Q for Ester and Soloequestrian - pretty please?

[muff747]

I've been reading up on worming and just wanted confirmation that I'm doing the right thing - if you don't mind me picking your brains
I keep my 26yo gelding in a paddock seperated by elec fencing in between others. He was diagnosed with PPID in 2009 and has been on Pergolide up until January this year. (He was inadvertantly dosed incorrectly and ended up on a very low dose but his ACTH was normal so I stopped the Pergo until the levels go up again, if they do)
I poo pick regularly - at least twice a week but mostly daily.
Low results from an FEC end of February so I gave him Verm-X wormer for five days and then another test this week came back medium count!
I'm confused at that result but was planning on doing a 5 day Panacur - is this best or if not what do you recommend?
Thanks

 

[ester]

Oh gosh my name in a post title, was a bit worrying!

So your poo picking regime will be sufficient to break the cycle so to speak, particularly given current temperatures!

My probable suggestion would be that the FEC in February was quite possibly inaccurate and he may actually have been a 'medium' then too (and that the verm-x does diddly squat ). Alternatively you might have had some emergence of encysted redworm that are now producing eggs- but Im not sure if they will think its spring or not! Out of interest did you count last grazing season too?

I'm not aware as to whether cushings horses are more sensitive to wormers/more problems with footiness if treated with wormers? you might be able to enlighten on that one.

If mine I'd probably give a dose of ivermectin over panacur (although I would have done the panacur (or moxidectin) over winter in order to avoid an encysted emergence issue- Theorectically if you have had a summer of low counts you shouldn't have much a problem with them but that's only the theory and I don't like to take the risk.

Does that help?

 

[muff747]

Sorry to worry you, but glad you replied!
Yes it does to some extent. I'll read again tomorrow and digest a bit more, it's a bit late now, need my bed

 

[soloequestrian]

Yikes, me too - never had my name in a thread title before!

Do you know what figure a 'medium' count was, in eggs per gram? Do you know how many samples the first test was based on?
There is no established 'dangerous level' of worm eggs - 500 eggs per gram would be generally considered high, but there is no real reason for this, it's just a figure that someone plucked out of the air at some point in the past.
I would steer clear of Panacur. Benzimidazole has huge problems with resistance now, and it doesn't matter how it is administered, if the worms are resistant, it will not harm them.
I have seen a situation where horses were wormed with benzimidazole and then recounted for eggs and in some of them their burdens had increased massively two weeks post worming.
If you are worried about the medium count, worm with either ivermectin or pyrantel and then have regular tests through the summer. My view of encysted worms is that if you have low counts during the summer months, you are highly unlikely to have any issues with emerging encysted worms the next year - it wouldn't be evolutionarily sensible - but bear in mind that this is a hypothesis only!
The other option would be just to wait a few weeks and egg count again.

Mine get done once per year, in the autumn, with something that treats both redworm and tapeworm. I used a combination wormer for the first time this year (ivermectin and praziquantel) and it made my Cushings mare very squitty. I would be very sceptical of Vermex.

Have you talked to the company/vet/ whoever did the egg count?

 

[muff747]

you might have had some emergence of encysted redworm that are now producing eggs- but Im not sure if they will think its spring or not! Out of interest did you count last grazing season too?

Yes, I had a medium count (950 e.p.g.)in August for strongyles. Twelve months prior to that he had been mixing with other horses but I had been getting zero or low counts but then he must have picked up some worms and since then the results have been low or medium so now I want to get back on top of them now he's back in his own paddock.

I'm not aware as to whether cushings horses are more sensitive to wormers/more problems with footiness if treated with wormers? you might be able to enlighten on that one.
It had been reported on the EC/IR group about the adverse reaction to the combination wormers, and I think also on the Phoenix barefoot site,, there has been reports of some wormers causing footiness or even quite an extreme reaction to some chemicals, sorry can't remember which one now

Does that help?

Yes thanks

 

[muff747]

Yikes, me too - never had my name in a thread title before!
There you are - fame at last

Do you know what figure a 'medium' count was, in eggs per gram? Do you know how many samples the first test was based on?
Yes 950 e.p.g and only one sample

In 2008-the first FEC I'd ever done, results came back 1800e.p.g! That was despite being wormed along with the yard routine.

Have you talked to the company/vet/ whoever did the egg count?

Not yet, would it be best to do that?

 

[ester]

I think the problem has mostly been with equest/pramox iirc and do wonder how much the paste carriers are to blame rather than the chemical itself. They don't seem to worry Frank thankfully (though he was neg for cushings).

I think I'd stick with previous suggestion of ivermectin now (so eqvalan/eraquell or similar) and get another count done in 6 weeks or so- mid may? (won't necessarily be nothing as will likely pick up some more in the meantime) then if you continue your poo-pick regime you may well be ok in the summer (I'd test again in another 6-8 weeks so august ish). It is one of those things where youngsters and oldies can be a bit more prone with the rest often having pretty low burdens.

Just a tip re doing the FECs if you can collect a few fresh looking piles pop them all in a barrow and give them a good mix- take your sample from that and if you do counts may and aug after treating now you should get a reasonable impression of how efficient your poo-picking is .

Oh and feel free to ask any more questions/pm, I've no particular qualifications over and above being a science bod that has played with lots of sheep poo/done lots of maths on it but hopefully it helps

 

[Verm-XAdvice]

Hello muff747

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