining mobility, but having experienced it is why it absolutely enrages me that people can sit by and watch their old dogs suffer without at least exploring the options available. I really don't understand the reluctance to initiate pain relief medication for arthritis - people seem to want to muck about with any and all turmeric and herbal nonsense even when their dogs are crippled with pain, and house or exercise modification never seems to come into it, despite there being really good resources out there now (CAM etc.)

My kitchen looks ridiculous as it's covered end to end in ex-commercial rubber backed mats (we call it the arthritis runway) but at least my old girl can get herself about with dignity.

 

[fiwen30]

Sensitive topic for me as I've one arthritic old codger and not long lost another with declining mobility, but having experienced it is why it absolutely enrages me that people can sit by and watch their old dogs suffer without at least exploring the options available. I really don't understand the reluctance to initiate pain relief medication for arthritis - people seem to want to muck about with any and all turmeric and herbal nonsense even when their dogs are crippled with pain, and house or exercise modification never seems to come into it, despite there being really good resources out there now (CAM etc.)

My kitchen looks ridiculous as it's covered end to end in ex-commercial rubber backed mats (we call it the arthritis runway) but at least my old girl can get herself about with dignity.

CAM is such a great resource, I only came across it when we first thought that my dog’s lameness was just arthritis, as opposed to a cruciate plus arthritis.

We also have arthritis runways! It’s a muddle of different rugs, some none slip, some with none slip pieces underneath, all of which are a nightmare to keep hoovered/clean when some animal inevitably throws up or poops on them! We’d just spent 2k on brand new laminate floor a few weeks before the cruciate diagnosis, and I know partner laments that we never get to see the floors. The rugs are a pain, but it’s better than having the dog slipping and hurting himself, not that he doesn’t still try.

Edit: so far off topic, sorry! But also that people don’t notice or appreciate that their other pets can become arthritic and need additional support with age. My vet frequently praises how well I manage our older cat, when she started struggling and being reluctant to make jumps, and had a change to her gait which indicated pain and arthritis. So she has her own little rugs for grip to get in and out of litter trays, and up onto her favourite perches.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

My kitchen looks ridiculous as it's covered end to end in ex-commercial rubber backed mats

Mine too.

 

[honetpot]

We bought our puppy hoping that it would be a non hyperactive breed, it a small lab/doodle, and is more like a lab. When he was small he would just mooch in the field three times a day, now he gets his mooch plus a mad half hour, play fights when the older will tolerate it and free access to the garden when its not raining. He sleeps most of the evening. Since we got him the RottiX has lost weight.
While no one would knowingly want to cause and animal injury through exercise, but if animals live in the moment, and suppressing their behavioural instincts may cause stress, and we seem to have a lot of dogs with poor socialisation and stress behaviours, the exercise to me is not a problem.