Puppy and the great (upstairs) unknown. Advice.

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I’ve been incredibly lucky with my little collie pup, he’s a super easy little dog in almost all respects but there are a couple of behaviours that I’m not sure how to manage as a novice dog owner. I would appreciate some views on what you would do if it was your dog. (He is 5 months old and spends Monday-Friday with OH at work and then weekends and the odd week at home where I live. At either place you can leave him in his pen or a room with no fuss, he doesn’t bite or chew and is a very laid back, well socialised, happy little dog).

1. I thought it was best if he didn’t have access to the upstairs as my stairs are very steep and on a twist for young joints, and I wanted the cats to have their own space away from him to sleep and eat. So I have a stair gate between the two. I spend 95% of my waking hours downstairs. But he gets incredibly stressed when anyone, including the cats, goes upstairs, or even touches the stair gate latch. Yapping yelping panting running up and down. At the moment I try not to make it a big deal, don’t acknowledge the dog until he’s quiet and I come back, and then don’t make a big fuss, just carry on. But he doesn’t seem to be improving and if anything gets more stressed about it each weekend he comes back. What else should I be doing? Should I tackle this differently? I have not found any food so far that he finds interesting enough to be distracted by. He is home with me for the next 2 weeks so I have time to work on it with him. Today I just stood for 10mins playing with the latch and going from one side of the gate to the other and back and he was quieter but not relaxed and I’m not sure how much to do with him each time.

2. Cars. He would like to chase them if allowed. Instead he flattens himself to the floor and freezes, but tries to do this even if in a car park or crossing a road. So far again, no toy or food or training that I have found or done so far is enough to overcome his car obsession/anxiety. What would you do?

I’m very keen not to make a mess of this sort of training as the car thing is for his safety and the stairs is just having a well adjusted non stressed dog who is easy to live with. He’s fab at everything else, very laid back, you can leave him to go outside, or in his crate up at the yard and he’s fine (and if we both go upstairs to bed and he’s in his pen he doesn’t make a peep, just goes straight to bed without a whimper).

Happy to hold my hands up and say I need a bit of help to make sure I don’t mess up.
 
I'd pop him in his pen and gradually expand how close thisis to you being at the stairs.
I'd consider diong my training near the gate- rewarding for a quite sit or down while I touched , then opened, then left the gate.
Hes young, he will learn. I would definitely persist and you are quite right stairs are better avoided for young pups

cars - start far away from the cars, go as close as the 'trigger point' to work out where it is then work backwards. sit with him in the boot (on the lead), boot open in a car park and read a book - long enough that he gets used to nothing killing him while cars drive past-I'd pick a quiet one!
 
He is a collie and is exhibiting frustrated collie behaviours. I have yet to see a collie walked round here that does not react negatively to cars! You need someone more collie orientated to help you I think, although distract/reward is ideal I can't think of anything, to a collie, that is more exciting than herding.
 
You are probably right about that, in that I think his frustration is also in wanting to herd the cats as well as the cars. It’s strange, compared to my old farm bred collie he appears to have zero herding instinct so far (she right from the start would do a wide arching outrun whenever she thought you were going to throw something for her and had a real collie eye, and never stopped moving, he works in straight lines and meanders along quite chilled out) but she had zero reaction to cars and he has this deep fixation with them so you can see the instinct isn’t completely buried.

My house has a tiny fenced front garden and then a parking bay between it and the road, I had wondered about sitting there with him on a lead behind the fence and just chilling through rush hour reading a book, but I’m not sure if that would flood him with too much (it’s a village but a rat run).

Or sheep in the back garden??!
 
what stimulation is he getting at home and on walks? from the little I know car chasing is a mixture of herding instinct and something to occupy a bored mind. Used to be a collie where my horses are who just got a brief run around the fields once a day so she started to resort to the 'fun game' of chasing cars when ever she got a chance. however, I appreciate it is hard to find something that is more exciting when they are in the zone!!! my collie likes treats but is not a foodie at all, if there is something else more exciting I could wave a whole chicken in her face and she would not want it. She does LOVE tennis balls for fetch, which she can become obsessed with, but I can use it to my advantage as she can be refocussed by me brining out the tennis ball! (I restrict use of it!)

at the moment he is very young and cars are a new exciting things, so it may be possible to just try and desensitise him to them, with plenty of walks on quiet streets trying to make cars boring!

other people are way more knowledgable than me and Im sure they will come along with some advice.

I did some 'skills and tricks' training with my collie to keep her mind occupied: you tube is also full of ideas. it also is useful for puppies as I know you have to limit exercise as they grow. I also have introduced a tiny bit of scent games, even just sprinkling kibble around the garden for her to hunt it. activating her nose rather than the herding drive.

stairs: I also do no dogs upstairs, but when we first got our collie she was very nervous and would literally howl if we went upstairs without her. We actually let her follow us upstairs briefly at first just so she could see where we went. then kept the stairgate shut and I would regularly pop up and down stairs all day so she eventually got over it! when ever we have been anywhere else, like my mums or grannys or more recently on holiday, she has been allowed up once to see where we have gone and then the staying downstairs rule in enforced. she was fine doing this in a completely new place we rented on holiday. its likes she has to know where we disappear to and then she is ok!
 
I try to make sure our time is always stimulating together, so if he isn’t asleep or on ‘settle down’ time and we are in playtime I try to make sure it is always interactive. He gets 1 ‘proper’ walk a day when home with me, going to different woodlands or footpaths, and we always add in a bit of training to each walk, so walking on lead with me, sit, stay, wait, ‘get it’ with sticks, recall, different surfaces and then we try to go somewhere afterwards where he can settle down but meet people, so usually a garden centre cafe. At home he gets stuffed kongs, all his food comes from a long wobbler or a bottle type toy so it entertains him, or from me when we are training. We are trying to find games to get him excited about a toy so we can use one as a distraction, so like you say having a special one that gets a little interactive play and then hidden away. I try to get him to wait whilst I throw one, or I go hide one and get him to find it, so he is busy without doing too much racing around on his joints. He also comes up to the yard when I can. We try to reinforce his training through the day with sitting and waiting at doors etc.

The only time he loses it is with going upstairs. Perhaps with some quiet consistency over the next 2 weeks he will improve.
 
are you taking him to training classes?

have a look at the book ‘crate games’ (also a dvd) which will teach you lots to do with him to improve his impulse control, also the book Ruff Love by the same author. In terms of finding a high value food - which is imperative - have you tried the garlic chicken I suggested? If thats not working try a tube of primula cheese and just squeeze out teeny bits, actually let him lick the end of the tube. You really need to start ’shaping’ behaviours and you need him to be motivated. Train when he is hungry, use one of his meals for training if needs be. Getting to grips with training as per above will give you the tools to address the issues you are having :)
 
For example this evening, I play/train with pup for 45mins in the garden. Come back in house, OH pops upstairs and pup goes straight into stress mode. OH comes down, goes out to Car and leaves pup watching him go from fenced patio and pup doesn’t make any fuss at all. I think it may be linked to the cats going upstairs more than me and OH in some ways, he is fascinated by them and they are not as impressed by him!
 
my collie cross has never been upstairs so cant help with that problem. she was reactive to cars when she was a puppy so when she tried to chase (obviously she was on the lead) i made her sit at the side of the road so she got used to the cars whizzing by. it didnt take more than 2 or 3 sessions for her to ignore them..i may just be lucky but she never showed any interest in cars from then on.
 
NeverEver said:
are you taking him to training classes?

have a look at the book ‘crate games’ (also a dvd) which will teach you lots to do with him to improve his impulse control, also the book Ruff Love by the same author. In terms of finding a high value food - which is imperative - have you tried the garlic chicken I suggested? If thats not working try a tube of primula cheese and just squeeze out teeny bits, actually let him lick the end of the tube. You really need to start ’shaping’ behaviours and you need him to be motivated. Train when he is hungry, use one of his meals for training if needs be. Getting to grips with training as per above will give you the tools to address the issues you are having :)
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Thanks. Yes he is going to classes and is a little star at them. I haven’t heard of those books (or hadn’t remembered), I am working my way through control unleashed and total recall. The chicken works brilliantly for everything apart from the cars and the upstairs so far.

The trainer did suggest working with a lunge line with fluttery/fluffy thing on the end so he has to practice his good behaviours with something fluttering quickly past him (to kind of mimic a cats movement I guess). I had forgotten about that suggestion, you have just reminded me. We were also told to try to get him obsessed with one toy, which we are working on now. He mostly doesn’t bother eating until the evening as he is very unfoody so I would say most of his training is done on an empty tummy. I’ll try the primula cheese. It’s finding that one food that means more to him.

I try to work on the impulse control by getting him to wait before chasing a toy, by running away from him or around him when he is in a stay, or doing press-ups, star jumps, pull ups and other random stuff when he is in a stay. Those bits he is doing well at.

Thank you all for the suggestions, I’m making notes!
 
splashgirl45 said:
my collie cross has never been upstairs so cant help with that problem. she was reactive to cars when she was a puppy so when she tried to chase (obviously she was on the lead) i made her sit at the side of the road so she got used to the cars whizzing by. it didnt take more than 2 or 3 sessions for her to ignore them..i may just be lucky but she never showed any interest in cars from then on.
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So maybe spending rush hours for the next 2 weeks sitting in my front garden isn’t such a bad idea. (Luckily I work flexible working hours so can plan days around puppy.)
 
To avoid the stress reaction to someone going upstairs, I would pop him into the crate every time someone goes up. He doesn't have to stay there long but he does need to learn that he doesn't need to stress about it. Perhaps he can wait in the crate until whoever went up comes back down and then gradually he can get used to someone else opening the crate before the one who went gets back. I find that so long as they are comfortable in the crate, which it sounds as if yours is, the crate is a very useful training tool.
 
I have taken the opportunity of having him at home with me to work on this stuff. Firstly I had to realise that whilst I do want to reinforce all his good behaviours, he also needed to learn the word no. So we had a very short period of tough love with regard to the stairs, making it clear that the hysterical jumping and crying and trying to squeeze through the stairgate wasn't what I wanted. Then I started to work on it whilst the cats were shut outside, so the miaowing one that makes him crazy didn't interrupt training. He is really good at sit and stay so I opened up the stairgate, left it open and then went through all the same steps as I did for teaching the stay. Moving up and down a stair at a time. I can now go all the way upstairs, sit on the bed and then come back down all without him moving from the bottom of the stairs, and without him yapping, all with the stairgate removed. So that is good progress! I need to solidify that training before I then add in distractions of stuff happening upstairs, like the cats shouting.

I have also recorded the cat miaowing, and have started to play it to me when she isn't around, rewarding him when he is calm about the noise. The other cat he is fine with, but she doesn't miaow and will also growl and belt him if he gets too big for his boots. My miaowing cat is far too sweet and gentle and just miaows and then runs from him, which sets him off chasing and getting excited. So I think some flirt pole work might help with that, ignoring things that move fast past him.

With the cars I have been sitting out on the drive behind the gate at rush hour and watching the cars. He forgot I existed for a while but after half an hour he got a bit bored and came over to sit with me and run through his commands. So I need to make the time to do this every day once or twice a day when I can, as I do think his reactivity reduced greatly over the half hour. If I can I will go out there for longer until he is completely switched off to them.

So progress is being made! Thank you all for your suggestions!
 
for the future BPP-if you wanted to use/uncover/give an outlet to any herding instinct there's a great thing called Treiball (controlled herding of gym balls). Even if you couldn't find a club nearby, there's loads of resources available for you to start yourself and you could start him quite young as its not about speed-think Quarrie started it at 7 months. Both of my play about with it a bit-they really have to concentrate and it tuckers them out.
 
Ooh treiball does sound like good fun for him. I’ve had a bit of a look on how to get started so might have a little play at home.

He’s been excellent with the flirt pole, I can whizz it around him and he wait until he’s told to get it. He’s actually getting better with the enigma cat too, he still gets very excited when he sees her but she isn’t running away so much, she’s getting more confident that although he is bouncy and annoying and over the top sometimes he doesn’t have any intent to cause her harm. So things are coming along and calming down.

One more question. I have a crate up at the yard but he really doesn’t like being in there. I think there are so many noises and sights that he gets frustrated and stressed. No stuffed king or chew is enough to entertain him. I wondered if, in your experiences, he would likely to be happier if I built him a run up there (with crate inside it) so he can have a bit more space to chase bugs etc, enjoy the sunshine? Do your dogs prefer it to a crate? Or is the crate better?
 
The little mutt in question.
29744870_10160081632700431_3313565544084703946_o.jpg
 
Thanks! He’s a real ‘disney’ dog. Like if I was to draw a dog for a Disney movie he would be it :) I’m looking forwards to seeing what your little girl looks like at 8 weeks (I always think that’s the cutest age!)
 
Me too :D not long now, 18 days

You should join Border Collies Rock on Facebook, he'll be very popular there. He looks very similar to a dog called Legacy who I follow, she reminds me of Woolfie in her attitude, full of joy and loving life.
 
I would stick to the crate, if he has a run you allow all sorts of repetitive behaviour to develop. We had a terrier bitch ( a rehome) who used to run in circles in the kennel run then jump off the kennel door and repeat. He is very gorgeous.
 
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