Puppy toilet training issue your thoughts

[setterlover]

Our Irish Setter pup is now 18weks old ( got him at 9 weeks) we have a 2 year old red setter same breeder same bloodlines.We have had 7 pups over the years all setters)
The 2 year old is a joy although recall a bit hit and miss!
Puppy has been good to train and to toilet train ( the odd accident but nothing major)
He is really good to train his recall is spot on and he pees and poos outside just fine.We crate trained him from day one and he loves his crate as a safe comfortable 'den'
We have started to leave the crate door open overnight the last few days and he has been fine for a few days but today when I got up he had pooed and pee'd in the dining room .
It looked to be very recent it was 7.30am just getting light.
He normally goes as soon as I let him out I get up when I hear him stirring.(when in his crate he will tap the door often around ,7am)
I heard nothing do I consider this a one off do I go back to shutting the crate overnight ,do I set my alarm for 7 am as he apears to need to go at that time?
He is really good overnight no chewing nothing damaged and just seems to either settle down with the 2 year old or go into his crate with the door open.
A really easy pup in so many ways but don't want to set this up as a habit.
Any thoughts?

 

[Spanny]

I'm sure more experienced people will be along soon, but with both of our two pups we only really had accidents indoors when we'd missed their signals and/or hadn't been quite on time with a toilet break. So the earlier morning toilet break sounds like a good idea to me. As you say, hopefully that will stop it from becoming a habit.

 

[Clodagh]

Keep the crate shut.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Echoing Clodagh, keep him in the crate then pop him straight out. I took my time to get rid of the crates with my current youngsters.

Out of interest, what time do you go to bed? At the weekend, I’ll get up when I wake up and let everyone out and do breakfast between 5.30-6 then go back to bed.

 

[setterlover]

We go to bed at 11.30 pm.At 11.15 I take both dogs down to our indoor school (floodlit) so they can poo and pee and stretch their legs before going to bed.(obviously I pick up poo)
Pup usually does a long pee and poos the 2 year old just pees.
We are lucky as the indoor sand school means they have somewhere dry and under cover to exercise and for toilet when the weather is bad.

 

[Chucho]

They're all so different. I was surprised how long our girl took to be really solid this time around, compared to the boys she was really really slow.

As above, I think I'd just take it as them saying they're not ready for the responsibility of an open door or to hold it quite so long yet. So I'd close the door and also get up a bit earlier for a pee break too. Can always put them back to bed again afterwards.

 

[setterlover]

Thanks everyone.Think I will shut the crate tonight and make sure I am up at 7 am to get them out.
I can take them into the school as it's not really light enough to let them into the garden until 7.30.
He so loves being with the 2 year old I felt it would be nice for them to be together overnight but as you say maybe a bit soon.

 

[Moobli]

Did it work?
It sounds like he’s used to going to the loo as soon as he wakes so keeping him shut in his crate a while longer does seem the most straightforward form of action for now.

 

[setterlover]

Yes it worked got up at 7.10 he was fine waiting in his crate to go out .Took them both down to the indoor sand school where they both pee'd but strangely no poo.Left them in the school while I quickly got the horses in (just alongside took 5 minutes) then leads on and a walk around our big hay field where he did an enormous poo (2 year old also pooed as he always does)
It was about 7.45 when he pooed so he obviously wasn't desperate.
Will carry on with the crate shut for a while at least generally I crate overnight until at least 6 to 9 months old but this guy is so calm and not a chewing stuff other than his toys I thought he could have time out with the 2 year old.
Still they are all different!

 

[Moobli]

Glad it worked. As you rightly say, they’re all different so best to be led by the individual.
I haven’t used a crate for my last two pups but definitely would bring it back out if needed.

 

[K9YLA]

Never be in a hurry to outsource the crate , its one of your best tools for puppy training for not only toilet training but separation anxiety. I've seen far to many people make the mistake of removing the crate to early . Some dogs do learn quicker but in all honestly I don't advise gradually outsourcing the crate until atleast the 2 year mark and then making sure it's done correctly

 

[setterlover]

I wasn't intending to get rid of the crate completely just keep it open.It's useful at meal times as pup is a bit of a hoover and I feed him in the crate as he will steal the 2 year old's food who is much less of a hoover.Also pup goes in the crate when we eat (the 2 year old is brilliant about our food and shows no interest) where I'm sure pup would as very good orientated.
The 2 year old used a crate until he wad about 20 months old.
All fine now overnight and is waiting to go out when I get up though he isn't in a hurry to poo and it's often 19/15 minutes after he gets out before he goes.

 

[K9YLA]

I would say the time to leave the crate dog open to test his response should not be on a night when you go to bed ( it's a long period to start allowing some freedom and he knows his strict routine first thing is the toilet , so if nobody os there he will do his business otherwise he won't in the crate its the crate making him hold that little longer ( he is obs a clean puppy) you will undoo potentially all you good work toilet training. Chose a time when you just leave the house for just ten minutes randomly and repeatedly

 

[Clodagh]

I would never expect a dog to need crating until 2 years old.

ETA not aimed at @setterlover !

 

[setterlover]

At present the crate is open most of the time (except his meal times and our meal times)
Pup will often choose to sleep in there after he had been out for a play with the 2 year old.with the door left open.
The 2 year old had the crate available but not shut from about 16 months to 20 or so months it was available as a safe space if he felt he needed it but open.

 

[K9YLA]

At present the crate is open most of the time (except his meal times and our meal times)
Pup will often choose to sleep in there after he had been out for a play with the 2 year old.with the door left open.
The 2 year old had the crate available but not shut from about 16 months to 20 or so months it was available as a safe space if he felt he needed it but open.

Them I would say definitely don't leave it open at bed time or all your toilet training will come undone

 

[K9YLA]

Sadly I have to deal with alot of dogs where the crate was removed far to soon and once you do that it's very hard to turn back. Some dogs cope fine but more don't

I would never expect a dog to need crating until 2 years old.

ETA not aimed at @setterlover !

 

[setterlover]

He is very bright and a clean pup .His recall is amazing for 19 weeks and he will leave the other dog if I call him to me when out on our fields.
He seems to have settled into 3 poos a day first thing around 2 pm and around 8 to 9 pm.
I have reverted to closing the crate when I go to bed that seems to work and keep him clean.
Thanks everyone.