Puzzle has done 3 things to **** me off today - anyone help with any of them?

you dont have to be a brain surgeon to work out that this filly is exhibiting signs of stress, already, at 19months!

find a more suitable yard,get her out, on grass, with other youngsters, so she grows up a normal well adjusted member of equine society!
 
just going to jump in here.

I am also on clay, it's very mucky and sticky and wellies get lost or stuck. Horses are out 24/7 with a shelter that they aren't bothering with and we even have standing water as the paddock is low lying. You can get matting that goes in the gateway to stop that getting churned up. 2 of the horses have shoes on which occasionally get pulled but that's life.

I use environmental enrichment. Things like puzzle feeders instead of feeding in a bowl. Sliceing carrots, apples ect and scattering them around the field. I have a salt lick hanging from a tree and horse toys in the paddock too.

As the door kicking is your main problem try finding things for your filly to do. The stuff I use in the field is easy to adapt to a stable, puzzle feeders, hiding things in the bedding, hanging things from the ceiling such as an apple toy.

One of the side effects of stress is stomach ulcers which can happen at any age and they will cause your filly to want to chew. This can become a learnt behaviour and even if she doesn't have ulcers she may well learn to crib and windsuck.

If she is kicking for attention then any attention, even negative attention would encourage her to keep up with the kicking, muffle it if you can and ignore it totally. Things that go on stable doors to squirt the horse have the possible side effect of making the horse door shy and you'll end up with a horse who refuses to go in or out of the stable.
 
Her field when she's turned out on grass is about 3 acres I suppose. Her turnout area is a 14x12 matted shed, with a area outside that I suppose is maybe 20x15? One side she can do 5 canter strides down. The other is shorterthan that but marginally.

Her box is 12x10.

Does that suit you, oh HHO Gestapo?!
 
flamehead said:
Fadedv the ball is uncle jimmys sugar free, look it up if you are that interested.

Why does it matter that it was this bad last year? When it gets bad they come in. It's never been a problem and it's not a problem now, whw inspected us when it was like this and are happy with our routine.
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It's you that should be interested in the ingredients of what you are feeding your horse...

Because if it was this bad last year, you have had plenty of time to sort out the gateways if you knew it was going to be a problem. It's irrelevant whether whw are happy with your routine - the filly clearly isn't, for whatever reason.
 
flamehead said:
Her field when she's turned out on grass is about 3 acres I suppose. Her turnout area is a 14x12 matted shed, with a area outside that I suppose is maybe 20x15? One side she can do 5 canter strides down. The other is shorterthan that but marginally.

Her box is 12x10.

Does that suit you, oh HHO Gestapo?!
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I hope you don't think I am the Gestapo? :( Is she in that area all day? or are they taking turns?

I definitely think a snak a ball might entertain her. You can fill it with fibre nuts. My mare used to empty one in 15 mins, but she is a bit too smart for her own good sometimes :p

Tiny holed haynets? maybe put 2 or 3 at different points around her stable and turnout area. Again try a few differently positioned swedes/turnips. Just so she is not looking at the same corner all the time. Also apples floating in her water bucket might be of interest?

Mine actually likes her jolly ball. It's been seen to fly out of her doorway on more than one occasion.

This might sound daft, but mine loves to put her own shavings down, obv. take the plastic away and knock the biggest lumps out, but she loves scooting those around :p

Can you hand pick any greenery for her? You could poke it amongst the hay, might be more appetising as she will smell it. Also carrots buried within the hay make a bit more interest.

Hopefully all those things with the addition of poo paint MIGHT persuade her there are better things to do than chew.

No doubt you are doing a good groom and a walk too.

I do feel for you. It's a difficult time of year. FWIW a lot of yards around here have been known to stop turnout and just use schools to save the fields. Even if you did move you could end up in the same situation I guess?

Did WHW have any suggestions to make at all? Any way they thought you could make improvements?
 
It wasnt you I was referring to Persephone - I have all the time in the world for helpful people like you!

Shes in that all day, so from half 6 to half 6/7. But only on the days they CANT go into the field - so perhaps 3 days a week. Does that make sense? I'm not explaining myself clearly.

She does have a treat ball that I bought her, she couldnt work it out and just kept smashing her foot on it so I took it away as I didn't want her to give herself an injury. She might understand it a bit better now, I could try again! She gets most frustrated when it rolls to the fence as it cannot get under but does get a bit wedged and then she kicks the fence!

She already has logs to chew on, twigs and greenery stuck into her haynet, and parsnips dotted around in haynets/on ledges etc. I am reluctant to put anything in her water bucket because I've only just got her out of thinking that the water bucket is a plaything - she used to fling the whole thing about, tipping all the water out, soaking herself and then leaving herself without any water all day! She is better now she has a solid plastic trough, but I obv don't want her kicking it etc as it would hurt.

WHW said that they were absolutely certain that Puzzle would be coming to a fantastic home. They said that our other two looked happy, contented and healthy, both are a good weight and obviously managed well (our tack room looks like a weightwatchers meeting, measurements everywhere!!), and that our facilities were all they could ask for from a prospective home.

When he came to visit once we'd got her (probably 4 months after?? maybe a bit less), I was in the field with her teaching her back (not staged, I promise!! he just got lucky!!) and he led her round with a headcollar, picked feet up etc etc, and then asked me to do the same, and said that she was obviously very happy and well rounded, good progression with her learning etc.

I didn't see him the last time but my OH did, this was probably a month ago, they were all in because of the mud and he said similar things. Oh, and laughed about the wood chewing and said that youngsters will push boundaries and try everything with their teeth, don't worry about it.

xxx
 
Um confused, FH has stated filly gets turned out everyday, be it a big field or a pen, which is no different and one hell of a lot more than other horses (even top class ones) signs of stress no, boredom more than likely which FH is trying to ask advice on not be shot down by the HHO horrors who once again more or less accuse her of being cruel :rolleyes:

FH, for door booting try a rubber matt on the door and totally ignore her, one of my lot used to be quite an avid door kicker, we ignored her and used rubber and she stopped :)
 
I do agree with some posters that she is exhibiting these behaviours becuase she is bored and stressed. I know that these are not the answers that you want to hear, but people are probably speaking from their own experiences and just want to offer you an opinion from a different angle and help you both lead an easier life with hopefully less problems to deal with in the future. :) insert smiley because i mean this in a nice way.

My filly spent her 1st/2nd year with a herd of other yearlings. They were like a gang of 'hoodies' getting up to so much mischief with each other and having races that they had no time for activities such as fence gobbling and the like!.

Yes, they were splattered in mud, covered in scuff marks here and there with bits of mane missing, but they were well socialised, young loving and fit young horses ready and fresh minded to begin their careers as riding horses.

Is there anway that you could find somewhere else for Puzzle which offers turnout suitable for young horses (preferably with other youngsters)?. I know it's hard to find good grazing, i know for sure!. But it might end up being something you'd wished youd done ages ago.
 
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She's not going anywhere else she's fine as she is at ours, well socialised and happy. I actually can't believe reading this through what some people have been suggesting- I love my pony to the end of the earth and back and she has a pretty damn perfect life. She is being a troublesome youngster as they all are, and I wanted some advice on how to manage that, not to be told that I should give her to someone else because she's being mistreated FFS.
 
flamehead said:
She's not going anywhere else she's fine as she is at ours, well socialised and happy. I actually can't believe reading this through what some people have been suggesting- I love my pony to the end of the earth and back and she has a pretty damn perfect life. She is being a troublesome youngster as they all are, and I wanted some advice on how to manage that, not to be told that I should give her to someone else because she's being mistreated FFS.
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No-one is accusing you of cruelty. She doesn't come close to having a perfect life. She is clearly stressed out and bored, you came on expecting (?) sympathy for having forked out £17 for a load of chemical crap and £600 for repairs which wouldn't have happened if her life were more ... perfect. I take it this is your first youngster?
 
flamehead said:
Does that suit you, oh HHO Gestapo?!
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Doesn't need to suit me, my youngster is out running and playing with her mates and being taught manners far more effectively by the elders than ever a human can.
Just don't ask for advice on preventing signs of stress and boredom and get in a huff when you don't like what you hear.
 
no one said you are mistreating her, just that you are shooting yourself in the foot with your current managment and setting her up for bigger issues in the future.

iv no doubt you love her, but you have to love her with common sense and fairness, and not let her become a precocious brat because she's bored and you think food/snacks/sweets/treats=love.
 
I've not read the whole thread but just thought I'd add something. Horses that are fed treats/ lickits/ titbits etc can get hooked on a specific taste for something and then chew/ eat/ demolish anything insight to try and find the same taste again. Do you think this could be happening to your youngster with her eating her stable/ fencing? Also horses don't understand treat balls as they are not natural hunters, they don't hunt for grass so having to work the ball for a treat/ food can get some horse quite frustrated.

Re the kicking, whatever is causing her to exhibit this behaviour I would think is more than just 'being a youngster/ pushing the boundaries', she's trying to tell you something that she needs or is missing. I have a youngster and I know how puzzling and sometimes frustrating it can be but the answer often ends up being the simplest change in management etc.

Ultimately it's your horse and only you can do what you feel is right for her.
 
flamehead said:
She's not going anywhere else she's fine as she is at ours, well socialised and happy. I actually can't believe reading this through what some people have been suggesting- I love my pony to the end of the earth and back and she has a pretty damn perfect life. She is being a troublesome youngster as they all are, and I wanted some advice on how to manage that, not to be told that I should give her to someone else because she's being mistreated FFS.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting that you are mistreating her; perhaps you're a bit misguided in the needs of young horses, but that isn't the same as out and out mistreatment of her. It's quite simple really, your youngster is bored and is showing signs of stress. You can believe this or not, it doesn't make any difference to anyone on here, but many of us have been raising youngsters for a long time and the environment you are raising your youngster in is without question not ideal. Yes some older horses live in this type of situation but they are just that, older. Older horses are better at coping than youngsters.

I would hope that everyone who has commented on this thread has done so in good faith, as have I, and that there are no axes to grind. So many horses end up with stereotypies and problems later in life because of inadequate situations imposed on them at young ages. Often due to inappropriate weaning methods or being kept in pens at important stages of their life where psychological and physiological development is occurring.

So, you can take this information that everyone is giving you and you can act on it, or you can ignore it. It's entirely up to you.
 
flamehead said:
She's not going anywhere else she's fine as she is at ours, well socialised and happy. I actually can't believe reading this through what some people have been suggesting- I love my pony to the end of the earth and back and she has a pretty damn perfect life. She is being a troublesome youngster as they all are, and I wanted some advice on how to manage that, not to be told that I should give her to someone else because she's being mistreated FFS.
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No one has suggested that you give her to someone else, that would be unfair on her and you.

People have suggested ways of managing her behaviour; anti chewing paints, carpet on the door, swedes hanging up, going out for walks, treat balls etc etc.

People have also suggested that she would benefit from turnout 24/7 in a herd situation, which would also be a way of managing her behaviour.

The choice is down to you, of course you know your girl better than we do!!. But we can just suggest things from our own life experiences and you can pick and take what you want from them. :)
 
FH the poster you originally mentioned on here with the mane bags, i think i know who you meen, ive got her on FB so will drop her a pm now.
 
Anything you hang up needs to be out of reach of anything where it can be wedged, thus preventing your horse "holding"it against a wall, getting a purchase and scoffing the lot! So the thing on a string is constantly bobbing and moving. we hang up whole sugar beet from time to time. the horses love them, but can't push them against anything, so they last ages.
 
Flamehead, ignore the posters that think they are the most important people on the planet and their way, and only their way is correct.

From reading the WHOLE thread (maybe some people should try that!) Puzzle is either turned out in a field or a pen for the day so is able to mooch about and stretch her legs.
Her kicking sounds much more like an attention thing rather than stress so ignoring the kicking and not rewarding her with food/attention to "shut her up". She'll soon grow out of it.

She sounds like she is very loved, is getting a good standard of care and will grow up to be a cracking little horse.
 
Caterpillar, you actually got it. Thank you. This is exactly what I meant.

Jhoward, superstar, thank you!

Dunkley, annoyingly if it is totally swinging rather than at least up against a wall, she ignores it. So I now tie it on a long string so it is hard to pin completely but she can get a certain amount of grip on it. xxx
 
1. I'd hang a swede or similar from the roof away from the walls - harder for them to eat.

2. I'd staple/nail/glue a really rough doormat to the inside of the door to deaden noise and to be very prickly etc so not so nice!

3. Not sure!

Fingers crossed something works for you x
 
Thanks love. Prickly doormat is DEFINITELY looking like the way to go!

She was much better today, only kicked for about a minute whilst I was mucking out, then stopped. When she stopped and was silent completely I made a fuss of her. xxx
 
On the mane issue....get some Canter Mane and Tail conditioner. It is THE best thing in my grooming kit for my hairies. For really bad tangles, spray it on....don't be shy with it. Leave for 5 mins then brush the tangles out from the bottom. When you've brushed it all out, give the mane or tail another good spritz, lift it up so you get underneath too,then a final brush though. You can get away with doing this once or twice a week and it will stay tangle free and easy to brush. :)
 
Starbar, I did used to use Canter all the time, then I changed to Dreamcoat and its just not as good! Maybe its good for shows but for winter think I definitely need to revert to the Canter!
 
Persephone had some really good ideas :)

My rising 3 year old colt is in 24/7 at the moment, and he's been a star. He's got access to hay 24/7, a big likit in a box thing, a snack ball and has a little lunch of grass.

He's walked up the roads and bridle ways when it's light enough, and either lunged, handwalked or long-reined the other days.

Youngsters with little turn out is a pain, but it can be dealt with :) Good luck!
 
for the kicking door situation i was told that if you get a spur strap and threasd on some nuts (nut and bolt...nuts) and strap it around the coronette band, when they kick the door it digs in and stops them, don't know if it actually works but it would be worth a try :D good luck
 
Eriskayowner said:
Mr sheen (the furniture polish) is the same (ingredient wise) as canter coat shine. I'm sure the supermarket brands are also very similar so would be much cheaper option :)
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Ahah! I knew using Mr Sheen was genius! :D Very interesting, I'd never thought to look :)

Canter is fab, just spray and leave for a while then brush out.
 
FH, I'd be tempted to duct-tape her feet together and wrap some around her muzzle, stickin a straw out so she can at least drink....failing that....duct-tape all legs together so she just lays there...

Problem solved!

:D
 
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