question about insurance

StormyMoments

StormyMoments

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i was wondering if a horse has exclusions on its insurance if it is sold and re-insured by its new owner do the exclusions follow the horse or are they just given a clean insurance?

galaxy hot chocolate for anyone who replies :D
 
Presumably if the horse passes a 5 stage vetting then the new insurers will insure everything. Given that the new owner probably isn't told about anything that won't have an impact on whether the horse passes the vet it would be really difficult for the exclusions to follow the horse.

Whether that is what is meant to happen is a totally different story!
 
I doubt the seller would instantly say "he has exclusions on a policy" so the buyer would be unaware. They may know past history, that they should disclose to the insurer when taking out a new policy but basically, the insurers would place cover on what they are told by the new owner...unless you are actually transferring the policy from one name to another
 
Elbie said:
I doubt the seller would instantly say "he has exclusions on a policy" so the buyer would be unaware. They may know past history, that they should disclose to the insurer when taking out a new policy but basically, the insurers would place cover on what they are told by the new owner...unless you are actually transferring the policy from one name to another
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Nowadays most insurance policies require you to provide the passport number and more and more companies are sharing information. I would have thought that there would be a central database with horses exclusions listed by passport number. If there isn't then it would be something that most competent insurance bosses would no doubt be developing. I know I would if I was in the industry. So that begs the question, 'do they do a search on the passport number before insuring your horse?' or 'Do they do a search if you ever make a claim and then say that they will not pay out as the horse had some undisclosed (albeit unknown) exclusions?'

Interesting question.
 
MrsD123 said:
I have moved my horse around so he is with three practices............
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Hm.

If you fail to disclose to the insurer a problem of which you are aware (irrespective of whether you've claimed or not) then they are entitled to withdraw cover and cancel your policy.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted this, but moving the horse around different practices so there are three sets of medical records is classified as insurance fraud and is a criminal offence.

Not good.
 
ReefingsDad said:
Hm.

If you fail to disclose to the insurer a problem of which you are aware (irrespective of whether you've claimed or not) then they are entitled to withdraw cover and cancel your policy.

Apologies if I've misinterpreted this, but moving the horse around different practices so there are three sets of medical records is classified as insurance fraud and is a criminal offence.

Not good.
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I think MrsD was just stating that the horse has moved around, therefore has been seen with 3 different practices. Insurance co would figure it out straight away when they ask for a vet history and only get a small bit. You wouldn't believe the number of times we had to get a vet history to assist with a claim (or the vet willingly provided) and we've found conditions (and not minor things like a scratch) that weren't declared at renewal. Generally, the underwriters will just say sorry just found this out, here's an exclusion. It's when you submit a claim and blatantly lie about the histroy relating to that claim that you get in trouble!
 
Wagtail said:
Nowadays most insurance policies require you to provide the passport number and more and more companies are sharing information. I would have thought that there would be a central database with horses exclusions listed by passport number. If there isn't then it would be something that most competent insurance bosses would no doubt be developing. I know I would if I was in the industry. So that begs the question, 'do they do a search on the passport number before insuring your horse?' or 'Do they do a search if you ever make a claim and then say that they will not pay out as the horse had some undisclosed (albeit unknown) exclusions?'

Interesting question.
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At the end of the day, companies shouldn't have to. You enter a contract with the company stating you have declared all knowledge of the horse to the best of your ability. Passport numbers are just recorded but I don't think they specifically do anything with that information. They would not (and as far as I'm aware there is not) a database where vet history is recorded. A company can enquire to a previous company if the horse has transferred if there were any exclusions.
 
Elbie said:
At the end of the day, companies shouldn't have to. You enter a contract with the company stating you have declared all knowledge of the horse to the best of your ability. Passport numbers are just recorded but I don't think they specifically do anything with that information. They would not (and as far as I'm aware there is not) a database where vet history is recorded. A company can enquire to a previous company if the horse has transferred if there were any exclusions.
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I would have thought that it would be in the interests of insurance companies to share such information. It would not take much to set up a database that could be accessed by all insurance companies that looks up by passport number if a horse had any past exclusions. It just seems a common sense thing to do if you run an insurance company. When I worked in retail we used to get together with other retail leaders of other major companies to share information for all of our benefit.
 
A question I would like to ask is what happens when a vet gives a misdiagnosis? That's happened to me twice. For years I had the vet out to horse for a bad eye, and each time conjunctivitis was diagnosed. I informed my insurance but didn't claim as charge was less than my excess. Then he was finally diagnosed with Uvetis, same symptoms insurance wouldn't pay out. Although his eye wasn't excluded, and I thought conjunctivitis & Uvetis were two complete different conditions. Then my horse was shifting weight on his hind legs and couldn't walk, vet came out looked at him in his stable as his heart rate was high diagnosed colic, did all the flushing put rectal exam couldn't understand why he had colic as everything else was normal. Off he went. I wasn't happy as horse was eating normal but in pain in his hinds. So got another vet out he'd got lamintis. So off I toddle to complain, to which I'm told colic can bring on laminitis. I know how a horse with colic acts, he didn't have colic. But it was put on my records therefore excluded.
 
Wagtail said:
Nowadays most insurance policies require you to provide the passport number and more and more companies are sharing information. I would have thought that there would be a central database with horses exclusions listed by passport number. If there isn't then it would be something that most competent insurance bosses would no doubt be developing. I know I would if I was in the industry. So that begs the question, 'do they do a search on the passport number before insuring your horse?' or 'Do they do a search if you ever make a claim and then say that they will not pay out as the horse had some undisclosed (albeit unknown) exclusions?'

Interesting question.
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No, insurance companies do not share this sort of information and there is no database to access medical records/claims histories for horses. Well, there certainly wasn't when I was underwriting horse insurance and i only left just over a year ago! I actually think insurance companies should do something like this as i also think it could maybe help find stolen horses (ie ones that have gone on loan etc - I managed to 'find' one as the person who stole it insured it under it's proper name and I'd seen on here a horse in the stolen section with the same name). There are also a fair amount of dodgy and fraudulent claims that go on within horse insurance and sadly is one reason your premiums go up!

As for the person who has 3 vets who treat their horse - if you do not disclose illnesses/injuries to your insurer then they could just void your policy if they find out - and they do quite often find out as this 'having 2 or more vets' is NOT a new thing. We have caught out various people previously who used one vet for vaccinations then another for emergency treatment etc. They would only ever provide histories from the one who did the annual vaccs. You do develop a knack for spotting the dodgy claims though!
 
We have an exclusion on one of ours for cushings - even though two sets of blood tests came back negative! :eek:

The insurance companies have to protect themselves against unscrupulous claimants, but they sometimes go just too far and punish the honest ones too. But it has to be said that the ones who play the system cost the rest of us by increasing policy costs. Vets need the insurance companies - so they won't take your side in a dispute.

Golden goose dead now - I have paid the equivalent of £1600 a year for the last 10 years - I have been a fool. We have had 2 claims, and with the excess removed the claim came to £200. Who won there then?

Now I have basic death cover, 3rd party and rider, and no vet cover - costing £300 for all of them. I have a separate account and the difference goes in here. If I had done this 10 years ago I would have had probably 12-13K in the bank.

Advantage is that I get to make the decisions, and if we don't have an accident or serious illness then the cash is mine to keep.

Sorry - comprehensive insurance is a mugs game now.

Of course, I am also of the opinion that the very major veterinary interventions are just unfair on the horse, much as I love my boys to bits, I would not put them through it.
 
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