Puppy-RAW or not to RAW?

[MotherOfChickens]

Sorry, I asked this in the stickier thread but not had a reply and am impatient

So, proud owner of 11 week old pup (GR) who is currently on Purina. I would like to get him on to RAW-not least as I have a freezer full of RAW from DAF that I bought for the dog that I lost a couple of weeks ago. I know some isn't suitable for him but I do have many packs of minces (game and lamb tripe; beef and tripe , minced oily fish, minced fish, whole sprats, minced duck, a box of assorted lamb bones and many knuckle joints, some pork ribs and a load of NM complete lamb meals as well as 10kgs of butchers mince and any amount of eggs.).

I won't be doing anything straight away if its not recommended, I am nervous of doing this and won't do it if not sure after asking anyone that will talk to me about it.

Some questions:

Should I start him sooner rather than later?

I know I should not feed RAW and kibble together, he's currently on 3 meals a day-how would that work?

Vegetables-could I just get the NM veg nuggets and add one/two of them in a day or are the tripe mixes adequate? Last two dogs have loved the carrot and parsnip mash you can get-the only thats steamed only with no butter? (yes, I am that lazy!)

An I better off going for something like Natures Instinct? I've had good results with adult dogs with Nature's Menu but I know some don't rate it.

What about bones-would pork ribs be ok? lamb breast bones?

Any tips? (help!!! please )

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Purine contains carcinogenic E numbers. They're the ones that make Bakers.

Raw, yes, do it. Start with one protein eg turkey or chicken, for a week or so, chicken necks if you can get them plus breast, wings-hold the tips so the pup can't 'inhale' them and bash them up with a hammer first.

Kibble and raw can be fed together although I would split feeds, so 2 kibble, 2 raw if the pup is on 4 meals still. Will message you a handy page.

 

[Dobiegirl]

When we got our Lancashire Heeler as a puppy we put her straight on to the raw diet, she thrived and we never had an upset tummy.

I have a lovely photo of her running around with a pigs trotter at a young age but unfortunately its on my other laptop which has gone kaput.


At the moment (she is now 5 years age ) she is on kibble in the morning and raw in the evening, sometimes she has forthglade which I really rate.

I often give the dogs fruit as well as raw carrots and broccoli stalks as a treat.

 

[Aru]

I suspect this may not make me popular but........ I'd be going with a high quality large breed puppy complete food.

I like raw for adult dogs
(I do still think its got its drawbacks which raw fans love to shout down and pretend aren't an issues which I find makes me a bit wary...everything has a potential consequence and risk acknowledging this makes it easier to minimise the risks and reduce the chances of issues) but I do appreciate it suits a lot of dogs...
but I am not a fan for puppies,especially in the large breeds that are more prone to joint disorders.

Golden retrievers are large dogs who do grow a lot in that first year. The calcium/phosphorus balance and protein control can be a bit tricky for these pups and when it goes wrong the effects can be lifelong.
You would be very unlucky to cause a nutritional issue as to see clinical signs it would have to be severe but its a risk I would not be willing to take the risk personally.

Get him fully grown. Feed him a base of a decent complete food. Feed bones etc as occasional treat,they are great for the teeth and then when he's mature and theres less potential risk of structural issues..changeover gradually to raw if thats what you want to feed.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Golden retrievers are large dogs who do grow a lot in that first year. The calcium/phosphorus balance and protein control can be a bit tricky for these pups and when it goes wrong the effects can be lifelong.
You would be very unlucky to cause a nutritional issue as to see clinical signs it would have to be severe but its a risk I would not be willing to take the risk personally.

this is kind of my thinking tbh hence the nerves and thanks for the input.

Thanks also to CT (I would still appreciate the page for info) and Dobiegirl. If he wasn't a larger breed I'd maybe consider it further. I do like RAW and should we get another adult rescue (and we've been successfully home checked for two breed rescues now ) then hopefully that one can go onto RAW as Quarrie will once he's older.

Still, want him on something better and on the whole, I am not a dry food fan. I've not tried Millie's Wolfheart, Orijen or Acana though so happy for suggestions/recommendations for other good dried food or wet although am thinking wet would get quite faffy.

 

[Dobiegirl]

With our Lancashire Heeler pup we also bought some kibble as my daughter would take her off for weekends and holidays so we went with Origen which was one of the best foods at the time, she hated it so we changed to fish4dogs which she loved.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

The only difference between many brands of puppy versus adult kibble is the protein level-half to one percent in some cases. Go look at the dozens of brands available in say Pets at Home. The only issue to consider for puppies is the phosphorus level according to a qualified nutritionist. I don't think many brands differentiate. I see no reason to feed puppy food and large breed food I just don't get when there is no difference between the ingredients/protein levels.

Food like Orijen is far higher in protein than raw but is generally highly recommended.

Re joints, testosterone helps the growth plates to close more swiftly so perhaps neutering should be more closely considered than food.

I've gone right off Fish4dogs since they moved their manufacturing to China and added in a tonne of pea flour. Wainwright's Fishmonger has more fish in it.

There is ready made raw (is it Natural Instinct?) which is allegedly well-balanced. Have a look at Rodney Habib on Facebook for raw ideas/reasoning.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

He'll not be neutered (if at all) until he's fully matured-vet totally supportive of that.

I have looked at Natural Instinct and Nature's Menu. Both of their puppy food seems to contain chicken-I'm not against feeding some chicken but not all the time. Cynically I think chicken is just a cheap ingredient for these companies. I have looked at some of the labels to see why something constitutes puppy food and drawn a blank but I am anxious to do better by this dog diet wise than my last one.

Orijen and Acana seem to be mostly expensive due to paying for organic, free range, gold nugget fed chicken/narwhal/ unicorn from the Rockies and the Arctic which is admirable but not sure I want to pay for it.

I'm still looking around-have some samples of Millie's Wolfheart to try.

 

[SusieT]

I personally wouldn't feed raw, especially not to a pup who are have less immunity to disease- no matter how you look at it raw has an increased risk of disease, although the prepacked stuff seems better than 'raw' 'raw' , if I was determined I'd wait til the dog was older, and just feed a high quality dry until then

 

[Cinnamontoast]

You're right, there is virtually no difference between puppy and adult food, a big fat marketing myth in most cases, just like the whole different breed foods.

Orijen is possibly top range kibble, but is still a processed food. My two younger springers were weaned onto Pedigree Puppy, horrible (IMO), rapidly switched to Orijen then swapped to raw quite soon after this. I made mistakes and gave too much liver and fish, it wasn't pretty!

Their current diet consists of:
Green tripe
Chicken (carcasses, wings, drumsticks, thighs, necks, mince)
Raw eggs
Liver
Kidneys
Pluck
Lamb
Beef
Natural yoghurt
Turkey
Pig trotters
Herring/sprats/salmon trimmings
Salmon oil
Green lipped mussel supplement
Occasional trays of Wainwright's

Tonight they had ends of steak, a chip each and they have pigs' ears every night.

 

[druid]

My pups start on Acana and add raw mince (I feed both together with no issue). As they get older I reduce the proportion of dry and increase the raw. I continue to include Acana for when we travel. I wean on to raw mince also with pups.

Check on bern pet foods in the special offer section they had a lot of short dated (feb of next year!) Acana and Orijen a while ago when I stocked up.

 

[Brownmare]

I can understand why you are being cautious. I was very nervous about starting with raw especially with a new puppy but it was easier than I expected. I started by using ready made for the first couple of months then got gradually more adventurous, always being careful to keep to the recommended ratios. The only real problem I have is I struggle to get her to eat fish so she gets salmon oil every other day now.

Compared to my last puppy who was kibble fed I would say her growth has been steadier and her coat is practically reflective it is so shiny!

One thing that helped me relax a bit was realising there is a huge difference between not ideal and deficiency. If you listened to all the scaremongering you would wonder how any wild canids make it to adulthood!!

 

[MotherOfChickens]

those are god prices druid, thanks.

Brownmare-I would for a pre made RAW but I need to continue with a dried food for when he comes to work with me so still thinking about it all. Having so much fun with him this week

 

[paulineh]

My 2 rescue Springer's came to me being fed RAW so they have stayed on RAW. When I got my 8 week old puppy she was fed on Kibbles so the day after I started her on Raw. She is now nearly 5 months and is thriving. They are all working dogs.

I feed Natural Instinct.

I will be getting 2 more Springer Pups next year and they will also be on RAW from day 1