Puppy training who's not interested in food!

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Lucy_Nottingham

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I have a 4mnth (nearly 5) old border collie puppy. He is awesome, and lovely, but training him is a bit of a pain in the butt! He is (almost) house trained, he has an accident if I don't notice him at the door sometimes (my fault though) and he can do sit (when he pays attention) and we are starting to get sorted on down (kind of!)

However, as he is growing up he is becoming less food orientated (and he wasn't very to begin with) so now I am concerned as I would love to let him off the lead. However, the few times I have he has not run off, but won't come close enough to let me put the lead back on him.... and once he ran off to play with another dog and would not return, no matter what! so now all off lead privaledges have gone, and its extendible lead for now!

Does anyone have any advice on how I can sort this out? or how to start training him off the lead? or am I trying to do too much too early?
He is also quite mouthy, and nips at pants, dressing gowns.... everything! How can I sort this too, cause shouting he ignores, and iv tapped him on his nose a few times, and he acts like Iv beaten him to death (which I never would!)

Any help would be appreciated as this is my first puppy!
 
Border Collies are very easy to get to recall..mine was a tennis ball fiend and loved to play fetch with his all day long. I would suggest just throwing it and having him bring it back, doing that a few times, then make him sit, put his lead back on walk a few paces, take it off and play again....then he won't think of having it put on as the end of his play session (and therefore not come).
Re the rest, diversion tactics mostly. If he mouths you you should yelp as if he has broken your arm - same as his litter mates would have done.
Border Collies are so amazingly bright and intelligent I would never have another one, it was like living with my dad - he knew my routine better than I did and would leap up practically tapping his watch at bedtime to tell me I should go up now please lol...loved him to pieces though.
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I have had 2 terriers in the past and currently have 3 labradors, and 2 of my labs are 5months. I must say I have always let my dogs/pups off the lead from day one, because the longer you leave that, the minute they are free, they dont want to go back on the lead. My oldest lab Jess who is 2 has never been on a lead in her life and is the most obedient dog I have ever had.
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I know what you mean by a dog thats not interested with food, my terrier didnt like food or treats, she had no interest in it and used to chew everything she could get her teeth into, it took 4 years for her to grow out of it, she was quite difficult to train, luckily I have always had an older dog which helps train the younger ones.
At the moment my 2, 5month old pups have learnt so much from my older one. Have you tried taking out a treat like fresh meat or cheese, its more appealing than dog treats & I carry a whistle too, and when I blow it they come, sometimes I carry treats and sometimes not, but they always know to come to it.
Good luck with your puppy, they do try your patience sometimes, I am having trouble with one of my pups demolishing the house at mo, 1 is ok and 1 is really bad, she is house trained and very obedient, but turns the house upside down when I leave, I have got her a cage and she is brilliant now!!!
 
When I got my lurcher many pointy dog people warned me a lot of them are not that into food rewards, at least not enough to make them attractive when there's something more interesting going on!
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A lot of them also don't care enough about toys to make that another option. Mine is interested in things that squeak but again, not if there's something better to do. He was quite tricky to put a recall on and I still have to be careful. He NEVER runs off but I can see it cross his mind not to come straight back if, especially if he's excited.

What has worked best for me is finding a treat he does like and giving it ONLY for recall. Commercial treats were a non-starter so I went with chicken or cheese or, most successfully, treats I make myself (yes, I'm that sad!) from real meat. When he was younger I tried to take him out to work on his recall when he was a bit hungry, especially if it was likely to be somewhere there might be other dogs, squirrels etc. I've met quite a few dogs whose owners were convinced they wouldn't take treats who will stick around for the homemade ones.

We also had issues in that he would come for me but not my partner. I just had to pull back a bit when we were all together and not always be the one to call him back, especially if he didn't come right away, and he soon figured out we both meant it.

I'll say, even now at just over a year, I always take some sort of treat with me. The trainer I went to for puppy class, who has trained lurchers successfully for obedience and agility, recommended always making it worth his while. He has a very good recall and would likely come without the reward but I'd rather not take the chance. I also try to call him randomly when we're walking but not so often he gets fed up. Sometimes he gets a treat, sometimes he just gets a scratch. I suspect a border collie might be easier though, as they're bred to be a lot more focused on what people want.

It really does take some patience and it's hard not to think you're doing something wrong when it doesn't work perfectly but it will come, I'm sure. You'll just have a few more grey hairs at the end of it.
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I'd also say bite the bullet and do the work now, however inconvenient, stressful and time consuming it can be. The longer you leave it the harder it will be. Make sure he does get some socialisation. A couple of times when I let mine off to play (in a controlled area) he got told off by other dogs - deservedly so - and that probably did him much more good than anything I could have done. All of a sudden I looked a more attractive pack, I suspect.
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I didn't put him in danger but I did recognise I would have to take some risks and let him have those experiences if he was going to learn. Just do everything in steps and don't be tempted to jump ahead but keep asking the questions in easy, puppy ways then gradually ask harder ones.

Good luck and have fun. In a few months when he comes flying across a field towards you with his ears up this will all seem very worthwhile.
 
puppies react to LOTS of praise and enthusiasm. I think its almost better if they aren't food orientated as otherwise its almost impossible to recall away from food!!! YOU have to be the reason he comes back.

i'd use toys- border collies tend to be obsessive so u can use tennis balls, tuggy toys etc and the fun bit is getting to play with you!!

if you recall and don't get a response don't be afraid to be silly- jump up and down, run in the opposite direction.. puppies love it!
 
I definitely agree on the play/you being the reward for coming back to you. If you are concerned about going off lead then find an enclosed area (tennis court?) to get your confidence up with the recall, and to build up the play with him. At the end of the day you want your dog to want to work for YOU not food, so you need to be the most fun person for your dog to play with- YOU are the reward for correct response and behaviour!!!
 
Thank you, I think I agree and will have to use cheese and chicken for treats (as they are the only things he will actually make an effort for!) with toys and fetch......... he generally herds them, as in chases gets them, and then places them and watches them till you get there, but he is getting much better at this now, if you ignore him he will (eventually) bring the toy to your feet!
I get the idea of you being the prize for return as well, but..... as well as not being overly food orientated, he is not 100% human orientated either, he is not fussed about having a scratch etc, except at the times when he wants one! (my CAT is more cudly than him sometimes!)
But it is all improving, I was thinking of using long lining to try to improve recall in the park etc? as he does just find other animals SO much more interesting than me or anything i have to offer! and he has been socialised since day 1!
Maybe I just need to think a bit harder about what makes him tick..... damn puppy not having a manual!
 
I think that's the thing, to see him as an individual and do what works for him and for you.

Mine sounds very similar - a lovely friendly dog, but fairly self-contained. I actually really like that about him, as it means he's confident in new situations, adaptable, relaxed with other dogs, and not inclined to be clingy. He's very quick to pick things up but I have to show him what's in it for him.
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It's just like horses (which is what I do for a living). Sure, there are standards and generalisations but mostly what they teach you is to never say "always" or "never"! And it's not all about the horse, different people and different situations require different approaches sometimes. Many roads lead to Rome.

Don't be put off by people telling you how your dog *should* be, just make sure you're getting the work done that you need to to make him a good citizen. My spaniel was so soft she'd do anything just to please. My husky x was a lovely dog but independent to a fault and even food wouldn't necessarily get her attention. The current lurcher is somewhere in the middle. I don't think I've done anything radically different, in fact I knew the least when I had the arguably easiest to train one! Dogs aren't a blank slate any more than horses are. Or people for that matter. Just keep the goals in mind and don't get too bogged down thinking if you don't do it one particular way it's going to be wrong.
 
well we went for a walk today and we were (starting) to get the hang of fetch the tennis ball (on the lead), then we turned the corner, there were 2 other dogs, and he nearly strangled himself trying to go see them, I will always let him go meet new dogs (within reason!) but I need him to listen to me when they are around, cause if he is off the lead, and a big slobbering hungry looking rottie comes at him teeth bared, I want to be able to say come here! And have him here (and in one piece!) but at the moment, I am starting to lose my mind as to how to achieve this!
so...
I have got a pro in to do some 1-2-1 session with us! hopefully this will shed some light! hopefully will for the price of it!
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