puppy hunting - what an eye opener!

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Ottinmeg

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I have recently started looking for a new puppy. The amount of people that have this , i have a boy and a girl so lets have pups and we're only asking £400 for them cos either mum or dad is pedigree but not KC registered,mentality is unbelievable! Do people really just see it as an easy way to make a quick quid??
It's been 8 years since i last bought a puppy (kc registered labrador) and he cost me £250 but the prices i have seen from reputable breeders also varies from between £500 up to £900 for a labrador pup, does the £900 pup poop gold or something or am i am just way off the mark with puppy prices nowadays?!
Anyway i have found a reputable breeder and am hopefully collecting new puppy on saturday once they have had their vet check on friday. The only problem is the breeder is a little over 100 miles away so pup will have a 2 hour drive back home. What is the best way to transport her. Shoving her in the footwell as someone suggested is not an option! will i need to take someone with me to sort her out, stop on the way home for whatever reasons etc etc ?
any advice appreciated
 
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I'd rather pay £5-700 for a quality pup who's parents have had all the health tests than a £200 pup who's parents have not.
Times have changed, we got a lovely female 12 years ago, good breeding, all health tests for £200. Our current two were £300 each.

Labs can be prone to hip and elbow dysplasia and having x-rays scored and rearing pups properly (vaccs, worming, chips, and tattooed/DNA'd as my dogs are)is not cheap so some people do have to cover their costs to ensure you get a pup who is a lot less likely to develop these conditions in later life.

If you (I mean, anyone :p) are going to pay £5-900 for an unregistered puppy from unproven, untested parents then you might as well go for a rescue because it will just as much of an unknown quantity and won't be fuelling irresponsible breeding for money.

Good breeding isn't just about showing or later breeding, it's about being able to look at a pedigree and say, well, this dog is good for X or I won't buy that pup because it is inbred on a dog which might produce Y.

I'd take a small crate or cat carrier with a blanket to put over it.
 
Yeah, new puppy, how lovely! You must post pics!

Safest thing is to pop her in a crate and have a passenger in the car who can sit next to her and re-assure her. Depending on the size, small puppies can fit in a cat carrier, just make sure you secure the seatbelt around the crate and it will be fine!
 
i know what you are saying, just thought £900 was a bit excessive even for a registered pup. I personally wouldn't pay 500 for an unregistered one but while people keep buying them then people will keep breeding them i guess! I was just amazed that when i googled labrador puppy all these ads came up as above and not a breeder in sight! lol
I actually found mine in the free ads and the breeders are reputable and have been breeding for 30 years and all there dogs are health tested,both parents can been seen etc etc.
Looking forward to it although i'm not sure what the current dog will make of the new addition and i'm sure the cats will be less then impressed! lol
 
Make very certain you do actually see and have a copy of the health tests done on the parents,if it is a lab. that means eye cert. hip score sheet and elbow scores as well.Certain breeds have tests specific to that breed,for instance bull terriers should have parents with certs for hearing/upc kidney function and heart testing cert as well,so in all cases you will have copies of the correct certs..and IN DATE..for both parents.That is the difference between good breeders and the rest. Best to go to a Kennel Club Accredited Breeder, then you can be absolutely sure the tests are done and the puppies well reared as well.
Yes,they will mostly be dearer than the rest..but without doing this you could well repent at liesure.
 
In New Zealand at the moment you pay way more for 'mutts' than for pedigrees. There is this fad for 'designer dogs', especially if they are small. Bichon/maltese crosses go for about $2000 (about a thousand pounds) which is INSANE as you can buy a pedigree for about half of that. My bernese puppies, fully registered by champ parents with full vet checks don't sell for that much!!!
 
Tell us about designer breeds, you will find quite a few of us on here moaning about them,bloomin ridiculous.
East Kent, whilst I agree with you about all the health tests, just wanted to say that someone being an Accredited breeder is not a guarantee pups will be healthy and well reared. Yes the KC ask for health tests, but as just one example they do not set a maximum hip score, therefore as long as a dog has been scored it can be bred from no matter how high the score. There is currently controversy on another forum re an AB who is breeding liver gsds (a non standard colour) and also using known epileptic lines.:(
 
There is also one of the scam registries signing up their own "accredited breeders" so you see obvious (if you know the signs) puppy farms selling under the heading "Accredited Breeder".

I was talking to someone last week who travelled 200 miles for a 3/4 bichon 1/4 shih tzu puppy - & paid £400.
She was moaning about the price for grooming and how often it needed doing.
 
s4sugar - That just reminds me about someone who said that Cocker Spaniels should be cheap to buy because "they don't tell you how often they need their coat clipping through their lives when you buy them". :rolleyes:
 
I too have been puppy searching and am finding loads of the following,

Pups are pedigree but not KC registered - we have mum and dad here

Boys are £900 - Girls £1250

I will only buy a pup who has all the health checks, is KC registered and mum n dad are KC registered.

Also localish so I can chose a pup, visit a couple of times before collection.

I had one breeder happy to deliver the pup to a service station for me to collect, :(

I don't want to encourage back street dealers who just do it for the money so won't buy from them.
 
The AB scheme? Agree with MM, East Kent, one of those Krazy Kolour breeders who is KC accredited has been standing a dog at stud with a hip score of 70 :( :( :( and other ABs have been using him.
There are also half brother/half sister matings going on, ARGH!!!!

And Black Horse on here has an epileptic, dysplastic poodle pup who she basically had to 'rescue' from an 'accredited' breeder.
 
I presume her parents were too FH, that's another good point to make, pups can only have accurate prelim hip/elbow scores from about 4/6 months and the real thing only after 12 months, if anyone tells you pups under this age have been x-rayed and have been given a BVA score, I'd be very suspicious indeed.

The BVA scheme (or SV in my case :p and the PENNHIPP scheme is now getting more popular) hip/elbow scoring scheme is the ONLY way to detect any sort of hip or elbow dysplasia in adult animals, vets don't have x-ray eyes and no amount of poking, prodding or rotation of the legs can determine such issues.

Ask the questions, ask to see plates and/or certificates of mum and/or dad if poss.
 
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Probably just the way you've worded it, but pup can't be tested for hips, elbows etc until 12 months, presume the breeders mean the parents are health tested. As EK says, they should have shown you the actual certificates, not just told you about them. Having said that I think hip and elbow scores are now shown on KC reg docs if they have been done.

Ets. Oops CC beat me to it.
 
The Kennel Club Accredited Breeder scheme means NOTHING. Any puppy farmer can joing after paying a fee of £15. No physical checks are done by the KC on the breeding premises or stock. Health checks are NOT compulsory, in fact not even asked for when registering litters.
 
What do people think of the Breed Warden scheme?
Would it be feasible for each breed's parent clubs to have such a person or persons? Where animals are recommended or not recommended for breeding through surveys/show results and health test results, DNA registration (IE at least the latter would be done clinically, not through personal preference), litters/kennels are visited regularly etc.
It would never catch on for the majority I'm sad to say but as a puppy buyer, you could look at two litters, one endorsed by a breed warden, the other not, and know one was perhaps offering more to the buyer and the breed than the other?
 
Well sorry to argue,but checks ARE made on ABS,I know cos we had one.MANY breeders have been ejected from the scheme as their facilities have not been up to scratch.Each of the purple envelopes given out with all the puppies paperwork also has a letter to send as feed back to the KC from the buyer..EVERY unsatisfactory comment is investigated! I would NOT be allowed to use a score 70 hip,and I`m very sure anyone would be jumped on from a great height if they did.IF you can verify this statement about one of the Scheme members..then please do contact Bill Lambert at the Kennel Club,feedback is what they need to make the AC title something of worth.Incidently ,be extremely careful about a breeder/dealer in Kent (labs) who claims to be "accreditted" and claims that "all kin are hip/eye and eye tested THEY ARE NOT. As I have said ..see the certs for yourself,and maybe acquaint yourself with what these certs look like and the pass numbers too.
It is a minefield out there,you could regret at your liesure.
 
As far as I know it already has been reported. At the end of the day, the KC will still register puppies from dysplastic, epileptic parents and the end product of very close inbreeding...where's the discouragement? And they have been flooded with complaints about it!

How and ever, if we're issuing warnings, can I urge people to stay away from websites advertising GSDs with the following:

If they have:
Pink, purple, sparkly backgrounds with animations and horrible music
Lots of cameo headshots of the dogs
Lots of use of 'moon' 'star' 'dream' 'bear' and a proliferation of Native American imagery in the kennel/affix/suffix names
Used words like 'cream' 'chiffon' 'champagne' 'chocolate' 'peach' to describe the pigment of their dogs

If they have NO:
KC reg names on the site, despite being 'accredited breeders' or say they are members of some registry with a funny name.
At least 3-gen pedigrees on display
Actual hip and elbow SCORES, not just mention of health tests/checks
 
I had a lengthy discussion with a member of staff on the AB stand at Crufts. She categorically stated that although ABs had to hip score (I'm talking GSDs here), they did not insist on a maximum score "as that would encourage people not to register and apply for AB status". I interpreted that as that would reduce their income.!
 
Yep,so I have just mailed Bill Lambert for an answer on that one,and will relay the answer .Fairly pointless not to be solid on important tests such as those.So what county are the sparkly GSD`S in ? Still firmly believe it is a good benchmark for a sound lab puppy though!
 
Check your PMs. Although I am aware Bill Lambert has been contacted on a number of occasions about dogs with high hipscores (and I mean approaching the top of the scale) being used at stud and I think the tone of his reply is that taking action against them would drive people out of the AB scheme :(
 
ottinmeg said:
i know what you are saying, just thought £900 was a bit excessive even for a registered pup. I personally wouldn't pay 500 for an unregistered one but while people keep buying them then people will keep breeding them i guess! I was just amazed that when i googled labrador puppy all these ads came up as above and not a breeder in sight! Lol
i actually found mine in the free ads and the breeders are reputable and have been breeding for 30 years and all there dogs are health tested,both parents can been seen etc etc.
Looking forward to it although i'm not sure what the current dog will make of the new addition and i'm sure the cats will be less then impressed! Lol
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perhaps you should publish the whole advert of the one you are/are`nt going to see,it is very distinctive wording is`nt it,just to warn off people,could save a lot of heartache for some.this one even had a thread all his own made up from heartbroken puppy buyers.
 
CaveCanem said:
Check your PMs. Although I am aware Bill Lambert has been contacted on a number of occasions about dogs with high hipscores (and I mean approaching the top of the scale) being used at stud and I think the tone of his reply is that taking action against them would drive people out of the AB scheme :(
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That was virtually what the lady on the AB stand said to me. They didn't want to place restrictions as they didn't want to discourage people from joining. I was intending to apply to AB scheme if I decide to have a litter from Evil, not sure though if its worth the paper its written on. Mind you would probably get turned down as don't have purpose built whelping kennel etc any more.
 
Well if you do it right,with hip scores below the mean average for the breed and all the paperwork in place then of course it is worth it.Whatever the bad reports the buying public still think it is "a cut above";as for the scheme itself,I know it is slowly going to get sharper teeth and of quite a few,known to myself,who have been ejected.Personally I am rather pleased to be part of it ,as I am a firm believer in health testing properly and producing healthy long lived puppies.If this is the only "Kite Mark" we have in dog breeding so far ..well so be it. Breed Wardens? NO thanks..too much like the way they breed in Germany..think we are far too independent minded in UK for that to be a way forward.
 
Patches said:
s4sugar - That just reminds me about someone who said that Cocker Spaniels should be cheap to buy because "they don't tell you how often they need their coat clipping through their lives when you buy them". :rolleyes:
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Cocker Spaniels should be cheap to buy so you have money left for all the vets bills, and bribing people to keep quiet after their picnics have been trampled into the dust and eaten:D
 
I know you are right East Kent, but when you hear of ABs who really don't seem to give a damn it is disheartening.
I'm not sure if I would be keen on Breed Wardens either, in principle yes, but knowing how bitchy some of the breeders are about each other not sure how one could find totally independent people to be wardens. Maybe I should volunteer for the job as I am no longer involved in the show scene.:p
 
EAST KENT said:
Breed Wardens? NO thanks..too much like the way they breed in Germany.
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As you can probably tell, I don't have a problem with that :p :D
A lot of us are pretty much breeding like they breed in Germany now anyway (well, not that I breed :p)
IMO Scandinavian countries have the best system, they also do spine x-rays which I believe are important.
 
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