Putting a horse in cross-ties

[Hallo2012]

No it's not. I've never tied a horse, either on single or cross ties, with it's head higher than wither height.

agree to disagree then. virtually every picture i can find (that isnt of a quarter horse built 3ft downhill ) the horse is not stood with head at wither height in cross ties, either mine or generic internet pics-even if you google out of the first 50 pics only 2/3 could stand with head at wither height easily.

mine personally stand in a better way on a single tie so i will carry on doing that.

 

[MagicMelon]

Of course not, but cross tying only exists to prevent the horse doing what you don't want it to. Otherwise, people would just use one rope.
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This is how I feel about them. I see them as overly controlling of the horse, why cant they move a bit if they want. I dont mind if my horse wants to turn to see a loud noise behind it etc. I feel its a bit weird to try to keep them so straight and unable to move much. Yes it probably helps with an anxious / worked up horse who might be messing about, but Id rather try to settle the horse than just tie it up like this personally. Different of course if its for veterinary reasons, but in general I dont really see the big benefit.

 

[hock]

I use cross ties when we’ve got a lot of riding horses in and it’s summer as they’re in the wash box and I have a solarium thingy over the top so everything’s in the same place opposite the tack room. I don’t use them everytime if they’re not getting hot and sweaty it can be just as easy to take tack to the stable.

 

[Jenko109]

Never used them or indeed ever seen anyone use them in the UK.

Saw them in use on a hunting yard in Ireland once, but that's the only time.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

its impossible to have them long enough they can drop the head to wither height and really relax unless they are very long and as being as mine are both entire, long ropes and stampy legs are not a good combo.
on the straight tie it can be short enough they cant get a leg over but long enough to allow a neck to drop down nicely.

my 4yo is much more relaxed on one tie than cross ties.

I'll take a pic of ours next time the farrier is in. Our tie rings are at human waist height, the ropes are very loose, the horses can stick their noses on the floor and then some if they want to.

 

[HashRouge]

agree to disagree then. virtually every picture i can find (that isnt of a quarter horse built 3ft downhill ) the horse is not stood with head at wither height in cross ties, either mine or generic internet pics-even if you google out of the first 50 pics only 2/3 could stand with head at wither height easily.

mine personally stand in a better way on a single tie so i will carry on doing that.

I'm not trying to tell you that you should use cross ties if you don't want to. But, it is 100% possible to tie a horse in cross ties so that it is able to put its head at wither height or lower. If the horse can't do that, the cross ties are too high or too tight. There is no need for dangling ropes - you don't need a single lead rope to be loose and dangling for a horse to be able to stand with its head in a relaxed position, ditto cross ties.

 

[Sossigpoker]

Never used them or indeed ever seen anyone use them in the UK.

Saw them in use on a hunting yard in Ireland once, but that's the only time.

Apart from in every wash bay and solarium I've seen here ?

Seriously though: if your horse is calm and relaxed and taught to tie up, what difference does it make ?
We have cross ties in the wash bay and solarium and the horses don't stand any differently there than in a single tie point.

 

[teapot]

I don't think it's a terrible thing if people do things with their horses in their boxes, but it isn't for me. Just personal preference.
I also have a LOT of ‘poorly’ horses as I specialise in rehab, they like company but they also like things to watch. They all have windows, and can look into the barn too so they have plenty to watch.
I do skip out at 10pm, with them in their boxes, and I often sit down with my boys for a cuddle when they're lying down, but in terms of grooming, tacking up, treatments etc? I just don't like them done in stables.

It's also a lot safer not being pinned in by four walls if you're having to apply continuous treatment on box-rested horses, but that was drummed into me years ago -shrug- Boxes are their space to eat, rest, sleep imho.

I'm not bothered per se re cross tying over single tie. I worked in a yard that had a lot of stalls, and my biggest bug bear was horses being tied up and unable to move that much/turn around for x length periods.

 

[ycbm]

We have cross ties in the wash bay and solarium and the horses don't stand any differently there than in a single tie point.

A solarium is one place they make sense, if the horse doesn't work out its warmer centrally under the lights.

Seriously though: if your horse is calm and relaxed and taught to tie up, what difference does it make ?

None. Its the ones that wouldn't just stand for whatever you are doing with them and why they wouldn't that matter.

 

[ycbm]

that was drummed into me years ago -shrug- Boxes are their space to eat, rest, sleep imho.

I don't get this argument at all. If I thought my horse was upset by being tacked up in his box (where he isn't tied and never walks away from his tack) or by me visiting to give him a hug and scratch off some mud, or by somebody doing the late poo pick, then I wouldn't keep him in a stable.
.

 

[Starzaan]

I don't get this argument at all. If I thought my horse was upset by being tacked up in his box (where he isn't tied and never walks away from his tack) or by me visiting to give him a hug and scratch off some mud, or by somebody doing the late poo pick, then I wouldn't keep him in a stable.
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I don’t think my horses or liveries are upset by being handled in their boxes, I just like to leave their boxes as their space. I have nothing against those who do things with horses in their boxes, but on my yard it’s a hard and fast rule not to.
They all get the 10pm skip out, and they get cuddles in their boxes, but I tack up, groom, rug etc outside their boxes. Just how I do things. Same reason why I won’t let a horse ever step into a stable with a dropping in it, most people think that’s ridiculous, but it’s how I do things, and I charge a looooot of money, my ludicrously high standards make that feel worthwhile to the people paying for my services.

 

[Jenko109]

Apart from in every wash bay and solarium I've seen here ?

I have never been on a yard with a wash bay or a solarium. Not sure why the concept of someone having not seen them in use in the UK is so hilarious ?

 

[paddy555]

I have never been on a yard with a wash bay or a solarium. Not sure why the concept of someone having not seen them in use in the UK is so hilarious ?

I'm not on a yard (my own place) and I've never seen one ever. If I wanted one I'm sure I could have one but when my horse comes home hot and sweaty what he really wants is not to stand being washed and dried but to be turned out in the field to canter down the field and to roll. I'm sure that makes me a lousy owner. The horse is happy though.

 

[paddy555]

but that was drummed into me years ago -shrug- Boxes are their space to eat, rest, sleep imho.

drummed into you by people or horses? Totally don't get it. I can see no benefit for the horse. If a horse eats, sleeps, rests in it's natural environment (or in a UK field) the other horses don't go "must keep out of it's way it's resting", in fact they usually wander up and join it.
I do a lot of massage with mine in their box with the door shut and the horse loose. I like him to be able to wander to express his views on my massage. Does he stay,, drop his head and yawn or does he move and put his ears back ie that area hurts.

 

[Palindrome]

They were some in a barn I used to ride at in the US. I often only tied one of them 'cause I am sloppy but the horse did perfectly well when both were tied.
The ties were attached to wooden rails that made a U shape around the horse, you had to back the horse into it or turn around in a small space. The height was lower than the mare's wither so she could definitely relax and she could turn her head as well but not completely to her wither.
It is easier for grooming, tacking up and bathing as you can more easily move around the horse without anything in front. It is a bit of a faff to have to back up the horse into the space so I just have a single tie point at home, I don't have many facilities anyway (paddock + shelter and a bit of hard standing), but I can see the appeal in a posh yard with fully matted grooming boxes.

 

[humblepie]

If you are staying away at a show unless you have helpers or staff to hold the horse, chances are the horse is going to be have to got ready in his box so needs to be used to that. Sometimes you can manage to tie up (and quite often get in the way of everyone else) but other than the last bit of hoof oil he will normally be got ready and tacked up in the temporary box. My worry with cross ties is that unless properly set up on a rubber or horse friendly surface that if the horse tries to walk off he/she could slip back end under when front end can't move. Not sure if that is a genuine issue or not.

 

[teapot]

drummed into you by people or horses? Totally don't get it. I can see no benefit for the horse. If a horse eats, sleeps, rests in it's natural environment (or in a UK field) the other horses don't go "must keep out of it's way it's resting", in fact they usually wander up and join it.
I do a lot of massage with mine in their box with the door shut and the horse loose. I like him to be able to wander to express his views on my massage. Does he stay,, drop his head and yawn or does he move and put his ears back ie that area hurts.

Humans. I’m fully with @Starzaan on the it’s their space thing.

 

[ycbm]

I'm not convinced they care as long as it's not constant interruption of resting time. I wonder if people aren't anthropomorphising about what it was like as a teenager to have someone come into your bedroom and invade "your space". I think I'll start worrying about tacking up in the stable when Ludo buys pictures of his favourite rock band and sticks them to the walls ?
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[Cortez]

I'm not convinced they care as long as it's not constant interruption of resting time. I wonder if people aren't anthropomorphising about what it was like as a teenager to have someone come into your bedroom and invade "your space". I think I'll start worrying about taking up in the stable when Ludo buys pictures of his favourite rock band and sticks them to the walls ?
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Nah, I bet he's got......Spotify!

 

[ycbm]

Nah, I bet he's got......Spotify!

Boom boom!

Wish I'd thought of that! ?

 

[paddy555]

I'm not convinced they care as long as it's not constant interruption of resting time. I wonder if people aren't anthropomorphising about what it was like as a teenager to have someone come into your bedroom and invade "your space". I think I'll start worrying about taking up in the stable when Ludo buys pictures of his favourite rock band and sticks them to the walls ?
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many of these horses stabled in livery yards are, in winter, going to be spending up to 16 hours a day in their boxes. They surely have plenty of rest time.

I think it is one of these "rules" that have passed down in "horsemanship" over many years. The rules of horsekeeping one reads in books of "you must do that, or must not do this" Many don't have any substance behind them, they are just repeated.

I guess people on livery yards, especially the more high class ones,, follow them to the letter as that is what everyone expects of them and they are criticised if they don't and those of us with horses at home just have much lower standards and do what is practical and works. The horses don't care one way or another.

As for rock posters that is fine for my youngest but my horses swap stables almost daily and my old lady aged 36 is very much of the "sing something simple" era. Problem, Problems (you will have to be old to understand that )

 

[Cortez]

Boom boom!

Wish I'd thought of that! ?

I'm here all week......

 

[conniegirl]

its impossible to have them long enough they can drop the head to wither height and really relax unless they are very long and as being as mine are both entire, long ropes and stampy legs are not a good combo.

It definitely is not!!
My pony is 13.2hh the cross ties on the yard allow him to lower his head to below wither height and he is by far the smallest on the yard.
I normally pop him in them whilst i muck out if the yard is an icerink or it is horrific outside. I often get back to him and he is catching up o. His Zzzzzz’s whilst cross tied.

The only thing trhe cross ties do is stop him turning through more than 180. But that just means he can watch the world go by without his back end being a risk to anyone or anything going past him (not that he ever would).

I could tack him up loose in his stable, i could muck out round him, heck we have done shockwave therapy on him loose in his stable with no sedation. But it is more convenient to do it whilst he is tied up. He doesn’t mind either way and believe me he is more than capable of making his opinion knows regardless of being tied up, cross tied or loose.

 

[conniegirl]

If you are staying away at a show unless you have helpers or staff to hold the horse, chances are the horse is going to be have to got ready in his box so needs to be used to that. Sometimes you can manage to tie up (and quite often get in the way of everyone else) but other than the last bit of hoof oil he will normally be got ready and tacked up in the temporary box. My worry with cross ties is that unless properly set up on a rubber or horse friendly surface that if the horse tries to walk off he/she could slip back end under when front end can't move. Not sure if that is a genuine issue or not.

And this is different to a single tied horse how? They aee still going to slip and they have a very similar range of movement. A slipping horse can break its neck if singly tied or cross tied, cross tieing just makes them slipping less likely.

 

[ycbm]

And this is different to a single tied horse how? They aee still going to slip and they have a very similar range of movement. A slipping horse can break its neck if singly tied or cross tied, cross tieing just makes them slipping less likely.

If they did have a similar range of movement, there would be little point in ever cross tying.

A horse single tied can move it's backside 180 degrees even in a pretty narrow box. A cross tied horse will always have a triangle where a handler can safely move to between the head, the bum and the wall.

I had Ludo single tied in a wash box earlier this year. As i brought the hose boom across he very unexpectedly panicked at it moving above him, tried to run out and couldn't, so turned a full 180 to get his body out from under the boom. If he had been cross tied he would have shot forward and quite likely done the sit-down that Humblepie suggests.

 

[ycbm]

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, I don't have any issues with anyone cross tying their horse (except across the aisle of a barn!) IF they aren't going to ignore a horse pulling faces, trying to bite, wanting not to have the saddle on its back, wanting not to be brushed or shutting down because none of those cries are being listened to.
.

 

[conniegirl]

If they did have a similar range of movement, there would be little point in ever cross tying.

A horse single tied can move it's backside 180 degrees even in a pretty narrow box. A cross tied horse will always have a triangle where a handler can safely move to between the head, the bum and the wall.

I had Ludo single tied in a wash box earlier this year. As i brought the hose boom across he very unexpectedly panicked at it moving above him, tried to run out and couldn't, so turned a full 180 to get his body out from under the boom. If he had been cross tied he would have shot forward and quite likely done the sit-down that Humblepie suggests.

Our cross ties ate in the middle of the aisle. No wall at all.
Cob was tied in them and a tractor dropped its bucket in the yard behind him, he turned so his bum was to the left and he could look behind him. He could also have turned to the right. It is no different to single tying them with a wall or fence in front except they can see in front of them unlike a wall

 

[ycbm]

Our cross ties ate in the middle of the aisle. No wall at all.
Cob was tied in them and a tractor dropped its bucket in the yard behind him, he turned so his bum was to the left and he could look behind him. He could also have turned to the right. It is no different to single tying them with a wall or fence in front except they can see in front of them unlike a wall

There are always at least 2 walls, by definition, to cross tie.

If you think there's no difference why do you bother clipping the second one on, it's a waste of effort?
.

 

[conniegirl]

There are always at least 2 walks, by definition, to cross tie.

If you think there's no difference why do you bother clipping the second one on, it's a waste of effort?
.

No, there are no walls, there are 2 posts in the middle of the aisle for out cross tie. You do not need walls for a cross tie. Just 2 posts.

I bother with the second one as there is no wall or fence in front of him so when only tied to one he would be able to move his bum 360 degrees and potentially get it in the way of the aisle in front of the cross ties where all the water, hay and straw is. This is a busy walk way with people and horses constantly moving. Having his bum unexpectedly swing round on some of those horses would probably end with cob hurt.

Ours looks very similar to this:

 

[ycbm]

No, there are no walls, there are 2 posts in the middle of the aisle for out cross tie. You do not need walls for a cross tie. Just 2 posts.

I bother with the second one as there is no wall or fence in front of him so when only tied to one he would be able to move his bum 360 degrees and potentially get it in the way of the aisle in front of the cross ties where all the water, hay and straw is. This is a busy walk way with people and horses constantly moving. Having his bum unexpectedly swing round on some of those horses would probably end with cob hurt.

Ours looks very similar to this:
View attachment 104420

OK, I forgot pillars, but - Exactly! You use 2 ties to increase the restriction of movement!