Putting horse in a flash noseband... is this giving in?

ElvisandTilly

ElvisandTilly

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If I put my horse into a flash noseband is this a fail as in giving in to gadgets?

My horse is moving up well in his schooling and we have a new instructor that has brought us on in leaps and bounds in only 3 lessons together.

As we have now moved onto canter work, as my horses walk and trot work is now balanced and consistent, (well till we get into a show atmosphere and it all goes to pot!!!) we have moved up into canter today but he has rushed, messed around evading contact in his mouth...saddle checked, teeth done 3 weeks ago and horse all physically sound and well. Its just when we get into the canter work that he has started opening his mouth, evading contact, chewing and trying to get tongue over the bit to tank off with head above vertical wanting to go as fast as he can and fighting any attempt to slow or respond to half halts etc.

My instructor has suggested putting him in a flash to stop the evasion before it gets into a habit and to give me more control to progress without the fight. I on the other hand have never liked the idea of strapping his mouth up as he obviously has a problem with it as all was well till we moved into the canter work tonight. Last week his canter work was fine with no mouth evasion but this week he really was terrible.

What are all your experiences and opinions on the benefits of putting a flash on and is it really a cop out rather than getting him to work correctly without the flash? I feel he is trying to say in the only way he can that he wasn't coping with the work tonight? Either too tired or worked too long? He really has upped his schooling and is doing well but maybe too much too fast? Am I just being a softy on him?! Help please :-)
 
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I know you said that you've had his teeth checked, but have you checked the corners of his mouth/ gums where the bit lies? This sounds very similar to how my mare was before we found that her bit had rubbed a sore in the corner of her mouth. It'll do no harm to check.
 
i personlly dont like flashes as they restricted the nasal passsages and often used far to tight - my mare needs one lol i admit that but we prefer to ride her through her jaw crossing and i think she deserves that - a well fitted dropped noseband? and schooling displacing hands rising hands ? - but ok that is only my view :)
 
I would give it a while before changing over to a flash. Daughters pony is very similar, needs a little patience when schooling especially with his head and mouth. Tries to evade the bit but essentially he's being asked to work a little harder and more consistently which he is objecting to. Once he realises what is being asked of him he tends to submit.
 
Give it a bit longer and see if you can work through the problem but it isn't giving in. Another who also thinks the drop noseband is much nicer for the horse if you do need to go down that route. :)
 
I can't stand on overly tightned flash, I like to have them quite loose so they only come into to action if the horse is really evading you. I also prefer a drop or a grackle, however curerntly my horse wears a flash for fast work- it's a matter of safety! When he calms down a bit it comes off. So I think your instructor is right, if it stops being a habit, and try it for a while, and if he behaves himself it's easily taken off.
 
When did you have the saddle checked last? What I have found is that as the horse changes shape that the saddle doesn't always fit as well as it did. Muscles changes, some weight loss and the saddle that once fitted no longer does.

I had a similar problem with one of my TB's when we started his canter work. Apart from loss of balance causing the resistance his back had changed enough that when he rounded his back in the canter the saddle was rubbing on his spine in the channel under the riders seat.

Take the numnah off and ride in the saddle in walk trot and canter for about 10 mins, then take off and turn saddle over and have a look - if there is a grease patch or a shiny patch then you know that there has been contact with the backbone under the seat. An additional numnah or better still send it to be flocked up again.

TBH I always use a drop noseband when I break in and school my youngsters. It's not jamming the mouth shut but preventing the horse from learning that he can. If you use the flash make sure that you allow two fingers under both top and bottom strap so that the horse is able to relax his jaw.
 
Thank you for some brilliant replies and advice. I may give the flash a try and see how he responds. We have a show Sunday so don't want to change and make things worse.

He worked fantastically up until the point of canter and I feel by this point he was tiring as we had been working pretty hard on various exercises and i just think he was tired and had really had enough as he is not a difficult horse, maybe can get over excited and then he gets what I call 'his head on!'

His saddle is a HM fhoenix and is a treeless (well soft treed) saddle and fits him perfectly even if he changes shape slightly. I check how the saddle leaves impression on his back after every ride and especially tonight after riding and the mark was even and no signs of touching his spine or rubbed up hair.

Will check his mouth for any signs of sore bits, the dentist did rasp his bit seat down but he was fine in his mouth in all the work prior to the canter work, in fact first canter wasn't too bad just got whizzy and evading in his mouth the next times we asked for it!
 
No I don't think you are being too soft. He's trying to tell you something and you are listening, even if you're not quite sure what he is saying. Could it be the bit which is the problem, rather than his teeth?
Or it could just be that he got tired. If this is the case, he will cope better with the work as he gets fitter, so it probably would be best to persevere for afew more lessons, rather than putting a flash on immediately.
 
Does he normally open his mouth and attempt to evade contact? If not, would suggest their is another problem that needs addressing before shutting his mouth. See you are in West Yorks, wonder who you are you using? Being nosy!
 
He can be a bit evasive in his mouth but never to the extent he was yesterday in the canter work. My gut is saying he was over tired and being crabby because work level had upped past his fitness level. Will try the flash though to see if it does help.

I use a NS tranz baucher and it is a mild bit. I used to have a myler comfort snaffle but he was so heavy on the forehand in it. I then went to a NS team up and he was ok in that till asked for canter and his head was in the air so his nostrils were the highest point and completely beyond the point of control so the baucher helps bring his head back down when doing faster work so probably he really has always had something going on with the bits and mouth evasions. I have plenty of previous posts on here about bitting for him so maybe a flash could be the answer??

I have photos of his old owner riding in a show with a flash on but when I tried him he didn't so have kept him without since I bought him 3 years ago. I will ask her why she used the flash and how he went in it.

My new instructor is Chantelle Smith. She has had us doing some fantastic work! She works on both my postition and riding and what works best for my horse. My previous instructor never got us to trotting leg yield and shoulder in in the 6 months of lessons every 2 weeks and Chantelle has got us doing trot leg yield, shoulder in, halt to trot and mmany more things I never dreamt we could be doing! ...... and in only 3 lessons!

His walk and trot is now consistent so next level is the canter work. He is finding it harder than other horses as he is a French Trotter, he does trot diagonal though, he doesn't pace. He can be unbalanced in canter work but does find canter easy on rides etc. We can do walk to canter too its his transitions into canter from trot that make him evade and rush off with his mouth open. Maybe answer is more balancing work and a flash for now to get him to strengthen and learn how to balance without making things worse with the fight and evasion over the bit?? Just rambling my thoughts down on here ..... sorry!!
 
Are his teeth, back and saddle fit okay? You mention he might be cranky because his workload is exceeding his fitness, so perhaps a day or two off is in order before you try again and see how he is then?

I don't like to see flashes used unless it really is certain that the horse is evading just because they think something else is more exciting to do.

Edited to say ugh, how did I NOT see all the other replies saying the same thing? Thought I was the first to reply - shoulda gone to specsavers...
 
Naturally - He had 5 days rest before I had my lesson as I had been away so I did wonder that it was a bit hard work after having the 5 days off.

He was working brilliantly and forward the whole time prior until the canter work and then he got too forward and whizzy and as soon as you ask to half halt or slow the evasion comes in as he 'wants' to go faster.

My concern was that its like a response of a tired child who wants to continue playing etc then when you want them to put toys away, stop playing etc they play up despite the tiredness.

He is a very forward, honest and genuine horse who trys his best at everything...but... he is too intellegent for his own good and gets bored easily, anticipates and can get his awkward head on when he wants too so I was unsure if he is just evading through sheer naughtyness or whether he was tired.

I don't want to strap his mouth shut if it was pain but if he really is being naughty then want him to learn to work correctly without all the evasions. Once strapped his mouth shut I feel he is the type of horse that will just find something else to evade through.


9Tails - The dentist filed down the edge of his teeth where the bit sits in the corners of the mouth. He explained it was so the bit wasn't catching. I'm sure he called it the bit seat? If anyone can clarify that would be great.
 
Urgh. Hate flashes. IMO an elasticated drop or even a well fitted grakle is better.

Anything like that will stop the horse, but not the reason behind the behaviour.

I stupidly tried one with my Arab in our youth. I found that if he felt he couldn't go fowards, he'd go up, back or down
 
my mare went through that phase as she was finding the work hard - vicious circle - not fit enough to caner in balanc e- wont get fit until she starts doing it!
i put a very loose drop on - and actually ended up keeping it - she can still eat etc in it but it just reminds her not to open mouth too far
she's far far more settled now - in fact went completely setteled for DR - then we started eventing and suddenly DR = sj then xc and she's started being fussy again - this time though i'm sure its excitement lol!
 
Well tonight we tried a flash strap. One of those that attach to your existing cavasson....... he hated it and went worse! He was so unsettled and every time I asked for a half halt his head went up in the air and he hollowed his back and felt terrible :eek:

I took the strap off and he instantly went settled in his mouth in trot and back to his usual trot work and we asked for a canter and it was so much more balanced and not much mouth evasion when asking him to slow so it probably was his tiredness that made his reaction and evasion so much worse in my lesson.

At least I have tried it now and seen the reaction was worse. I now think maybe he isn't liking the bit? Any suggestions for bits that can get him to respect my half halts and aids to halt with respect and not leaning, pulling and evading the hand signals?....... Whole new can of worms opening here!! :D But the good part of it we are progressing!!
 
I have found it took my horse a LOT longer to gain his balance in canter than it did in walk and trot, in fact months and months so maybe he just needs more time. He really struggled to work on the bit in canter despite walk and trot being lovely. My instructor just encouraged me to work on the rhythm and bend in canter and eventually horsey improved, it is still a struggle sometimes tho.
I have stopped using a flash with him now only because he became headshy about it and really objected when i tacked him up, i suppose some horses will suffer in silence while others like to let us know they are uncomfortable.
 
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