Purposely "ugly" dressage test

[SEL]

My youngest cob is dropping behind my leg as we go down the centre line. Its been building up for a while but last weekend I think he would have literally ground to a halt if I hadn't had my schooling whip. He got a smack into canter it was that bad. Hadn't spent too long warming up and is fit so this is 100% a training issue.

My OH said he looked like a sulky teenager who was told he needed to go to his maths class instead of doing fun stuff. For the record he does plenty of fun stuff and we've got all the forward in a clinic with buddies (no sign of any physical issues)

On Tuesday I am staying local and doing both intro and prelim Quest. Presume whips are OK for Quest? Its Intro C which i know well - but am I going to get a telling off if I decide I don't care about anything but Going Forward no matter what - pony club kicks etc. I have a feeling I should have nipped this in the bud a couple of months ago but thought he was sluggish with the heat. Its not the heat...

 

[Tiddlypom]

I have to say that as a dressage writer that I wouldn’t care to see a horse being ragged around a dressage arena.

If he hates dressage competitions that much then I’d accept that they are not his thing and let him do stuff that he does like.

 

[ihatework]

I think, in general, but especially in this day and age of social licence etc, just be careful.

I’d address this at home and knock competing on the head until in front of leg.

Also do a load of test riding and situations that are almost but not quite a competition. Often anxiety causes them to withdraw and become stuffy.

So get it solid at home and build confidence away is my advice. Getting on their case in the ring may end up counter productive.

 

[smurf]

As a BD List 4 judge I would say that a test at a Quest show is not the place to address schooling issues. If you were in my ring and had the attitude " I don't care about anything but Going Forward no matter what " You would be unlikely to complete the test before I rung the bell and asked you to leave.

Horse welfare is top of my list, if he's not enjoying it then it's not nice to watch

 

[jhoward]

I had a youngster that started napping in the show ring, never at home and it got worse
It started with a little nap at a entrance than she slammed the brakes on in a RIHS qualifying class. I was pissed off...she got a damn good wallop with the show cane and I went round around again.

I did apologise to the judge and explained why .who was amazing
Horse never napped again....

Now the only thing I'd say that could of affected things was my overall mood ..
My then husband was being a tit and told me the news he'd done something he knew I'd object to ( yes seriously on a show day) and horse had already had a nap on the way to the ring....

So I'd definitely ask yourself how your feeling....if your expecting him to do it perhaps how your riding is already different and he's feeding off that ..

 

[druid]

Find a test riding clinic and address it there perhaps

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

The things we consider 'fun' are generally more stimulating activities where excitement/adrenaline can override reluctance arising from physical issues. Work in less stimulating contexts is often the first place overt reluctance appears. Just another thing to consider.

 

[SEL]

As a BD List 4 judge I would say that a test at a Quest show is not the place to address schooling issues. If you were in my ring and had the attitude " I don't care about anything but Going Forward no matter what " You would be unlikely to complete the test before I rung the bell and asked you to leave.

Horse welfare is top of my list, if he's not enjoying it then it's not nice to watch

Thank you - that's genuinely the feedback I was after. My biggest issue is this isn't happening at home / arena hire so its hard to correct other than in the ring.

I'm always open minded to physical issues but given we've shot some cracking e-riders tests and I'm regularly in front of a variety of professional coaches / bodyworkers etc I do think its training - and given how talented he is, a training issue that I've probably created.

I'm sure he'd love to spend his life having a jolly round the countryside and doing jumping clinics but he is more than capable of a prelim test. This is napping really and although I need a plan B for sorting it i don't think ignoring it and just doing the fun stuff will stand him in good stead either.

 

[j1ffy]

I'm going to go against the general flow here and say that yes, a 'sacrificial' test to let the horse realise they can and should go forward in the arena is fine. I think sometimes we create more issues by not riding forward and trying to look 'pretty'.

My previous loan horse hadn't done dressage and I had to do a lot of work with him to get him relaxed in an arena (we think he'd had bad experiences as a 3/4yo as he was well-bred for SJ and likely had been pushed and rapped). I then had to work to get him off the leg, which we managed fine at home and in the warm up but he would drop off the leg as we went down the centre line - no doubt an issue of my making as I didn't want to look untidy! I did some test riding clinics and a BD camp where both the trainer and the judge (List 1) said he needed to be off the leg...the judge said he would prefer to see a rider aiming to be effective and doing something about it than sitting pretty.

That didn't mean beating him around the school, it meant giving a kick if needed or a tap at the right moment. I went to my next competition with the trainer's voice saying "f**king gallop' ringing in my ears and did a test that felt far too forward and messy - it can't have been hideous though as it was our first attempt at Novice and we got 65.6% (next rider in was the CDJ on Times Kismet who got 80% - typical ). It did the trick, he went on to be a reliable 70%+ horse at Novice and I could ride him far more quietly from then on. He's now successfully competing at Medium with his new owner.

 

[SEL]

So I'd definitely ask yourself how your feeling....if your expecting him to do it perhaps how your riding is already different and he's feeding off that ..

Good point. The tests next week genuinely don't matter to me so maybe I will ride differently with that mindset.

I also think I can ride with a Go Forward mindset without beating him up which I possibly how my post came across!

 

[maya2008]

I have had ponies who hated dressage and those who loved it. Overwhelmingly I have discovered it’s not worth trying to change their minds. They’ll do it, but you won’t do well and it will be an endless source of frustration.

I know lots of ways to spice up flatwork at home/arena hire, but in a test the best I can suggest is some small spurs used ONLY in test situations to keep the sharpness.

 

[SEL]

@j1ffy
Back when he was teleporting sideways (i have to remember we've come a long way in the last 9 months) it was my jumping instructor who told me to forget where his head was and focus on keeping his neck out and in front of my leg. I think having dealt with the spooking I have let the in front of leg slide whilst trying to look pretty.

With his trot naturally having a good rhythm I've got marks for looking pretty when he wasn't really going forward. Can see that on last weekend's sheet where his trot work is 7s despite me looking like a beetroot gasping for air.

Lots to think about.

 

[dottylottie]

this is generally how mine and lily’s tests go at the minute anyway particularly the canter! it’s not remotely pretty, but as long as she stays in canter i’m happy.

obviously don’t beat him up, but i don’t think a judge is going to ask you to leave the ring simply for abandoning “pretty” in favour of “forward”, particularly an intro test! i think 1 pony club kick looks better than kicking at every stride, and still having a slug-pony!

what’s the venue like? if you could get a good straight shot before entering you could get the pony club kick over with before actually being inside the boards haha

 

[j1ffy]

@j1ffy
Back when he was teleporting sideways (i have to remember we've come a long way in the last 9 months) it was my jumping instructor who told me to forget where his head was and focus on keeping his neck out and in front of my leg. I think having dealt with the spooking I have let the in front of leg slide whilst trying to look pretty.

With his trot naturally having a good rhythm I've got marks for looking pretty when he wasn't really going forward. Can see that on last weekend's sheet where his trot work is 7s despite me looking like a beetroot gasping for air.

Lots to think about.

My old loan horse had put a few people in hospital and had got me off a few times in the early months so I was also guilty of riding defensively! I would go back to riding forward and not worrying where the head is (especially at Intro) and see how that goes for you both

 

[AppyLover1996]

My friend had this issue with her young horse a few years ago, and what she would do is go to various shows, but go HC so the marks didn't matter and she could focus on getting him forward off the leg.

He would school beautifully at home, but at a show the brakes would go on and she'd get no where. She'd also make a point of seeing the judge, show organiser and ring steward(s) before she would get on her horse and let them know of the issues that she was having and how she would be doing the odd pony club kick and might have to back it up with her whip.

Now she did have a few show venues object to this and ask her to leave, but some other venues were understanding that it was an issue that could only be sorted at a show and therefore pretty had to be abandoned in favour of effectiveness.

 

[eggs]

I think that unwittingly we often create a bit of this problem ourselves as soon as we turn up the centre line - mainly I think from trying too hard to get it all right. I know I am certainly guilty of changing the way I ride without even realising it. In my case my coach noticed that I tend to hold my breath as soon as my test starts to now I concentrate on breathing and let the test take care of itself.

Years ago I had a horse who would back off the leg as soon as the test started. As mentioned above I went HC and told the judge on my trot round what had been happening and that I would be flicking him with my stick when he dropped behind my leg. Fortunately it only took the one go for it to click for both of us and he went on to be a super competition horse.

With my current horse I often find that doing a good strong medium canter on the go around the arena before the bell goes works wonders for him.

I would be tempted to try to get out to some test riding clinics, plait up and go in your show clothes to mimic a competition and use that to work through this. They do very quicky learn that they can drop behind the leg and the rider isn't likely to do much about it in a test.

 

[Marshpiper]

I had a youngster that started napping in the show ring, never at home and it got worse
It started with a little nap at a entrance than she slammed the brakes on in a RIHS qualifying class. I was pissed off...she got a damn good wallop with the show cane and I went round around again.

I did apologise to the judge and explained why .who was amazing
Horse never napped again....

Now the only thing I'd say that could of affected things was my overall mood ..
My then husband was being a tit and told me the news he'd done something he knew I'd object to ( yes seriously on a show day) and horse had already had a nap on the way to the ring....

So I'd definitely ask yourself how your feeling....if your expecting him to do it perhaps how your riding is already different and he's feeding off that ..

Hopefully someone didn’t video you giving your horse “a damn good wallop”…

 

[SEL]

My old loan horse had put a few people in hospital and had got me off a few times in the early months so I was also guilty of riding defensively! I would go back to riding forward and not worrying where the head is (especially at Intro) and see how that goes for you both

We're down for Intro & prelim so my current plan is to ride around Intro 3 like I'm against the clock and then see how he feels. He holds himself pretty well in canter naturally but if he's not going forward in trot the transition is dire.

@eggs yup I think you've summed me up there! I feel like I've just done a 5 minute sprint post test so I'm definitely not riding like I do at home.

The venue is a 60x20 so having a go round pre bell is permitted.

Hopefully someone didn’t video you giving your horse “a damn good wallop”…

I hope nobody reads this thread as endorsing anything other than over coming what is essentially napping. I have questioned myself a few times as to the ethics of carrying a whip but I have also seen the nasty results of what happens when certain behaviours aren't nipped in the bud.

 

[jhoward]

Hopefully someone didn’t video you giving your horse “a damn good wallop”…

I wouldn't of cared if they did to be fair. It was 600 kg of horse stood on 2 legs not a child.

 

[smurf]

Thank you - that's genuinely the feedback I was after. My biggest issue is this isn't happening at home / arena hire so its hard to correct other than in the ring.

I'm always open minded to physical issues but given we've shot some cracking e-riders tests and I'm regularly in front of a variety of professional coaches / bodyworkers etc I do think its training - and given how talented he is, a training issue that I've probably created.

I'm sure he'd love to spend his life having a jolly round the countryside and doing jumping clinics but he is more than capable of a prelim test. This is napping really and although I need a plan B for sorting it i don't think ignoring it and just doing the fun stuff will stand him in good stead either.

I do feel for you. And the trainer in me would possibly have a different suggestion. But with my judges hat on I have to say that I would not know the back story, I would just see you trot down my centre line and see an 'Ugly test' and it would not sit well with me to watch it through to the end.
I do think a test riding clinic would be a good idea, he does not know if he's test riding or competing
Good luck with him x

 

[humblepie]

If there is nothing physical, then I would say a test riding clinic would definitely be the way to go. Or have a look at it islightly flipped on its head and say you’re not riding a purposely bad dressage test you are going with an aim. So if he’s forward in the warmup, but then switches off when you get to the arena, think what you can do about that. Is there something you can do different with your warmup? Do you end up walking or standing just before you go into the ring? Is it possible to trot into the arena entry straight from the warmup so that that is purposeful and then as others said ride really purposeful around the outside of the arena before you go in? I’m not sure if you have to halt X in the Intro I presume you do. But think about riding towards C rather than thinking about halting. If you halt a bit late it doesn’t matter for the purpose of what you’re doing. I totally forgot to halt once. Judge rang bell for error of course.

 

[SEL]

I do feel for you. And the trainer in me would possibly have a different suggestion. But with my judges hat on I have to say that I would not know the back story, I would just see you trot down my centre line and see an 'Ugly test' and it would not sit well with me to watch it through to the end.
I do think a test riding clinic would be a good idea, he does not know if he's test riding or competing
Good luck with him x

And I appreciate the feedback - it's kind of why I posted really. Back of my head i thought could i just chase after him next week and get the message across that he needs to listen, but then I also don't want to be on the end of a disproving judge!

I think I'll ride the Intro test and if he's just not with me withdraw from prelim.

 

[jhoward]

Good point. The tests next week genuinely don't matter to me so maybe I will ride differently with that mindset.

I also think I can ride with a Go Forward mindset without beating him up which I possibly how my post came across!

No not at atall.
A whip used as an aid is what it's intended for, not a beating.

I think with horses that nap you expect it, you need to ride in a different way may be 3 steps before the nap happens so by the time you get to the nap you've already changed the whole picture if that makes sense.

So if you know centre line he's going to lag...you need to be riding forward going up the long side way before.

When practicing at home id also drop the halt out as I suspect he's thinking center line stop I'm done....
So come your test he's ready to stop before you are... get his pats back to the lorry and a net/treats/grass.

 

[Gamebird]

I use the time before the bell to have a really strong canter round the outside (or inside, depending on the set up). A couple of strong trot transitions straight into medium canter down the long side, back into trot round the end, and the same down the next side. Even before an intro test if the horse required it.

I would never choose to ride an 'ugly' or unpleasant test though. Maybe a strong forwards one, but that would be as far as I would go.

 

[palo1]

This is intended to be taken with an understanding that I know how frustrating this problem can be but...please don't ride ugly for a test - I don't think it will help with the training and it definitely won't help any viewers with the social licence of dressage. If pony is struggling with the atmosphere or to enjoy prelim/W & T tests when going out, he may just need more exposure. Grinding to a halt is as much as an opportunity as riding an ugly test possibly? Could you try taking him to a little show or just build up confidence and enthusiasm rather than trying to force the forwards button? I'm absolutely no expert but this sounds hard on both of you and pony doesn't really understand or care about his abilities, only the situation he finds himself in. If he's like a sulky teenager, getting into a 'discussion' in the environment he's not happy with could make things worse. Good luck sorting the issue out, however you feel best though.

 

[Roxylola]

Have you tried having a good medium canter as you're going round before the bell? Also I think intro tests are dull and fiddly and it sounds like your horse might too I'd be inclined to do prelim only personally, a bit more to do might inspire him.
Id sacrifice outline and nice for travelling but I wouldn't chase for it in a test situation. I've seen some ugly rounds in the past (and ridden one which with hindsight I wish I hadn't) and it just doesn't sit well with me

 

[LEC]

My warm up would be 15 mins of walk as a loosening up for the body. Then 5-10 mins of gallop - I would ask to go first! I would be saying ready, steady go in a corner and then off you go as fast and you can down the long side and then go in the ring and ride with the same mind set. I wouldn't be thinking about anything else and that's how I would sacrifice the test. If the trot dropped off the leg then I wouldn't be asking for gallop. If the walk dropped off I would be asking for trot. I would just play a mind game rather than being purposely getting after the horse. I would also be pretty jolly about it and praise when forwards.

 

[little_critter]

I use the time before the bell to have a really strong canter round the outside (or inside, depending on the set up). A couple of strong trot transitions straight into medium canter down the long side, back into trot round the end, and the same down the next side. Even before an intro test if the horse required it.

I would never choose to ride an 'ugly' or unpleasant test though. Maybe a strong forwards one, but that would be as far as I would go.

I did this once at an Area Festival to wake my horse up, the bell went just as I was asking for canter so we had a strong canter up the long side, came back to trot, prepared to enter at A…..only to find I was at the wrong end
So we had another canter up the next long side while waving sheepish apologies to the judge.

 

[SEL]

This is intended to be taken with an understanding that I know how frustrating this problem can be but...please don't ride ugly for a test - I don't think it will help with the training and it definitely won't help any viewers with the social licence of dressage. If pony is struggling with the atmosphere or to enjoy prelim/W & T tests when going out, he may just need more exposure. Grinding to a halt is as much as an opportunity as riding an ugly test possibly? Could you try taking him to a little show or just build up confidence and enthusiasm rather than trying to force the forwards button? I'm absolutely no expert but this sounds hard on both of you and pony doesn't really understand or care about his abilities, only the situation he finds himself in. If he's like a sulky teenager, getting into a 'discussion' in the environment he's not happy with could make things worse. Good luck sorting the issue out, however you feel best though.

He's been out & about - clinics, small shows, big shows. He's usually ears pricked and unless the warm up is particularly horrible seems to like the company. He falls off my leg in the actual test.

My warm up would be 15 mins of walk as a loosening up for the body. Then 5-10 mins of gallop - I would ask to go first! I would be saying ready, steady go in a corner and then off you go as fast and you can down the long side and then go in the ring and ride with the same mind set. I wouldn't be thinking about anything else and that's how I would sacrifice the test. If the trot dropped off the leg then I wouldn't be asking for gallop. If the walk dropped off I would be asking for trot. I would just play a mind game rather than being purposely getting after the horse. I would also be pretty jolly about it and praise when forwards.

Thanks - that's really helpful. In fact the nicest prelim recently was one where their warm up was on rock solid grass so I didn't canter until I got into the arena then really got him motoring. He is a horse who responds to jolly too.

Have you tried having a good medium canter as you're going round before the bell? Also I think intro tests are dull and fiddly and it sounds like your horse might too I'd be inclined to do prelim only personally, a bit more to do might inspire him.
Id sacrifice outline and nice for travelling but I wouldn't chase for it in a test situation. I've seen some ugly rounds in the past (and ridden one which with hindsight I wish I hadn't) and it just doesn't sit well with me

The Intro tests are fiddly and lots of people can't ride a decent serpentine! Until recently our canter wasn't really balanced enough on the right rein but that's usually OK now. He does ride better after a good canter anyway

I've been pondering over ugly rounds today. I followed someone a few weeks ago who spent a lot of their test fiddling with their horse's mouth and thought that was ugly but lots do it & score well.

 

[Boulty]

I’d say there’s nothing wrong with compromising on things like head position or accuracy in order to maintain as much forwards momentum as possible and whilst it will affect your marks I highly doubt judge would stop the test for it. Also wouldn’t think you’d have major issues with encouraging horse to be very onward bound other than again you’ll probably have comments about rushing.

I think the only thing that would be in danger of getting you pulled up would be if you were seen to be not being sympathetic with your aids (I think one or two instances of a slightly stronger aid to get a reaction is unlikely to raise eyebrows but if you had to continue it throughout entire test that probably wouldn’t be looked on favourably