Putting fillies in foal aged 2?

[flyingfeet]

Just a quick question, a friend of mine is putting her 2 year old in foal this year. The reasoning being is "its always done in Ireland" and "It opens up the pelvis and improves ability for eventing"

I've never heard of this and consider two to be too young, am I am an old fashioned stick in the mud?

 

[DivaRosa]

I don't have any idea really but I have just been reading in H&H the article about The Billy Stud and it says in there that they are expecting 25 foals from 2yr old fillies this year.

 

[Alexart]

Putting any mare in foal under the age of 4 is seriously bad - only gypsies and people wanting to make a fast buck do it that young!! Why do you think a filly is called a filly until it is 4yrs old - because it is still a baby!!!!
The chances of loosing the mare are much higher as the pelvis is not yet fully developed so often too small for the foal.
The foals are often not great as the mare is still growing herself, and it also stunts the mare because she puts so much into foalie.
People always say how bad it is to break a horse in at 2 but putting it in foal is the same as having a twelve stone person sitting on its back 24/7, so you can imagine the damage it does to still growing joints!!
There are far more incidences of mares rejecting their foal as they have no idea what to do and are not mentally mature themselves - it is the same as an 8yr old human having a baby.
It is worse in the slower maturing breeds - some people are in a rush to get a foal out of them no matter the cost to their mare - if it looks immature then why not wait another year or 2. It also gives you a better idea if the mare is worth breeding from and they tend to be far calmer about the whole thing the older they are!
Sorry just makes me angry when ignorant idiots only think of their pocket and not the mare or foal!!!

 

[volatis]

I plan to cover my homebred fillies at 3, so they foal at 4, if they look mature enough. 2 is too young fr me personally. having said that, I put all my breeding plans on hold laat year so didnt cover either of the 3yos, but might cover a 3yo this season.

 

[Simsar]

2/3yrs old is not to young at all, but again it is peoples preference.

 

[Vikki89]

I don't know much about breeding but would have thought carrying the weight of a foal would put quite alot of pressure on growing bones/joints.

 

[Faberge]

I am not opposed to mares being put in foal aged two, as long as they are individually assessed and deemed ready to breed by a vet.

 

[Billsmam]

I think that it is too young, they are still just babies themselves. Its not somthing that i would ever do but each to there own

 

[the watcher]

I've never heard of this and consider two to be too young, am I am an old fashioned stick in the mud?

You are certainly not old fashioned - 2 year olds have been put in foal for probably hundreds of years, and not just gypsy cobs or low end breeders. It was quite common to have a foal off a youngster so that bit was out of the way before they started working to prevent an interruption to work, and as a way of testing the fertility of the filly. It still goes on now, and I imagine many of the 4 year old warmbloods that are imported may have popped out a foal too.

Whether it is right or not, in my view, comes down to the individual animal - I wouldn't discount it but certainly wouldn't do it as a matter of course

 

[Angela_Wise]

I have bred from a few two year olds - one of the earliest was Morning Cloud who after she had her foal went onto to become a Grade A mare. The foal was Dalcotes Cotehele (by Kings Composer) and she is also a Grade A jumping mare. I actually didnt put any 2yo's in foal last year but will be looking to cover a couple this time.

 

[eventer28]

I'm certainly not a gypsy, nor making a fast buck. My 4yo's mum was put in foal when she was 2. She foaled normally as a 3yo and raised her foal like any older mare. She isn't stunted at 16.2h and is doing well eventing, my 4yo is 16.2h, healthy, strong and enjoys his playtimes out in the paddocks with his young mum.

 

[SSM]

I personally would not put an animal that is still growing in foal. But I know nothing about birthing babies!

 

[Alec Swan]

Why do you think a filly is called a filly until it is 4yrs old - because it is still a baby!!!!
The chances of loosing the mare are much higher as the pelvis is not yet fully developed so often too small for the foal.
The foals are often not great as the mare is still growing herself, and it also stunts the mare because she puts so much into foalie.
People always say how bad it is to break a horse in at 2 but putting it in foal is the same as having a twelve stone person sitting on its back 24/7, so you can imagine the damage it does to still growing joints!!
There are far more incidences of mares rejecting their foal as they have no idea what to do and are not mentally mature themselves - it is the same as an 8yr old human having a baby.

Alexart, you're right, and I would go further. This 2 year old, and now in foal filly, if she is to continue growing, will need, specifically calcium, to enable her to reach her eventual height and substance. Where, I would like to know, is this calcium to come form for her and/or the foal that she's carrying? The growing filly needs all the growth promoting nutrients which are available to her, to enable her to grow. If she were to share those vital nutrients with an embryo, then what chance does she stand?

I understand that putting 2 year olds in foal on the Continent, is common practice. I'm quite prepared to be told that I'm wrong, but I would very much like to hear that these fillies ever actually make old bones. Skeletal and dental problems would be the most likely outcome for any filly treated in such a way, in my view.

I suppose that were I prepared to scrap a mare by the time that she's 12, then I would possibly consider it. I'm not so prepared, so I don't do it. Others will do as they will.

Alec.

 

[Irishlife]

From a lot of continental stud book perspectives, putting a 2yo in foal means that if she goes onto have a successful career, there will be a potential stallion or broodmare on the ground already to add to the performance gene pool.

A lot of people do cover mares early in Ireland for various reasons. One being the horse is an agricultural animal here and there are incentives and premiums paid for breeding mares especially IDs and Connemaras hence they are bred early.

They also say it will stunt a filly's growth - for some reason amongst a lot of grassroots breeders here 16hh is an optimum height and anything bigger not considered all that.

 

[Holly831]

Knowing how much can go wrong (I just lost one of my mares and her foal - would have been her 8th foal) I would never put a 2 year old in foal.

My 2 year olds are still babies and imo need to stay as babies. We ask a lot of our horses and being a youngster is about the only time they dont have other demands placed on them. My rising 3 year old is still not mature enough to be put in foal this year to foal as a four year old in fact I am delaying backing her as well.

Each to their own but I personally disagree with it.

 

[Alexart]

Why do people always say the same thing - "it has always been done and has been done for centuries so therefore it is OK"???! And "I've done it before and all went well"? as their reasoning!
I'd agree with a1b2c3 my mares are too valuable and I want a long career from them, I wouldn't want to unnecessarily risk them or all the time and effort I've put into them just to loose them for the sake of a year, there is no reason what so ever to put a baby horse in foal other than financial gain and the fact a lot of people don't like the thought of having a horse in a field simply growing - it has to be making money.

And by the way it doesn't just stunt them height wise, the best example of breeding an animal too young and having visible results is sheep, as I know a lot of people will say well how do you know what height or size a mare would of made anyway. If you compare those that are put in lamb at the end of their first year and those that the farmer waits till they are mature at 2, there is a huge difference in size and substance, the ones lambed early are always smaller in stature and don't have as much substance to them at all, and have the most complications - you can easily pick them out in a flock of the same breed, they never recover fully the growth period they lost, even stuffing a youngster full of food won't make up for it.

Am curious now as I thought it was seriously frowned upon to breed at 2, can I ask out of interest those that do breed at 2 - why do you do it and what is your reasoning? And how many mares/foals have you lost/or had complications with? I've come across a good few that have bred at 2 and had disastrous results.

Also getting a vet to say wether a horse is fit for breeding isn't a great idea - firstly you employ them, they can only tell you if the mares reproductive tract is working - which technically it is from about a year old, and most will say yes as they know most people will breed anyway and they don't want to loose a client!