Pyo op. fur coat changes - remedies?

[PurBee]

Hey folks,

I’ve googled a fair bit about this issue, but drawing a large blank from vets schools/dog studies etc. There’s barely any mention of this issue. Wondering if any dog lovers here have come across this and can offer some suggestions?

My female gsdXhusky 10yrs old had a sudden pyometra last year after her normal spring season, which resulted in a full hysterectomy operation.
I specifically asked the vet what was removed, and he confirmed womb/uterus and ovaries.
Since then her fur has drastically changed.
It’s very dry, and lost its silkyness - its really a dramatic change. It mats so easily, like balls of dreadlocks, forming in places it never used to, due to her fur changing texture.
Im sure she’s also growing far more ’insulation, down’ hair beneath the long coat, as she has moulted more times than usual spring moult. Its this under-fur thats also very dry and mats easily.

I know human endocrinology hormone shifts due to menopause suddenly induced via hysterectomy can cause dry hair, skin changes, mood changes etc, and women normally take hrt like estrogen and progesterone so their bodies adjust more slowly.

I cant give hrt to my dog though!
There’s no other noticeable symptoms, shes still as active with me around the farm, her mood is somewhat withdrawn recently as her life-long buddy died at xmas.…but she now plays with the cats, and loves life.

She’s on a great varied diet that contains real cooked various meat/organs and some veg - shes done so well on it over the yrs. Her coat changed from being okay to fabulous when i switched her off grains a number of yrs ago.

But losing her ovaries and thus various important hormones, her fur has quickly, since the operation, really suffered.
I agreed to pyo surgery because it was life-essential as she got suddenly very ill - i didnt compute at the time it would mean removing her hormone ovary glands too….thought it would be womb and uterus, as most websites stated. I didnt think to check with vets prior, and got it confirmed after. Kicking myself now, as they could have left the ovaries, possibly.

Wondering if giving omega’s would help? Anyone know of this post-op effect of hysterectomy in dogs?

 

[AmyMay]

How long ago was the surgery?

 

[Roxylola]

Very common in spaniels, known in collies as well. My spaniel is raw fed and was spayed about 6, her coat isn't as beautiful as it was but still OK. By the sound though you're not far off with your feed anyway

 

[SusieT]

Just brush her more..

 

[Aru]

It may be the hormonal changes after desexing but at her age could also be due to other underlying illness-cushings and thyroid issues being the big ones that need to be ruled out. I'd get a health check some bloods done. Thyroid often isn't checked in standard blood tests.

If she passes the health check then its usually an increased density of the undercoat. Using a good undercoat rake can make a massive difference and the coat a bit more managable. I also know several people with older dogs with the excessive coats who do a belly clip and sanitary clip for comfort and managablity. It may also improve as you go through the first seasonal changeover of coat as well.

https://www.petnetwork.com.au/produ...os=8&_sid=98b2beaa0&_ss=r&variant=24276271239 this is one of the better styles of rake for those big undercoats btw.

Pyo means everything needed to be removed. Ovaries uterus etc. Leaving the ovaries and only removing the uterus/womb would leave you at risk of a stump pyometra next season if there's even the smallest amount of uterine tissue still present. Pyometra isn't just a simple bacterial infection it's also related to the hormonal changes so the ovaries had to go.

 

[PurBee]

How long ago was the surgery?

Around a year ago…coat started to slowly change after that, a year on, its drastically more dry/frizzy, rather than smooth/silky.

 

[PurBee]

It may be the hormonal changes after desexing but at her age could also be due to other underlying illness-cushings and thyroid issues being the big ones that need to be ruled out. I'd get a health check some bloods done. Thyroid often isn't checked in standard blood tests.

If she passes the health check then its usually an increased density of the undercoat. Using a good undercoat rake can make a massive difference and the coat a bit more managable. I also know several people with older dogs with the excessive coats who do a belly clip and sanitary clip for comfort and managablity. It may also improve as you go through the first seasonal changeover of coat as well.

https://www.petnetwork.com.au/produ...os=8&_sid=98b2beaa0&_ss=r&variant=24276271239 this is one of the better styles of rake for those big undercoats btw.

Pyo means everything needed to be removed. Ovaries uterus etc. Leaving the ovaries and only removing the uterus/womb would leave you at risk of a stump pyometra next season if there's even the smallest amount of uterine tissue still present. Pyometra isn't just a simple bacterial infection it's also related to the hormonal changes so the ovaries had to go.

Yes, i too was wondering if seasonal coat change will help. Worth considering bloods, thanks for the suggestion.

I did consider clipping …like a underneath clip, will wait and see how this spring moult goes.

 

[PurBee]

Just brush her more..

im more concerned about the condition of her fur and treating the root cause of the dryness - the ease of matting is a side-effect, which sure, is easily remedied with brushing and clipping, but doesnt address the underlying cause.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's pretty common post-spay for coats to go wonky.
Susie T isn't wrong though, brushing or massaging with hands daily activates the sebaceous glands which helps keep the coat healthy, as well as all the other benefits.

 

[Bellasophia]

I would also use a rake on her coat.It will gently remove a lot of dead undercoat.
I’ve also used this supplement which contains zinc and biotin..mirracoat powder..I used to show my Australian silky terrier and the breeder swore by this to give luster and shine to her dogs coats.
https://www.drugs.com/vet/mirra-coat-powder.html
also google mirracoat and you will see what many breeders think of it..

 

[MissTyc]

I had to clip out my GSD x Rottie after her coat blew when she was about 10 years old - it was like no supplement, no brushing, etc could save it. Once fully clipped out (like a pony, I even did my leg lines the same), I did an aggressive skin treatment routine - Oatmeal shampoo if she got too muddy and I also massaged in Nonstinky stuff ... As the coat grew back it was soft and glossy again. In my dog's case, I think it was the skin moisture/PhD/whatever that I just couldn't get to until the hair was gone. She did look funny ... I did end up clipping her out more regularly as she seemed happier like that. I swear by the Nonstinky stuff as a very light massage across the whole coat.

 

[Clodagh]

I met a spaniel bitch recently who was spayed and you couldn’t tell, her coat was amazing. A thorough daily grooming apparently works wonders.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Spaying can cause coats to change, but so can ageing. I've had a couple of bitches whose undercoat has got more dense but usually very little change in coat. Freya is 10 next month, was spayed at 2 and her coat hasn't altered. As suggested, a decent undercoat rake will help, you could also give salmon oil which would help her skin and in turn her coat. No need to kick yourself for not asking for ovaries to be left, I'm pretty sure with an emergency spay due to pyo everything needs to come out.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

You might not be able to give hrt but you can give hormone tablets. I have known both dogs and cats that had to take the tablets post neutering. One reason why I don't routinely spay my dogs. I would speak to the vet.

 

[PurBee]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone….you’ve given me lots of ideas to try.
I’ve always used rakes on her for the under-fur, and bought another one this year, slightly different design. I get out quite a bit of under-fur.
The texture of her under-fur is now like candy floss right close to the skin. It brushes differently. I did get the clippers on very dense fluff regions.

Ive just been looking back at pics - im amazed really as even in september 2021 her fur looks fairly good, thats 6 months after pyo op. A pic taken recently shows that its probably this winter coat which really has changed. She’s lost a lot of her long outer hair and is more like a fluffy bear!

I’ll have to see how this spring moult goes and what coat comes from it.

Top pic september, bottom pic last week:

 

[Bellasophia]

The paler colour is because she is thick with undercoat..if you can get this out with the shedding rake you will see the top coat coming back in.For every hair in a follicle there are twelve undercoat hairs ( I read)..so liberating the follicles of undercoat really helps the new top coat.

My schnauzer was spayed at nine months after her first season.I strip her coat regularly and she’s got a super hard top coat..so in her case,even a very early spay didn’t change the top coat..it’s the stripping out the undercoat that’s been effective.

another perspective..if you clip a terrier type you will lose it’s deep colour s because you are cutting off the coat,leaving the follicles blocked with undercoat..
if you strip a terrier type,the follicles are free to grow new coat and the top coat gets a better chance to grow and do it’s job( giving colour and waterproofing to the dog).

 

[Books'n'dogs]

My long coated German Shepherd was spayed in February 2017 because of pyometra, she is 12 years old now and there has definitely been a slight change in her coat since her spay but I think it's actually softer and more wooly than before, it doesn't seem to be too bad of a thing on the mornings that have been -20° F since she is my only dog who doesn't shiver/race for the house! Over the past 5 years I've noticed her coat is more effected by seasonal changes rather than hormones as it previously was, she no longer blows her coat like she used to previously but the wooly undercoat diminishes in the warm months if I'm diligent about grooming her.

Your girl is gorgeous, btw!

 

[SusieT]

'another perspective..if you clip a terrier type you will lose it’s deep colour s because you are cutting off the coat,leaving the follicles blocked with undercoat..
if you strip a terrier type,the follicles are free to grow new coat and the top coat gets a better chance to grow and do it’s job( giving colour and waterproofing to the dog).
'
Quesiton - how does clipping block the follicles? Scientifically speaking?

 

[Bellasophia]

clipping leaves the roots in the follicle along with the base stumps of the hairs...if there are more undercoat hair stumps left behind, the coat looks paler…and is softer too…
whereas stripping pulls out the whole dead hairs ,roots and all.
Its comparable to cutting a forest and leaving the roots and stumps.The dogs skin is choked with soft stumps of undercoat hair..

If you clip a terrier ,the coat becomes paler in colour and is soft( predominately undercoat) you cut away the harsher guard hairs on top of the coat.
if you strip a terrier,you first use a specific knife to,pull out undercoat..( carding the coat)
then a different grade of knife to grip the longer guard hairs..( stripping the coat)the coat becomes predominately guard hair..waterproofing the dog and giving a richer colour.

trust me it’s an art form..

 

[PurBee]

My long coated German Shepherd was spayed in February 2017 because of pyometra, she is 12 years old now and there has definitely been a slight change in her coat since her spay but I think it's actually softer and more wooly than before, it doesn't seem to be too bad of a thing on the mornings that have been -20° F since she is my only dog who doesn't shiver/race for the house! Over the past 5 years I've noticed her coat is more effected by seasonal changes rather than hormones as it previously was, she no longer blows her coat like she used to previously but the wooly undercoat diminishes in the warm months if I'm diligent about grooming her.

Your girl is gorgeous, btw!

Yes, its a very soft woolly underfur. The outer seems vastly drier and frizzy than before.
I tried to look close to the skin follicles but its almost impossible now due to dense fluffiness. She’d certainly suit -20 climate, it’s amazing how rain/snow and cold doesnt penetrate their thick fur. She revels in all weathers except hot sunshine.
She usually moults a fair amount in spring, so im keen to see what this springs moulting will be like. She seemed to do another moult in autumn, which was strange, but re-grew more fluff quite rapidly to be set for winter.
Luckily she loves being groomed, so allows me to tackle the fluff ?

She’s a very sweet friendly dog. The vets love her. Mum was pure white husky, dad larger black and tan long-haired GS. The large litter she’s from had an assortment of colours. There’s a dog who is the spitting image of her here locally, as my OH saw what he thought was her running across the land, but it completely ignored him when he called, while our dog was with me at the time, unbeknownst to him. We got her as a pup very locally, and there was only 1 other litter mate exact same colouring/markings as her, so i suspect a very local person had that pup, and they almost met each other if she had been with OH that day!

 

[PurBee]

clipping leaves the roots in the follicle along with the base stumps of the hairs...if there are more undercoat hair stumps left behind, the coat looks paler…and is softer too…
whereas stripping pulls out the whole dead hairs ,roots and all.
Its comparable to cutting a forest and leaving the roots and stumps.The dogs skin is choked with soft stumps of undercoat hair..

If you clip a terrier ,the coat becomes paler in colour and is soft( predominately undercoat) you cut away the harsher guard hairs on top of the coat.
if you strip a terrier,you first use a specific knife to,pull out undercoat..( carding the coat)
then a different grade of knife to grip the longer guard hairs..( stripping the coat)the coat becomes predominately guard hair..waterproofing the dog and giving a richer colour.

trust me it’s an art form..
View attachment 86987

wow bellasophia…im shipping my dog to you and you can sort her out! ??

 

[Bellasophia]

If I google u tube there are really good videos on using a shedding tools..on longer coated dogs..I bet you’d get a bucket full of dead hair on your first try..Id use a tool like thison your dog….it’s referred to as un undercoat shedding rake..mars do a huge range and you will find your breed does well wil a specific one..see link below..type in yr breed.
https://www.marsgroomingproducts.com.au/pet-grooming-products/coat-king
what you don’t want is a furminator. Which has a blade in it.
these tools ,like in the pic,have no blades( the hooked teeth are sometimes called “blades “ lol),,but they do not have a cutting blade per se)

 

[skinnydipper]

whereas stripping pulls out the whole dead hairs ,roots and all.

PurBee's dog is not a terrier, she is a GSD x. She should not go anywhere near that dog's coat with a stripping knife or coat king.

For every hair in a follicle there are twelve undercoat hairs ( I read)..so liberating the follicles of undercoat really helps the new top coat.

Nonsense.

 

[Bellasophia]

spaniels are not terriers either,but their coatsaddle can be stripped rather than shaved to preseve colour and avoid the soft undercoat scenario as discussed.
Re liberatingfollicles..

this link is for Susie..it refers to terrier,but explains the concept of liberating undercoat very well.
https://www.playbarkrun.com/hand-stripping-dogs/

i see my fan club ,the crow and dipper are in chorus once again.
No one was suggesting the gsd cross should be stripped.
Fly down ladies.

 

[CorvusCorax]

OK, lifelong German Shepherd owner here, currently own an 11 year old LSH with a superb coat. At least one respondent on this thread can personally comment on the condition of my dogs, I will leave them to identify themselves.
Best thing to use is your hands. Second best thing to use is a Mikki anti-tangle rake. Long, round teeth. Do not use any sort of blade. Feed oils.

 

[skinnydipper]

Neither GSDs or Huskys are wire coated breeds.

There is absolutely no need to pull a German Shepherd's hair out by the roots. I also would never clip.

 

[Bellasophia]

as I saId above “what you don’t want is a furminator which has a blade in it.
these tools ,like in the pic,have no blades( the hooked teeth are sometimes called “blades “ lol),,but they do not have a cutting blade per se)”


the undercoat of gsd is in discussion,ergo undercoat shedding rake was discussed..noone suggested the OP s dog should have it’s top hair pulled out.

We have had this discussion before and you were equally misinformed about the difference between a shedding rake,a shedding blade,a furminator,and the meaning of “ blade” in the discussion which are the curved teeth of the tool…it is not a cutting tool.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Right, for the avoidance of all doubt: no sharpy jaggy edgy cutty bois if at all possible.

The undercoat of a GSD is very important. Remove the dead bits only.

 

[skinnydipper]

 

[skinnydipper]

We have had this discussion before and you were equally misinformed about the difference between a shedding rake,a shedding blade,a furminator,and the meaning of “ blade” in the discussion which are the curved teeth of the tool…it is not a cutting tool.

Thank you for reminding me.

You have saved me the trouble of copying the information again from the manufacturer's website which confirms the implement that you are recommending does indeed cut hair.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/dog-drying-coats.808198/#post-14684279