KenRehill
Well-Known Member
at 9pm, the Zangersheide World Championship six year old qualifiers are on H&C.
Quainton six year olds on H&C tonight
- Thread starter KenRehill
- Start date
AmyMay
Situation normal
Will be interested to watch. Didn't particularly like any of the 5 year olds.....
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
The 2 I liked although they both had unlucky rounds/were having off days were Lancelot Quainton and Warrior (Brendons). There was one other who was I believe by Armitage that I though looked promising.
AmyMay
Situation normal
[ QUOTE ]
Lancelot Quainton..
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I thought he was one of the nicer of the bunch.
Lancelot Quainton..
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I thought he was one of the nicer of the bunch.
KenRehill
Well-Known Member
I thought the Armitage 5YO was very nice, and Mark being a mate had nothing to do with it.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Will be interested to watch. Didn't particularly like any of the 5 year olds.....
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't impressed at all, sort of liked Quaintons stallion that dropped two poles and a grey, wasn't bowled over by any though...
Will be watching!
Will be interested to watch. Didn't particularly like any of the 5 year olds.....
[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't impressed at all, sort of liked Quaintons stallion that dropped two poles and a grey, wasn't bowled over by any though...
Will be watching!
cazzy
Well-Known Member
Warrior won a championship class at South of England show a couple of weeks ago.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Well, just as unimpressed by the six year old's that I saw, as the 5 year olds. I did like Chauvinist - but that was about it. I didn't watch the whole programme as it was a bit soul destroying. But if that's the best we are doing - then it's very sad. I think that the smaller breeder's - such as my friend who I livery with - and many people on here are breeding nicer horses, with confirmation to match.
The horses I saw yesterday mainly looked confirmationally poor - and like the TB industry it seems that a lot of horses are being bred for their lines, with little consideration of the confirmational outcome.
The production was no better than the 5 year olds we saw the other day, in many cases. And it did nothing to promote British breeding in my eyes.
On a slightly different note, I thought the surface the horses were being asked to jump on was appalling, and a lot of them seemed to struggle with it.
The horses I saw yesterday mainly looked confirmationally poor - and like the TB industry it seems that a lot of horses are being bred for their lines, with little consideration of the confirmational outcome.
The production was no better than the 5 year olds we saw the other day, in many cases. And it did nothing to promote British breeding in my eyes.
On a slightly different note, I thought the surface the horses were being asked to jump on was appalling, and a lot of them seemed to struggle with it.
The Voice
Well-Known Member
To be fair, this was the first time the event was held and was early in the year, which I beleive is being addressed. The going at Quainton is normally very good and produced one of the best shows on the circuit last year.
That is all not the best that people are doing as a lot of producers did not take their horses for various reasons. It is very difficult to judge a 6 yo so early in the year as the learn so much throughout the summer and this class is all part of the learning curve. Yes these classes are boring, but then a lot of showjumping classes can be as a spectator sport. You cannot bred a superstar alone but you can produce one. Breeding is all about narrowing the odds to reach a goal.
With regards to confirmation, that is down to your personal opinion, and if people you know are breeding better horses, then perhaps they should have gone to the show. Also remember that showjumpers are only interested in if a horse jumps and not what it looks like, that is down to the breeders. Using good bloodlines that produce jumpers again narrows the odds and why they are used.
As they say handsome is as handsome does.
That is all not the best that people are doing as a lot of producers did not take their horses for various reasons. It is very difficult to judge a 6 yo so early in the year as the learn so much throughout the summer and this class is all part of the learning curve. Yes these classes are boring, but then a lot of showjumping classes can be as a spectator sport. You cannot bred a superstar alone but you can produce one. Breeding is all about narrowing the odds to reach a goal.
With regards to confirmation, that is down to your personal opinion, and if people you know are breeding better horses, then perhaps they should have gone to the show. Also remember that showjumpers are only interested in if a horse jumps and not what it looks like, that is down to the breeders. Using good bloodlines that produce jumpers again narrows the odds and why they are used.
As they say handsome is as handsome does.
severnmiles
Well-Known Member
I thought the quality of the 6y.o's was much better than the 5y.o's.
Though I had to question the quality of riding after seeing that girl sitting like a sack of 5hit on the back of Sparco in the jump-off - poor horse!
Debbie J's daughter looked a smashing rider.
Nice to see the stallion parade too.
Though I had to question the quality of riding after seeing that girl sitting like a sack of 5hit on the back of Sparco in the jump-off - poor horse!
Debbie J's daughter looked a smashing rider.
Nice to see the stallion parade too.
firm
Well-Known Member
I enjoyed watching it although needed breeding info put up on screen or something. Not enough info on each horse at all so I did get a bit bored. Poor from that point of view. I also got confused - is this only for British bred horses cos the commentator kept saying it was great for Bristish breeding but then was saying the horses were Belgium bred etc. It lacked context if you had just switched on & started to watch. I have found that quite often these days at SJ events as well - good commentators make such a difference. I liked listening to him but not his info
Too many ad breaks as well but guess that is needed. Also noticed that advertisors must think the target audience watching were wrinkly constipated washer woman with heartburn
Too many ad breaks as well but guess that is needed. Also noticed that advertisors must think the target audience watching were wrinkly constipated washer woman with heartburn
Rainbowrider
Well-Known Member
Can you remember the first stallion that came out's name?
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
The first stallion in the parade is their 4 yr old Stallone Quainton who is by Silvio I
he stands at the German state stud with Lancelot Quainton
Rainbowrider
Well-Known Member
Thanks eventrider23
CharCharSlide
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well, just as unimpressed by the six year old's that I saw, as the 5 year olds. I did like Chauvinist - but that was about it. I didn't watch the whole programme as it was a bit soul destroying. But if that's the best we are doing - then it's very sad. I think that the smaller breeder's - such as my friend who I livery with - and many people on here are breeding nicer horses, with confirmation to match.
The horses I saw yesterday mainly looked confirmationally poor - and like the TB industry it seems that a lot of horses are being bred for their lines, with little consideration of the confirmational outcome.
The production was no better than the 5 year olds we saw the other day, in many cases. And it did nothing to promote British breeding in my eyes.
On a slightly different note, I thought the surface the horses were being asked to jump on was appalling, and a lot of them seemed to struggle with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think alot of what you said is not true and a bit misjudged. I jumped one in the final of every age group and although the organisation was not great (due to i being the first time it has run) I though it was a great start to helping produce young horses in this country as we are behind in the breeding etc.
With the 5 and 6 year olds there were alot of horses which went through to the jump off which shows we do have a good bunch of horses as I can assure you the tracks were big and demanding for horses of their age group so early on in the season. My 6yr old has only done a handful of shows upto newcomers level so to jump in that final with just 1 down was a big ask and a big step forward as it was a good 1.20-1.25m.
And as for the surface, what makes you think it was "appalling". It is a fantastic surface to jump on, it doesnt get deep and doesnt move to much underneath you to much but has enough spring. what would you like to see?
And with regard to conformation, I agree it is possibly not as good as maybe it could be with every horse but alot of top jumpers don't have the best and as long as they remain sound and healthy, if they perform at top level I don't really see the problem, unless of course it is in stallions. I have a horse who has not got the best conformation who has just qualified for the foxhunter final against alot of horses with 'better' conformation so I think some things are definately more important.
Well, just as unimpressed by the six year old's that I saw, as the 5 year olds. I did like Chauvinist - but that was about it. I didn't watch the whole programme as it was a bit soul destroying. But if that's the best we are doing - then it's very sad. I think that the smaller breeder's - such as my friend who I livery with - and many people on here are breeding nicer horses, with confirmation to match.
The horses I saw yesterday mainly looked confirmationally poor - and like the TB industry it seems that a lot of horses are being bred for their lines, with little consideration of the confirmational outcome.
The production was no better than the 5 year olds we saw the other day, in many cases. And it did nothing to promote British breeding in my eyes.
On a slightly different note, I thought the surface the horses were being asked to jump on was appalling, and a lot of them seemed to struggle with it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think alot of what you said is not true and a bit misjudged. I jumped one in the final of every age group and although the organisation was not great (due to i being the first time it has run) I though it was a great start to helping produce young horses in this country as we are behind in the breeding etc.
With the 5 and 6 year olds there were alot of horses which went through to the jump off which shows we do have a good bunch of horses as I can assure you the tracks were big and demanding for horses of their age group so early on in the season. My 6yr old has only done a handful of shows upto newcomers level so to jump in that final with just 1 down was a big ask and a big step forward as it was a good 1.20-1.25m.
And as for the surface, what makes you think it was "appalling". It is a fantastic surface to jump on, it doesnt get deep and doesnt move to much underneath you to much but has enough spring. what would you like to see?
And with regard to conformation, I agree it is possibly not as good as maybe it could be with every horse but alot of top jumpers don't have the best and as long as they remain sound and healthy, if they perform at top level I don't really see the problem, unless of course it is in stallions. I have a horse who has not got the best conformation who has just qualified for the foxhunter final against alot of horses with 'better' conformation so I think some things are definately more important.
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
Hear hear CharCharSlide this is the first year and event like this has been run in this country and whilst yes there are improvements that need to be made (and they are doing so!), competitions like this are a breath of fresh air in this country and will now hopefully grow on to bigger and better things. You also have to remember that, as Ken and others have already said, watching 5 and 6 yr olds jump will never be nearly as exciting as watching grand prix horses jump and so it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. We all moan that horsey things do not get enough air time on the TV and so we shouldnt moan then when it is
after all the channel is still in its infancy and the presenters and co. need to become more experienced, etc but give it time and it will improve! (If you remember Channel 5 when they started
it was awful!!!)
AmyMay
Situation normal
[ QUOTE ]
And as for the surface, what makes you think it was "appalling
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah intersting to get a riders view point - thanks for that. It seemed like a terribly hard surface when watching it on TV - but obviously I was wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
And with regard to conformation, I agree it is possibly not as good as maybe it could be with every horse but alot of top jumpers don't have the best and as long as they remain sound and healthy, if they perform at top level I don't really see the problem
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you up to a point. However, you will only serve to weaken the ability of a horse to perform if people continue to breed from confirmationaly suspect horses.
I absolutely support British breeding 100% and it's fantastic to see efforts being made in this area in our competition horses. But I think that there's a long way to go in many respects.
And as for the surface, what makes you think it was "appalling
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah intersting to get a riders view point - thanks for that. It seemed like a terribly hard surface when watching it on TV - but obviously I was wrong.
[ QUOTE ]
And with regard to conformation, I agree it is possibly not as good as maybe it could be with every horse but alot of top jumpers don't have the best and as long as they remain sound and healthy, if they perform at top level I don't really see the problem
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you up to a point. However, you will only serve to weaken the ability of a horse to perform if people continue to breed from confirmationaly suspect horses.
I absolutely support British breeding 100% and it's fantastic to see efforts being made in this area in our competition horses. But I think that there's a long way to go in many respects.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
If people are judging this competition (and the horses in it) to be "substandard" I'm curious to know what the measure is.
Olympia? There simply can't be any comparison. This is not a GP competition and does not really have the same potential to fill seats, at least until people know what they're looking at. I'm not privy to the figures but I'm also betting they had nothing like the resources at their disposal.
To similar competitions on the Continent? Again, not really fair. Those competitions have been running for years, decades in some cases. They also exist in a far more advantageous social context, with much more general public interest in the sport and A LOT more money to play with. It's also a numbers game - while many of the horses that reach the finals are top class the pool, relative to the UK, is HUGE. I'd bet if you had a look at the conformation, even the ability of the group over all (already "chosen" since not every horse bred jumps in those comps to begin with) you would see some horses with less than perfect conformation.
Again, not excusing it - people *should* breed only the best - but it's naive to think the "big" studbooks are breeding nothing but ideal products. (This brings up the subject of "culling" but I've learned to stay away from that one. . .
) And, as anywhere, production is a big part of success in these things - it's not always the "best" horse that succeeds, it's the best of the best produced. So what comes to the ring, especially in competitions like this, may not always be completely representative. Which doesn't make them not useful, it's just a point to be considered when using them to judge the whole.
Which is not to say there isn't room for constructive comment in the name of improvement, it's just to say these things are always a work in progress. They take tremendous organisation, much of it by people donating their time and energy because they really believe in the cause. Again, that doesn't mean it can't be done better, but there has to be some recognition that even having those classes is a big step in domestic sport horse production. Getting any sort of media coverage for an event like this is tough sledding and hopefully the people involved will now know a little more about how to exploit the opportunity more advantageously.
Olympia? There simply can't be any comparison. This is not a GP competition and does not really have the same potential to fill seats, at least until people know what they're looking at. I'm not privy to the figures but I'm also betting they had nothing like the resources at their disposal.
To similar competitions on the Continent? Again, not really fair. Those competitions have been running for years, decades in some cases. They also exist in a far more advantageous social context, with much more general public interest in the sport and A LOT more money to play with. It's also a numbers game - while many of the horses that reach the finals are top class the pool, relative to the UK, is HUGE. I'd bet if you had a look at the conformation, even the ability of the group over all (already "chosen" since not every horse bred jumps in those comps to begin with) you would see some horses with less than perfect conformation.
Which is not to say there isn't room for constructive comment in the name of improvement, it's just to say these things are always a work in progress. They take tremendous organisation, much of it by people donating their time and energy because they really believe in the cause. Again, that doesn't mean it can't be done better, but there has to be some recognition that even having those classes is a big step in domestic sport horse production. Getting any sort of media coverage for an event like this is tough sledding and hopefully the people involved will now know a little more about how to exploit the opportunity more advantageously.
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
Well said TarrSteps