Question about Cushings/EMS/Laminitis

Birker2020

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My mare who is 24 in 6 days is quite lame at the moment. She's about 17.1hh 675KG ish.

A bit of history. In Sept and Oct she went to our local vets and had both fetlocks and coffin joints medicated on her fronts - she has had coffin joint arthritis which was diagnosed in 2007 ish. Before Xmas she went lame and I stopped riding her. The vet said her coffin joint would need medicating again and we agreed we would go down the Arthramid route (booked in for Mid April when I've saved the money). She was quite lame on tarmac but only 1/10th on the surface.

She is on 1.5 sachets of bute a day.

  • I'm maintaining her weight, you can just see her ribs but is prone to gas bloat so can look fat to some.
  • She is eating/drinking normally and she shed her winter coat within normal parameters, if anything she was ahead of most on the yard on shredding her coat.
  • She has no bounding pulses
  • Her feet are not hot
  • She shows no signs of laminitis, she doesn't shuffle when tied up moving weight from one foot to another, she has a normal stance.

She is out at night and in during the day (she is in from 6am - 6pm) on a deep shavings bed. She is quite active and will run around the paddock when the mood takes her and will buck and have a right old jolly at times. It's not everyday its just now and then, usually when you are in there at the same time poo picking and she gets impatient and wants to come it. During the day she has been seen to rear up to the electric fencing to play with the horses on either side of her. I like to monitor her getting down/up rolling on a weekly basis and watched last night - she has no problems with this. She has other arthritis, namely hocks (received fusion many years ago), arthritis in neck, suspensory branch calcification near fore.

She is strip grazed and fed soaked speedibeet (a mug of dry speedibeet), a mug of pasture mix, a mug of high fibre pony nuts and a sprinkle of readigrass split between two fields with joint supplement, turmeric and pink powder added. She only has hard feed to a) get extra fluid into her b) to take the supplements/bute which due to her size are quite considerable amounts

Because she is so playful in the field the vet wants to put her on a weeks box rest after she has the Arthramid as his reasoning is that you don't want to waste time and money by not letting it settle down after injecting it and letting her run around which is fine by me.

However I have noticed that she has suddenly got a lot worse with her lameness. Up until last Friday I'd been bandaging her front legs every night and staff had taken them off in the morning. Now she's not having them on at all due to it being warmer and I didn't want her legs to get too hot in the day. I mention this in case it has any bearing on things.

She is very stiff coming out of the stable as a typical arthritic horse is, but normally this wears off after a few strides. But when walking now she looks quite sore. However as soon as she goes onto a softer surface like the track up the field (harrowed so nice and soft) the difference is most noticeable and she almost looks sound. It could be she's bruised her sole but the pads she has are quite good ones so I would be surprised if she was.

The vet wants her to stay in the Avanti horse shoes for her coffin joint to be stabilised and the farrier wants her in pads as he says she is a bit thin soled. She's shod every five weeks.

I'm wondering if she may have EMS or Cushings. The vet has always ruled this out going on her history and appearance. How do I go about getting her tested (thinking of doing it when she goes in to the vets for the day). Could she have mild laminitis?? Is it possible to have laminitis but not display any signs???

Is the voucher thing for Cushings still available?
 
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Dexter

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You cant rule on cushings by looking at a horse. I start routinely testing mine at about 15 just so I have a base line. Yes the free test is still available, you just pay call out and blood taking fees.

What you are describing is a severe laminitis attack. Horses can have laminitis and have the only sign being sore on stony ground. I'd take him off the grass and sugary hardfeed straight away and see if you get an improvement, and I'd also be booking a cushings test
 

ester

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sub (or barely) clinical lami is a thing. From their descriptions it also sounds like he has pretty compromised feet. - I do agree that it can be tricky to work out whether they are presenting stiff because of sore feet, or because of arthritis - been there and it was mostly the feet at the time.

However yours has had a lot going on for a long time so pinpointing it on anything in particular is going to be tricky. compromised hooves with thin soles, coffin arthritis and a significant shoeing package are all likely contributing.

If doing ACTH (free) test for cushings I don't think it's a good idea to do it out of their home environment in case they are a bit stressy and skew the result. The vet usually has to come at a time they can go back and post it off immediately.
 
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Chianti

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I'm afraid she sounds like my last mare. She once presented with very similar symptoms to yours in terms of movement and lack of heat in the foot and it turned out she had laminitis. I would keep he in on a deep shavings bed and get the vet out to check.
 

scats

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Sub clinical laminitis can often present as being a bit sensitive on hard/stony ground and then improving on soft ground or grass. A lot of people miss the signs because the horse seems absolutely fine once in the field.
I’d get her off the grass and onto a deep bed and book a Cushings test.
 

Birker2020

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Hi I got a call from the YO last night at 8.30pm to say she'd not settled in her field, had been running around and was now frantically walking around constantly and she was obviously lame so we rushed up there and got her in. I gave her a bute and saw her this morning and she was quite pottery still. This with 2 1/2 bute in her which was worrying.

I've rang the vet and arranged for her to come out this afternoon to find out what is going on and also to have a blood test, I spoke to the lady at the vets today and managed to get a code for the lab fees for the ACTH test.

Thanks for your help everyone. If she has laminitis I don't know what I will do, I am guessing depending on how bad she is I will have to have a really hard think about her future.
 

Birker2020

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1617263973053.pngI meant to say she has these pads back on and they are filling with dirt when she is out in the paddock, so much so that you can't hear her shoe on the tarmac as the soil is built up and she is walking on that, so her foot is no longer concave but convex. I am wondering if this additional pressure is pushing down on the coffin joint every time she places a foot on the ground and this might be what is contributing to the coffin joint pain. She is still the same when they are picked out as in picture but she would be sore anyway. Or maybe I am clutching at straws?
 

TinseLeneHorse

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I can't offer anything constructive but just wanted to say that I'm in a similar situation with my mare at the moment so you have my utmost sympathy. The farrier couldn't find anything obvious yesterday and she is still very lame today and vet is coming out later. She has cushing's but farrier doesn't think it is laminitis as she did not react to the hoof testers. Hope you get to the bottom of your girls issues.
 

Birker2020

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I can't offer anything constructive but just wanted to say that I'm in a similar situation with my mare at the moment so you have my utmost sympathy. The farrier couldn't find anything obvious yesterday and she is still very lame today and vet is coming out later. She has cushing's but farrier doesn't think it is laminitis as she did not react to the hoof testers. Hope you get to the bottom of your girls issues.
Thank you that is really kind of you to say. Good luck with your horse and the vet for later.
 

Birker2020

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Has he got dental impression material under the pad?/anything else?
Hi Ester, it's like a hoof silicone putty type of material. Injectable like in photo off the internet. The soil/mud gathers in the concave area as in the photo in reply No.7. I tried putting a sprinkle of Keratex mud shield powder on in hoping it would deter it from gathering but it didn't work.


1617267146772.png
 

ester

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yup DIM equivalent, so that's good from a pressure point of view just that some do use just pads on their own.
 

Birker2020

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yup DIM equivalent, so that's good from a pressure point of view just that some do use just pads on their own.
Yes the DIM (dental impression material) is to prevent maggots from finding a nice warm environment which is what happened with the other ones (not sure if it was these or just normal leather pads).
Anyway they'd not only moved themselves in to their new house, they'd also moved all their cousins, aunts and uncles too :p

1617269174319.png
 
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