Quantocks Court Case....

[wurzel]

I admit it. I am completely confused !!

I think I said "presumably". Maybe not. Unlike you I can't really speak for others.

I am completely confused about what to do with the deer on my land. No one knows exactly what is legal and what isn't.

It is very confusing communicating with you. A kind of alternative reality. You are sure I don't hunt. Fair enough. But unlike you I describe many of the best Stag hunts in recent times exactly.

You are welcome to test me. I mean it. You can test me to the minutest detail. Participants, Geography, Timing....you name it !!

Unfortunately Karl, you have to be a little bit honest about what is going on.

If I have to choose between hunting and a criminal record it will be hunting every time. What problem is a criminal record and fine going to cause me ?

And what shall we do about the deer Karl ? Are the National Park dealing with them?

Come on Karl try harder.

 

[wurzel]

Fascinating. Straight to the point.

Bye Bye.

 

[Paul T]

An alternative reality communicating with me? That takes some beating coming from someone who posts such gibberish as you do. I really am trying hard to understand what you're on about but you jump from one point to another and your posts don't make much sense at all.

Why are you confused about what to do with the deer on your land? Go on, provide some details for once. I can't understand why you're confused about what's legal and what isn't - especially as earlier you couldn't give a toss as you claimed you were going to go hunting come what may.

Faggot, what is the problem given that you don't care what the law says anyway?

 

[southgate1975]

Thought you'd avoid that one.

OK, the points are (IMHO).... re the subjects of this thread... they acted illegally, they were caught, they were convicted, they were punished.

 

[wurzel]

"I really am trying hard to understand what you're on about but you jump from one point to another and your posts don't make much sense at all. "

Yes it is all jolly confusing isn't it ?

"Why are you confused about what to do with the deer on your land? "

They are only kept for hunting. Simple really.

You have a choice. Hunting and deer. Or no hunting and almost no deer.

"Go on, provide some details for once."

Details? Sure. The deer eat the grass. They cause a lot of damage. I, and most others tolerate them because we go hunting. It is a kind of compensation for them being a pest.

Anything else you want to know?

"I can't understand why you're confused about what's legal and what isn't - especially as earlier you couldn't give a toss as you claimed you were going to go hunting come what may."

Two slightly different things I am sure you agree. Yes, I will hunt until I die (if you pray hard enough it could be soon), nothing will stop me. I am confused because we always use two dogs to flush to guns. But we never shoot them quick enough for the anti's. We are quite relaxed if they escape....but not the anti's.

"Faggot, what is the problem given that you don't care what the law says anyway?"

I am happy to break unjust law but that does not mean I don't think it is a problem.

Tell me what the difference is between a fox, a mouse, a deer, a rat, a rabbit and a Badger in the scope of this law ?

I think that is the problem.

 

[wurzel]

What did I avoid ?

OK, the points.....

They acted illegally. Did they? In that case the DSSH act illegally 3 times a week.

They were caught. Not hard.

They were convicted. How could it be otherwise?

They were punished. Punished ? True. Do you think they will do it again?

 

[Paul T]

""Why are you confused about what to do with the deer on your land? "

They are only kept for hunting. Simple really.

You have a choice. Hunting and deer. Or no hunting and almost no deer."

Why do I have a choice?

I still can't understand why you're prepared to break a law which you claim doesn't even ban hunting.

"Yes, I will hunt until I die (if you pray hard enough it could be soon)"

Why should I pray for your death? Unlike you I don't count myself lucky when someone dies.

"I am confused because we always use two dogs to flush to guns."

But that isn't hunting - I thought you said earlier you'll carry on hunting regardless.

"Tell me what the difference is between a fox, a mouse, a deer, a rat, a rabbit and a Badger in the scope of this law ?

I think that is the problem."

Why is that a problem to you when you're concerned with deer on your land?

The legislation is called 'The Hunting Act'. Its focus is organised hunting which, before the ban, involved packs of dogs searching for, chasing and killing mink, deer, foxes and hares. If you think the use of dogs to hunt rabbits and rats should also have been banned, for the sake of consistency, perhaps you should take that up with your sporting chums who pressed the government for an exemption for these species.

It doesn't alter the fact that hunting deer, mink, foxes, hares and other species is illegal.

It isn't difficult.

 

[southgate1975]

"What did I avoid ?
OK, the points.....
They acted illegally. Did they?"

Are you suggesting they were not acting illegally? The court said that they were. Are you trying to ignore what the court said?

"In that case the DSSH act illegally 3 times a week."
Well I wonder what a court would maek of that one.

"They were caught. Not hard. "
"They were convicted. How could it be otherwise?"

It could have been otherwise if they were innocent of crime. But I'm happy that for a change we seem to be agreeing about something.

"They were punished. Punished ? True."

Why do you question 'punished'?

"Do you think they will do it again? "

I would hope not. I would hope that if they do do it again, they'll be caught again and punished again.

 

[wurzel]

It is like running through custard.

"You have a choice. Hunting and deer. Or no hunting and almost no deer."

Why do I have a choice?

I still can't understand why you're prepared to break a law which you claim doesn't even ban hunting. "

Of course you have a choice. I presume you actively campaign to have deer hunting banned ? Trouble is you are unable to come up with an alternative.

I, on the other hand, actually do something useful. I provide the deer with habitat, I control their numbers and I take part in the count.

"I am confused because we always use two dogs to flush to guns."

But that isn't hunting - I thought you said earlier you'll carry on hunting regardless."

Yes it is hunting. I thought you were an expert in the act. You are always encouraging me to read it.

"perhaps you should take that up with your sporting chums who pressed the government for an exemption for these species.

It doesn't alter the fact that hunting deer, mink, foxes, hares and other species is illegal."

Who pressed for an exemption for rabbits?

Hunting deer and foxes is not illegal. I think you should read the act again.

Do you still not understand what happens?

 

[wurzel]

"Are you suggesting they were not acting illegally? The court said that they were. Are you trying to ignore what the court said?"

Yes. I don't give a toss what the court says. I completely ignore what the court says.

"In that case the DSSH act illegally 3 times a week."
Well I wonder what a court would maek of that one."

Who gives a toss? £500 fines all round?

"Why do you question 'punished'?"

I don't think (in fact I am sure) they feel punished. I think they feel victimised and slightly disorientated over what has happened to this country.

"Do you think they will do it again? "

I would hope not. I would hope that if they do do it again, they'll be caught again and punished again."

I am positive they will do it again. what do you think Tony Wright has been doing since his "punishment"

 

[southgate1975]

"Are you suggesting they were not acting illegally? The court said that they were. Are you trying to ignore what the court said?

Yes. I don't give a toss what the court says. I completely ignore what the court says."

Hmmm, sounds like evading the issue (of the law) to me....


"I don't think (in fact I am sure) they feel punished. I think they feel victimised and slightly disorientated over what has happened to this country."

No, they feel victimised and disoriented over what has happened to them, I think. I dont see much worry here about the country as a whole. Perhaps it's time they received some education.

 

[wurzel]

"Hmmm, sounds like evading the issue (of the law) to me...."

Well here you are correct. I break the law several times a week throughout the year. I am completely happy to do so.

I do not recognise this law in any shape or form.

I think it is pointless, intentionally vague, unenforceable with the very high probability of endangering the Red deer population on Exmoor and detrimental to animal welfare in general.

I will continue to go hunting, nod blankly at the meets when the master announces that we will be only carrying out EXEMPT hunting then heading for the hills and seeing what the day brings.


"No, they feel victimised and disoriented over what has happened to them, I think. I dont see much worry here about the country as a whole. Perhaps it's time they received some education."

If you are not worried about the country as whole you are entitled to your view. I am very worried though.

We have more CCTV in this country than the rest of Europe put together.

We have peoples DNA including thousands of innocent children being stored secretly.

We have a government who is engaged in unwinnable wars that they condemned our country (undebated) to on the basis of lies and some kids sixth form project.

We have a government who helps transport people on the way to torture.




But saying all that I welcome the education. What will be the subject and who will be conducting it ? You ?

 

[southgate1975]

"No, they feel victimised and disoriented over what has happened to them, I think. I dont see much worry here about the country as a whole. Perhaps it's time they received some education."
If you are not worried about the country as whole you are entitled to your view. I am very worried though.
We have more CCTV in this country than the rest of Europe put together.
We have peoples DNA including thousands of innocent children being stored secretly.
We have a government who is engaged in unwinnable wars that they condemned our country (undebated) to on the basis of lies and some kids sixth form project.
We have a government who helps transport people on the way to torture."

I worry about the self same things, so it's nice to know we have things in common. Unfortunately you misunderstood my last post.... by saying "I dont see much worry here about the country as a whole" I was referring to the people who seem to be focussed only on the issue of hunting as causing them disorientation over 'what has happened to this country'.

"But saying all that I welcome the education. What will be the subject and who will be conducting it ? You ? "

Sounds like you're well placed to educate the recently conviced pair about what disorientated over what really has and is happening to this country.

 

[Paul T]

"It is like running through custard."

Moulten lead, more like.

"Of course you have a choice. I presume you actively campaign to have deer hunting banned ? Trouble is you are unable to come up with an alternative."

Everyone knows there's an alternative - it's called shooting. Trouble is it's pointless mentioning any alternatives to you as you've already said you'll carry on hunting regardless. You're not open to suggestions - your mind is completely closed.

"I, on the other hand, actually do something useful. I provide the deer with habitat, I control their numbers and I take part in the count."

And you hunt them for fun.

"Yes it is hunting. I thought you were an expert in the act. You are always encouraging me to read it. "

No, hunting pre-ban involved dogs chasing deer, and that has now been banned. This point has been clarified recently by District Judge Parsons:

"...hunting typically involves the chasing of a wild animals with hounds...Parliament clearly did not wish to exempt hunting that involved the chase of the quarry...A chase is incompatible with the policy objectives of the Act."

Your 'flushing out' has been banned if it involves dogs chasing deer.

"Who pressed for an exemption for rabbits?"

Can't say I know each of their names. I'm sure at least one of them was called John.

"Hunting deer and foxes is not illegal. I think you should read the act again."

No need. Faggot, tell me, what you understand 'hunting' to involve?

 

[wrighty]

"Wrighty, have you posted on this forum before under a different alias?"
NO.

 

[wrighty]

Tom,
Do I know something about hunting or not, I thought you wanted to know.

Here come the answers of:
You only found that stuff off the internet.
Someone else told you about it.
You're only guessing.
That's common knowledge, how about something indepth.

 

[Fairynuff]

Its so nice to come back to this section (after quite some time) and find everything as it was-nothings changed! Just popped in for a quick one. Mairi.

 

[wurzel]

"Sounds like you're well placed to educate the recently conviced pair about what disorientated over what really has and is happening to this country."

Ha ha !!

Whatever you say my little friend !!

What did you say about education ?

Anyone understand what this prick is talking about ?

 

[wurzel]

"Everyone knows there's an alternative - it's called shooting. Trouble is it's pointless mentioning any alternatives to you as you've already said you'll carry on hunting regardless. You're not open to suggestions - your mind is completely closed."

You mean everyone who knows nothing about the subject !

Shooting is not an alternative. If you maintain it is, can you tell me how?

I will carry on hunting regardless of any laws. And the Red Deer will then survive as a viable herd on Exmoor.

"""No, hunting pre-ban involved dogs chasing deer, and that has now been banned. This point has been clarified recently by District Judge Parsons:

"...hunting typically involves the chasing of a wild animals with hounds...Parliament clearly did not wish to exempt hunting that involved the chase of the quarry...A chase is incompatible with the policy objectives of the Act."

Your 'flushing out' has been banned if it involves dogs chasing deer.""""

How else do we flush deer out ? I think you will find that flushing out is covered by Schedule 1 of the hunting act. Good. Now we are getting down to details !





""""Who pressed for an exemption for rabbits?"

Can't say I know each of their names. I'm sure at least one of them was called John.""""

No names ????

Did you make it up again ?


And just to help you, (remember all this education is free), I hunt to control the deer numbers. But I do have fun doing it.

beyond your understanding isn't it?

 

[southgate1975]

Oh dear. I've made a cut-and-paste error and it's caused confusion. I'm mortified.

It's OK though, I'll get over it.

 

[Paul T]

"Shooting is not an alternative. If you maintain it is, can you tell me how?

I will carry on hunting regardless of any laws. And the Red Deer will then survive as a viable herd on Exmoor."

That's what I mean, your mind is completely closed.

You ask me to justify why shooting is an alternative. How on earth does every other region of the country, except the South West, deal with the perceived problem of deer numbers if they don't have hunting? Simple - they use shooting (incidentally, just as every area of the South West outside of Exmoor and the Quantocks deals with the perceived problem. Come to think of it, even on Exmoor and the Quantocks shooting accounts for more deer killed than hunting). You're living in cloud cuckoo land, Faggot.

If that wasn't enough, the Burns Inquiry recommended shooting as an alternative. But I don't expect you to accept you're wrong because your home-spun 'commonsense' twaddle you're so fond of spouting tells us all we can't possibly be right because we're not distant relatives of yours.

You don't half spout some crap.

"Your 'flushing out' has been banned if it involves dogs chasing deer.""""

How else do we flush deer out ? I think you will find that flushing out is covered by Schedule 1 of the hunting act. Good. Now we are getting down to details ! "

Dear God, you still don't get it! Can't you understand, your obscure interpretation of 'flushing out' has been banned. Flushing out was never about chasing deer with dogs - flushing out involves forcing the deer out from hiding. It isn't difficult to do this as deer are generally timid creatures.

"And just to help you, (remember all this education is free), I hunt to control the deer numbers. But I do have fun doing it.

beyond your understanding isn't it?"

Not really. It's just that your refusal to accept that shooting is a viable alternative to hunting suggests to me it's more about your enjoyment than the desire to control deer. That's fine if that's what rings your bell, but don't treat us all as complete fools.

 

[wurzel]

"You're living in cloud cuckoo land, Faggot."

Wrong again !! I live on the side of Dunkery.



"You ask me to justify why shooting is an alternative. How on earth does every other region of the country, except the South West, deal with the perceived problem of deer numbers if they don't have hunting? Simple - they use shooting (incidentally, just as every area of the South West outside of Exmoor and the Quantocks deals with the perceived problem. "

Every area in the South west ? Where ? Give me some details ?

"Come to think of it, even on Exmoor and the Quantocks shooting accounts for more deer killed than hunting). "

Are you sure ? Where ?

I don't know how many deer have been shot and where. Can you tell me?


"If that wasn't enough, the Burns Inquiry recommended shooting as an alternative."


Well that is it then.

Is this the same Burns who concluded

"It is generally accepted that red deer numbers in Devon and Somerset need to be controlled. Hunting with dogs presently accounts for about 15% of the annual cull needed to maintain the population at its present level. However, because of the widespread support which it enjoys, and consequent tolerance by farmers of deer, hunting at present makes a significant contribution to management of the deer population in this area. In the event of a ban, some overall reduction in total deer numbers might occur unless an effective deer management strategy was implemented, which was capable of promoting the present collective interest in the management of deer and harnessing such interest into sound conservation management."

I wonder what happened ?



"But I don't expect you to accept you're wrong because your home-spun 'commonsense' twaddle you're so fond of spouting tells us all we can't possibly be right because we're not distant relatives of yours."

No, of course I am wrong. You will know much more about it. Your credentials are plain for all to see.


"It's just that your refusal to accept that shooting is a viable alternative to hunting suggests to me it's more about your enjoyment than the desire to control deer. That's fine if that's what rings your bell, but don't treat us all as complete fools."

You need to read more carefully. I think you are too busy thinking up terms of abuse. I enjoy it, especially from one who knows nothing about stag hunting, has never been and doesn't know the area.

I will write it again for you. I have to control the numbers on my farm. It IS possible to shoot them all. However, I enjoy hunting and that is why I allow them to eat my grass. It is not a charity.

Hunting, as you put it "rings my bell". That is why I continue.

If I stopped I would, like you, be a complete fool.


Which would you say was the most upsetting Stag hunt for you ?

 

[wurzel]

Of course you will.

But you will be taken more seriously if you have anything to add from your own experience.

You do a lot of guessing and it makes you look a prick.

 

[Paul T]

"Every area in the South west ? Where ? Give me some details ?"

Every area where's there are deer. Tom. Unfortunately I haven't got an up to date map of deer distribution in the South West with me at the moment, but I'm sure you have. I expect it's quite a bit of the South West as those pesky Roe Deer get everywhere, don't they?

"Are you sure ? Where ?

I don't know how many deer have been shot and where. Can you tell me?"

Oh Faggot, I'm afraid you've got me there again, I haven't got precise numbers, locations, dates and times. Perhaps you can enlighten us all?

If not, your quote from Burns helps demonstrate my point for me - hunting only contributed 15% of the total annual mortality needed to maintain numbers. Not sure what accounted for the bulk of the remaining deaths if it's not shooting. Perhaps they died of natural causes in old deer homes.

"I have to control the numbers on my farm. It IS possible to shoot them all."

Yes, and it's possible to control their numbers by shooting, but you're so blinkered you choose not to as you'll carry on hunting come what may.

For people like you there isn't a solution other than hunting because you refuse to accept anything else. If you don't get your way you make threats to wipe them all out and claim anyone who doesn't share your view must be an ignorant townie.

Your mind is closed to reason.

"Which would you say was the most upsetting Stag hunt for you ?"

Most were pretty upsetting when deer were hounded to death.

 

[wurzel]

"Every area where's there are deer. Tom. Unfortunately I haven't got an up to date map of deer distribution in the South West with me at the moment, but I'm sure you have. I expect it's quite a bit of the South West as those pesky Roe Deer get everywhere, don't they?"

Why have you started talking about Roe deer Karl ? They are not hunted by the Quantock stag hounds Karl. There aren't many on Exmoor or the Quantocks Karl. I don't know where roe deer are in the South west Karl.

What is your point Karl ?


"Oh Faggot, I'm afraid you've got me there again, I haven't got precise numbers, locations, dates and times. Perhaps you can enlighten us all? "

Yes Karl. I have got you again. I have caught you guessing haven't I Karl ? You see karl, I have no idea about the shooting statistics. You were the one who were celebrating the shooting statistics Karl. On my farm we hunt the deer Karl. It is the only way they will survive.

Don't be such a bullshitter Karl.

"If not, your quote from Burns helps demonstrate my point for me - hunting only contributed 15% of the total annual mortality needed to maintain numbers. Not sure what accounted for the bulk of the remaining deaths if it's not shooting. Perhaps they died of natural causes in old deer homes."

Not sure Karl. If you know that 85% of deer control on my farm is done by shooting I will have to bow to your superior Roe/Sitka/ Muntjac knowledge.


"Yes, and it's possible to control their numbers by shooting, but you're so blinkered you choose not to as you'll carry on hunting come what may."

The penny drops Karl. No hunting, no deer. Its not Longleat Karl.

"For people like you there isn't a solution other than hunting because you refuse to accept anything else."

You have it Karl. I refuse to accept anything else.

"If you don't get your way you make threats to wipe them all out and claim anyone who doesn't share your view must be an ignorant townie."

It is a wtershed karl. Enlightenment !!!

How do you see the end result Karl ? A healthy herd on my farm that are hunted.............or.............no deer? I know what I think is best.

"Your mind is closed to reason."

My mind is closed to idiocy and naivity.



"Most were pretty upsetting when deer were hounded to death."


Come on Karl. You are looking pretty stupid already. No deer are hounded to death. They are shot. Or in the good old days when I started they had their throats cut.


What I meant was, which stag or hind hunt have you been on that you found most upsetting ?

Try and answer the question Karl.

 

[Sika]

I hope the LACS bring dozens of these cases to court.

Huntsman gets fined a few hundred quid which may well be overturned on further appeal and each case costs LACS tens of thousands of pounds.

Sounds good to me.

 

[wrighty]

"each case costs LACS tens of thousands of pounds."
Of course, it's the money all animal campaigners are worried about and not stopping nasty blood thirsty activities.
We're all rich city dwellers so money doesn't matter to us, we are rich. hehehehe

 

[peakpark]

Good point Sika. Though thanks to Paul McCartney LACS are so rich that a few £10,000 bills won't bother them too much. However maybe that will change now Paul's got to fork out a few million to heather tee hee

 

[Eagle_day]

LACS seem to have come into some money recently: they're recruiting for 3 +£20k job positions, and they're proceeding with their 3rd private prosecution. So I guess Macca's been digging into his pocket again.

Pity LACS didn't have to pay their postage bill, eh.