Pure ID for affil showjumping? Yay or nay?

[Mule]

Am I wrong in believing that an ISH is any sport horse bred in Ireland?

So in fact it could be all european warmblood rather than ID x TB?

Mind you what is an ID x TB except a warmblood? ie a cross between cold blood (draught type horse) and hot blood (TB/Arab)
Off out to do horses now having lit touch paper!!!

Yes, you're right about the European warmbloods being classed as ISH. There is an acronym (TIH) which stands for traditional Irish horse, ie; a mix of Tb/ID/ Connie , this is on the newer passports and is stamped on a passport with change of ownership.
(I recently adopted my foster ISH so sent his passport in and the registry stamped it with TIH)

Apparently the European warmbloods mature faster than the ISH because they don't have draught blood. The warmbloods can be developed quicker and become profitable in a shorter timespan. That's one of the reasons why European warmblood stallions are being crossed with Irish mares.

 

[Rowreach]

If you want an id buy an Id if you want a horse to jump buy a horse that jumps - in not sure why people do this - buy I horse not really suited to the job they want it to do... ?? And then get upset when it can’t do it

Hmmm I've had three IDs that would jump a house and had a decent turn of foot as well - so I don't entirely agree with this. And there have been plenty of Grade A IDs along the way that prove some of them can jump. However, if you buy the sort of short legged deep bodied ID that many people seem to like, it probably won't become a showjumper

 

[kimberleigh]

Nothing on fire here: an ISH is any horse registered and bred in Ireland with a registered & approved sire from any recognised European studbook. An ISH could in theory be a full WB. Irish Draughts are really quite mixed and are indeed "warmblooded" horses using the criterion of being a mixture of hot blood (TB) and cold blood (draught) - and there has been TB blood used a great deal more recently than 100 years ago. Both King of Diamonds and Clover Hill, two of the most famous registered "Irish Draught" stallions in recent breeding history, had significant percentages of TB blood. Pre DNA testing there was a pervasive trait of sneaking in all sorts of "improvements" without mentioning the fact (also true of Connemara ponies, although they are less mucked about).

Was toying with the idea of a WB over my Connemara mare, but have gone with another Connie instead! He is a 152cm (so class 2 due to height) and I think only 4 gens(?) back has ID/Arab/TB bloodlines.

If the WB stallion I wanted to use is still available in a few years I may go for him then and the offspring would be classed as an ISH

 

[sport horse]

Yes, you're right about the European warmbloods being classed as ISH. There is an acronym (TIH) which stands for traditional Irish horse, ie; a mix of Tb/ID/ Connie , this is on the newer passports and is stamped on a passport with change of ownership.
(I recently adopted my foster ISH so sent his passport in and the registry stamped it with TIH)

Apparently the European warmbloods mature faster than the ISH because they don't have draught blood. The warmbloods can be developed quicker and become profitable in a shorter timespan. That's one of the reasons why European warmblood stallions are being crossed with Irish mares.

Except that European Warmbloods DO have draught blood (otherwise they would not be 'warmbloods'!)- It is just a long way back in their pedigree as they have been crossed with each other for generations rather than going back to the draught x blood each generation.

 

[blitznbobs]

Hmmm I've had three IDs that would jump a house and had a decent turn of foot as well - so I don't entirely agree with this. And there have been plenty of Grade A IDs along the way that prove some of them can jump. However, if you buy the sort of short legged deep bodied ID that many people seem to like, it probably won't become a showjumper

There are always exceptions to every rule -I had a section d that did Grand Prix dressage - would I buy a section d for this job - probably not... are there some that can do it ? Yes. are they likely to be blown out of the water by their German/ Dutch rivals? Hell yes.

 

[Rowreach]

There are always exceptions to every rule -I had a section d that did Grand Prix dressage - would I buy a section d for this job - probably not... are there some that can do it ? Yes. are they likely to be blown out of the water by their German/ Dutch rivals? Hell yes.

The OP wants to do Fox, not be on the next Nations Cup team

 

[spacefaer]

Depends on the stamp and the bloodlines - we're great fans of the RIDs - all of ours, I happily take hunting and hacking by myself, without a moment's thought

I've got a Sir Stormy Breeze horse who would come down to the biggest hedge, but wouldn't have the conscience to show jump

My Star Kingdom mare would definitely jump Fox - she's bold, brave, scopey and is probably a bit too careful for my job! I was thinking she could go eventing when I sell her as she moves like a WB

I've got an old fashioned, 4-square maxi cob of a draught - he looks like he would be happy at 90cms and he can jump the top of the wings over a square oxer.

Like most breeds, it depends as much as what is between their ears and how big their heart is, as anything else!

 

[dominobrown]

Depends on the ID but the bigger ones normlly from Ireland can jump. My novice event horse is mostly ID with a tiny bit of TB and I used to jump a purebred mare. All could pop 1.30m and turn on a sixpence. They are now considered old fashioned in show jumping but 30 years ago everything was nearly a big ID!
I would be concerned if I had an ID that could only jump a metre... all of them should be more than capable of doing that.

Also side note... rumour has it that some big breeders on the contineant are looking at ID sires to add a bit of substance and sense back in.

 

[Mule]

Except that European Warmbloods DO have draught blood (otherwise they would not be 'warmbloods'!)- It is just a long way back in their pedigree as they have been crossed with each other for generations rather than going back to the draught x blood each generation.

Yes you're right. I suppose I was using the more recent definition of warmblood. Interestingly the zangzersheider (sp?) stud are pretty keen on ID blood.

 

[Mule]

Depends on the ID but the bigger ones normlly from Ireland can jump. My novice event horse is mostly ID with a tiny bit of TB and I used to jump a purebred mare. All could pop 1.30m and turn on a sixpence. They are now considered old fashioned in show jumping but 30 years ago everything was nearly a big ID!
I would be concerned if I had an ID that could only jump a metre... all of them should be more than capable of doing that.

Also side note... rumour has it that some big breeders on the contineant are looking at ID sires to add a bit of substance and sense back in.

The ID as a distinct breed rather than a cross has also become very popular with the Dutch. It's becoming a big export market. I think it's the temperament and hardiness are the big draw. They look a lot more practical as a riding horse than the European draughts. They're enormous!

 

[rachk89]

Wouldn't rule out either choice to be fair, or any other options. Might find an even better horse that isn't a breed you considered. Not all ISHs will be flighty and not all Id's will be calm and sensible. Knew one horse that I think was an ID and he was a horror at times. Used to do 3 day eventing with his previous rider, not sure how successful, but he was far too big for me to handle well given his temperament. He was 17.1hh and enormous body.

 

[sport horse]

As regards the original question of whether to buy an ID for showjumping, my one concern would be that many of the cobbier type of ID lack a bit of stride and modern show jumping has become very technical even at Foxhunter level and they could find the courses difficult. There is a huge difference between jumping one fence at a height and a whole technical course.
If I were setting out to buy a horse to show jump I would not be looking for an ID. However if during my search I came across an ID that had already proved it could do the job then I would consider it.

 

[Wheels]

yes agreed sport horse about the cobbier types of ID - there are lots of them about but there are some lovely sportier types too that would have no probs making the distance.

something like this I would imagine would not have issue