Puppy vaccinations

[Moobli]

I haven’t discussed with my usual vet their vaccination protocol as yet (will do later today) but I’ve heard so many horror stories about Lepto4 that I’m very reluctant to have it. Hopefully my vet will use Lepto2 or I might shop around. There seem to be various regimes re : vaccines at different practices and I’m interested in what others have found.

What age is considered the optimum for administration of the first jag (as I’ve read if it’s too early the immunity from the bitch will cancel it out).

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Hi, congrats on your new pup. Quarrie had his first jag at 10 weeks and second at 14weeks-but I didnt pick him up until nearly 10 weeks. Fitz (fwiw) had the Lepto 2 and I put him on Lepto4 the next year, 2 jaggs 3-4 weeks apart. My practice had changed Lepto4 brands between times due to supply issues so Quarrie was redone this year, 2 jaggs again to switch him over. No issues in either dog whatsoever. The only time I would think twice in the Lepto4 is if I had an older dog or one with existing issues after doing a lot of reading on it.

 

[blackcob]

Mine will be having DHP+L4 at 8 weeks and same again at 12 weeks. The adult dogs have been receiving annual L4 for a few years now and I've no concerns about its safety.

 

[Clodagh]

Tawny was ill last year after the L4 but the vet talked me into doing it again this year (different supplier but he said that shouldn't make any difference) and she was fine, so go figure!
Shamefully I have no idea which one Spanner had as her vaccination card has vanished along with the phantom registration papers.

 

[twiggy2]

My pup will have L2 this week at 9weeks old and again in 3-4 weeks.
After 14 years in vets reception (leaving a few months ago) I won't be having the L4 even if I have to shop around to avoid it, 2 of the vets who I trust most of all won't use it on their own dogs as they don't feel it has been around long enough to prove itself safe, there were also a fair few issues that we saw that could have been down to the L4.
My pup will also be jabbed in the thigh not over the shoulders/lower neck.

 

[Clodagh]

My pup will have L2 this week at 9weeks old and again in 3-4 weeks.
After 14 years in vets reception (leaving a few months ago) I won't be having the L4 even if I have to shop around to avoid it, 2 of the vets who I trust most of all won't use it on their own dogs as they don't feel it has been around long enough to prove itself safe, there were also a fair few issues that we saw that could have been down to the L4.
My pup will also be jabbed in the thigh not over the shoulders/lower neck.

Interesting Twiggy, and makes me think.

 

[blackcob]

If we're using anecdata I also work in a veterinary practice that must do 30+ L4 vaccs a day...!

 

[TheresaW]

Both of ours have had the L4 with no problems. We also use Bravecto for fleas and ticks which apparently kills dogs.

 

[paddy555]

I haven’t discussed with my usual vet their vaccination protocol as yet (will do later today) but I’ve heard so many horror stories about Lepto4 that I’m very reluctant to have it. Hopefully my vet will use Lepto2 or I might shop around. There seem to be various regimes re : vaccines at different practices and I’m interested in what others have found.

What age is considered the optimum for administration of the first jag (as I’ve read if it’s too early the immunity from the bitch will cancel it out).

For DHP 16 weeks as by then mother's antibodies have gone. You then only have to do 1 injection for DHP. The nobivac DHP leaflet says you can do it with just one injection from 12 weeks but my vet told me to wait till 16 weeks to be sure MDA's have gone. Merlyn was done at 17 weeks for DHP.

Merlyn is not done for L2 or L4 and will not be done. There are 2 initial lepto injections and then it has to be repeated annually. Have a look at the facebook group "Nobivac Lepto 4 our experiences" before you decide what to do. It seems from there Lepto 2 is not much better.

When Chris Hazell did M's pedigree she spoke to me on the phone and I asked about Lepto as it seemed there could be a lot of hype about it but her comment was no lepto. She referred me to Katrina Stephens who spent a lot of time explaining why she only did 1 parvo vaccination and def. no lepto.

I spent many hours researching vaccinations and some of it was not good reading.

 

[paddy555]

Both of ours have had the L4 with no problems. We also use Bravecto for fleas and ticks which apparently kills dogs.

Working GSD. I also looked into this as well and def. no bravetco for Merlyn. I was told by the breeder not to uuse Nexguard. One of the earlier litter had used it and pup had to be rushed to vet as it reacted so badly.

 

[rara007]

We have lepto in the area (and my dog loves a ditch) so it's a no brainer of an L4 for mine.

 

[SusieT]

Do you trust your vet? If so have a sensible conversation with them and ask them what their advice would be. It's going to be far more evidence based than facebook or 'online reports'.

 

[Moobli]

Thanks all. After discussing with dog owning friends I did expect a wide range of views. I’m going to discuss with my vet and get their perspective before making a decision.

 

[Clodagh]

Thanks all. After discussing with dog owning friends I did expect a wide range of views. I’m going to discuss with my vet and get their perspective before making a decision.

I think I would get it done on a pup tbh, overall the risk of an adverse reaction seems smaller than the risk of contracting lepto. Will be interesting to see what your vet thinks.

 

[paddy555]

Do you trust your vet? If so have a sensible conversation with them and ask them what their advice would be. It's going to be far more evidence based than facebook or 'online reports'.

all the vets in our area give the same advice and their only interest seems to be to sign up every dog on their books to their "health program" ie for X amount a month by DD you get annual boosters, regular flea treatment and worm treatment. I have sat in a vet's waiting room listening to their staff calling up the dog owners on their books to try and persuade them to sign up to the package. A nice little earner for vets. To my mind however that is not vets giving advice on the individual circumstances of each pet. We don't just worm our horses. We see if they have a problem and worm only if needed. Why treat a dog for fleas with a chemical that kills fleas without making sure it has them. The WSAVA suggests boosters every 3 years (DHP not lepto) so why are vets so desperate to vaccinate annually. Why not titre and then boost if needed.

 

[planete]

The vets vaccinate annually but I know ours do not give a booster for all the covered diseases every year. If you look at your record card, the labels affixed should be slightly different according to which diseases are covered each year. Personally I take the small risk of vaccinating as per vet's advice as he knows which diseases are active in my area and the more animals are vaccinated the less the risk of an epidemic taking hold. Non vaccinated animals benefit from the lack of an infectious environment created by all the other vaccinated animals. Measles epidemics have started again in regions were people decided not to vaccinate and allowed it to spread instead of being limited to a few individuals. Far more people have been damaged in these areas than would have been by a reaction to the vaccine.

 

[druid]

To add to the Anecdata - seen literally thousands of L4 injections, no reactions. Have seen three dogs in for independent post mortem query vaccine reactions, all three deaths were unrelated to vax.

Never seen a Bravecto issue worse than regurgitating the tablet back up

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Have also used Bravecto with no issues.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Working GSD. I also looked into this as well and def. no bravetco for Merlyn. I was told by the breeder not to uuse Nexguard. One of the earlier litter had used it and pup had to be rushed to vet as it reacted so badly.

I think this is the 3rd year I'm using Nexgard on my 3 bitches, and they've not had problems. I have actually gone a few years without using any anti-tick treatment on them, because one of them gets terrible itch from using a Scalibor collar, and the other two gets terribly itchy from using Frontline spot-on.

During the years I didn't use any anti-tick treatment, I spent 7 to 9 months of the year, feeeling a bit resentful about taking them for forest walks. Because after each forest walk during the tick season, I had to comb them as soon as we got home, then after around 1 hour I combed them again + crawled around on all four on the floor, searching the floor + sleeping places for ticks. I also felt through them every day to try and find any more ticks that I had missed.
One period I tried hoovering them after each forest walk, but that left too many ticks on them.

The first, and last few months of the tick season is perhaps not too bad, in comparison, but during the 5 or more months of the ticks high season, the comb, and comb again + crawl on all four regime, usually ended with me finding 30, 40+ ticks daily, but there was still those which I didn't catch. If I had one of the few, and far between, good days, and only found around 10 to 20 ticks, I spent the rest of the day with a nagging feeling that I must had missed finding a whole bunch of ticks.
Even though I found so many ticks before biting, the tick-removers was used so often, that I often didn't bother putting them back in the first aid box, without just had a bunch of tick-removers laying on top of the box.

Lots of ticks also ended up biting me, the indoors/only going out in a small enclosure cats, and other family members. During the years of not using any anti-tick treatment, Jonna did get a tick infection, fortunately, she got well quickly.
And I react somewhat strongly on all tick bites. I suppose that the positive thing with the later, is that they've never fed off me for long, before I find them. The downside is that the bites is irritated, and itches for around 2 or more weeks, and I have to treat each bite daily to stop the itch.

Even though that none of the anti-tick treatment I've used before, or is using now, is 100% in stopping ticks, I'm not sure I can tell with words how happy I am over that there is something I can use to stop the yearly tick invasion.

Sorry for going off topic. I trust my veterinarians, and don't feel that they're trying to force unnecessary vaccinations on my bitches, so I do what they recommend.

 

[rara007]

all the vets in our area give the same advice

pretty strong! Even the same vets within my practice don't give the exact same advice.

I have sat in a vet's waiting room listening to their staff calling up the dog owners on their books to try and persuade them to sign up to the package. A nice little earner for vets.

or potentially helping to save those that regularly treat their animals some money? An individual advocate at my practice for 25-40kg dog is £14, our plan is £12.50/month. If they buy a few singles in a row I'll get reception to give them a call.

Why treat a dog for fleas with a chemical that kills fleas without making sure it has them.

A couple of reasons- by the time you remove the tic/spot that it has one that could well be too late for tic bourne diseases. Also testing for lung worm isn't possible in normal counts and unreliable even with specific testing.

The WSAVA suggests boosters every 3 years (DHP not lepto) so why are vets so desperate to vaccinate annually. Why not titre and then boost if needed.

You can't titre test for lepto, that's the annual one.

Grumpy and tired of Essex who stayed late yet again working on a critically ill dog with a preventable condition. (Spay for a lab- £250, on monday at early pyo when she was advised to bring it in= £750ish, today and despite our best efforts guarded prognosis= £1250, good job we're in it for the money )

 

[{97702}]

Bloody hell rara007 that makes me so very cross.... I’ve just posted on FB to say that I ALWAYS support spying at an appropriate age, I had a whippet years ago who had pyo because I was having her injected to stop her coming into season (under the advice and guidance of my vets I hasten to add!) - luckily I picked up on her behaviour, took her to the vets the next day and they operated the day after so she was fine, but I’ve never forgiven myself for that

In terms of Lepto4, my lot have had it for 3 years now with absolutely no side effects, they are all different ages. My vets only vaccinate as required, so Lepto annually and the others bi-annually (I think)

 

[paddy555]

pretty strong! Even the same vets within my practice don't give the exact same advice.


)

It wasn't meant to be pretty strong just what I have found over very many years with our various local vets.

 

[Clodagh]

It wasn't meant to be pretty strong just what I have found over very many years with our various local vets.

I would really hate not to trust my vets.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I would really hate not to trust my vets.

Ditto the above. I know that "my" veterinarians, and vet nurses, is only humans, and that they can make mistakes like the rest of us, but after having used them as my main veterinarians during 27 years, I know that they're very competent, and really wants what is best for my pets.

 

[paddy555]

I would really hate not to trust my vets.

yes so would I and I trust my current vets to a reasonable extent. However, I never accept anything without checking it out first. (animal health or otherwise)
As a result of checking and querying over the years I now have 2 horses that would otherwise be dead.

The emergency vet I had to call on a Sunday was the senior partner. My horse couldn't eat due to lack of swallowing and I wanted a gag put on to check if any tree branches were stuck in the back of his mouth. He had been eating branches. Vet took one look at him and said it was neurological. That was from a distance. I asked what he meant and he said botulism. It was unfortunate, some horses got it and I was just unlucky. I was however very lucky that he had dealt with a cow with botulism so he recognised it. (The horse was even more lucky that I had nursed a horse through botulism!!) I decided not to have him PTS as vet recommended as it did not immediately look like botulism but asked him to put the gag on anyway. He couldn't so I put it on and satisfied myself there was nothing stuck. Vet gave him antibiotics and told me his partner who I usually dealt with would be in touch tomorrow, presumably to get rid of me. Horse improved, antibiotics wore off, horse got worse. More antibiotics and problem was resolved. Several years later and horse is still alive.

The other horse was a 8 month old foal who stopped eating. Called vet immediately who couldn't see much wrong and didn't even offer a blood test. I insisted on the blood test. The vet, a partner and the horse vet I normally used didn't think there was even a problem, didn't bother to offer any treatment and the following morning it took 3 hours of phone calls to be able to speak to them. Even then they only spoke to me when I told them I was going to call the horse hospital direct. The horse hospital where he was admitted as an emergency that afternoon told me they would try to keep him alive overnight but couldn't promise anything. He spent 5 days in isolation with lawsonia and several weeks afterwards on antibiotics. If I had trusted the vet at face value the foal would not have made it.

 

[Clodagh]

yes so would I and I trust my current vets to a reasonable extent. However, I never accept anything without checking it out first. (animal health or otherwise)
As a result of checking and querying over the years I now have 2 horses that would otherwise be dead.

The emergency vet I had to call on a Sunday was the senior partner. My horse couldn't eat due to lack of swallowing and I wanted a gag put on to check if any tree branches were stuck in the back of his mouth. He had been eating branches. Vet took one look at him and said it was neurological. That was from a distance. I asked what he meant and he said botulism. It was unfortunate, some horses got it and I was just unlucky. I was however very lucky that he had dealt with a cow with botulism so he recognised it. (The horse was even more lucky that I had nursed a horse through botulism!!) I decided not to have him PTS as vet recommended as it did not immediately look like botulism but asked him to put the gag on anyway. He couldn't so I put it on and satisfied myself there was nothing stuck. Vet gave him antibiotics and told me his partner who I usually dealt with would be in touch tomorrow, presumably to get rid of me. Horse improved, antibiotics wore off, horse got worse. More antibiotics and problem was resolved. Several years later and horse is still alive.

The other horse was a 8 month old foal who stopped eating. Called vet immediately who couldn't see much wrong and didn't even offer a blood test. I insisted on the blood test. The vet, a partner and the horse vet I normally used didn't think there was even a problem, didn't bother to offer any treatment and the following morning it took 3 hours of phone calls to be able to speak to them. Even then they only spoke to me when I told them I was going to call the horse hospital direct. The horse hospital where he was admitted as an emergency that afternoon told me they would try to keep him alive overnight but couldn't promise anything. He spent 5 days in isolation with lawsonia and several weeks afterwards on antibiotics. If I had trusted the vet at face value the foal would not have made it.

Well done but wow, I am so lucky with my vets, both equine and small animal.