Question about riders jumping without hats "on the continent"

GSLS

GSLS

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Someone I know has recently gone to ride abroad, a country like Belgium/Holland etc (not sure)

I have noticed from photos that people over there do not tend to wear hats (it appears) I have also seen this on for sale videos or generally jumping videos "at home" /not at shows that have been filmed elsewhere in Europe (usually, not always) such as on youtube etc...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIcPTACC1O0 example

I am generally interested as to why this goes on. It's up to someone whether they choose to get on a horse without any safety equipment, some times it can be justified, other times it cannot.

I asked this person and they more or less said "no one does over here really". Why????

I then asked if they were worried about head injuries as I've seen many an article about people falling and dying from head injuries despite wearing a hat... They weren't worried :/


Why does this seem to be one of the "formalities" when jumping horses in European countries (haven't seen much of other countries)...??? I'm generally curious...


Is it laziness, arrogance, carelessness??? Fashion???? Trusting the horses so much??? - (a lot of these are youngsters? :S) I really do not know, perhaps someone who has jumped out there could clarify things for me, or maybe I just have just seen an extremely limited amount of people doing this??


No offence or criticism intended on this post, just generally curious :)

Regards

Emily x x
 
I think a lot of other countries aren't as obsessed with health and safety as we are here....or so worried about the what if's ......
 
I don't wear a hat - suppose I'll have to now that competing in FEI young horse classes mandates wearing one.

Haven't ridden with one since I was 12. Don't even own one. Never felt I needed it.

I think its a personal choice, and a matter of culture. Honestly, I've been riding and competing stallions since I was 14 and fell down once since - and I hurt my hip, not my head. Nobody wears helmets here in Portugal and no one dies because of it... Actually the only serious accident I witnessed lately was a friend who fell during a jumping competition, and she only got hurt because of the helmet (the front part hit the obstacle and her neck bent backwards, if that makes any sense).

I think this is all a matter of marketing.
 
My brother posted a photo this week of my nephew sitting on one of their 16hh horses bareback and hatless (horse in halter and lead rope). They are in Canada.
Apparently I was over reacting to the lack of hat on my 4yo nephew.

I'm still raging.
 
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It's a culture thing. Fifty years ago, we hardly wore hats in this country.

There are some countries where people are much more or less healthy / safety-conscious than us for cultural reasons - diet, smoking habits, exercise culture - so it's just about the cultural view of the risk involved.

Body protectors or air jackets still aren't standard wear in this country, because culturally we haven't accepted them yet in the same way we've accepted hats. That will also change over time.

I disagree that "no one ever died of not wearing a hat", because that's patently untrue - lots of people sadly do. But it's all about acceptable levels of risk - we've decided in Britain that the risk is too high, but it's not an absolute - you won't always die or even be injured if you aren't wearing a hat - which is why there isn't an international consensus.
 
I wonder if it is that they are less sentimental about horses over there so any tricky horses end up as burgers and maybe less amateurs being overhorsed or on youngsters?

I also think there are less amateurs out there competiting as they don't have the "local shows" and RC circuits like we do here. Maybe on the continent beginners spend more time on the lunge developing their seat, whereas here people start riding independently at an earlier stage.

I doubt they wear hi viz either when out hacking and don't use body protectors either.

We are probably a bit more advanced in health and safety and have a higher number of leisure riders too.
 
Theocat said:
It's a culture thing. Fifty years ago, we hardly wore hats in this country.

There are some countries where people are much more or less healthy / safety-conscious than us for cultural reasons - diet, smoking habits, exercise culture - so it's just about the cultural view of the risk involved.

Body protectors or air jackets still aren't standard wear in this country, because culturally we haven't accepted them yet in the same way we've accepted hats. That will also change over time.

I disagree that "no one ever died of not wearing a hat", because that's patently untrue - lots of people sadly do. But it's all about acceptable levels of risk - we've decided in Britain that the risk is too high, but it's not an absolute - you won't always die or even be injured if you aren't wearing a hat - which is why there isn't an international consensus.
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Agree never wore a hat years ago. I am glad I do now due to accidents(i know my sis hat split in two and was informed dead without)! Hat saved. Mind you someone tooted me on my cycle to point out I had no hat on and I nearly fell off!! Old habits. But too little too late if you dont wear it. Same as car seat belts.
 
I live in Argentina and no one wears hats for training here either. Not even people I know who have had to be hospitalised with severe concussion or have been knocked unconscious. Someone I know WOULD have had a serious head injury had he not been wearing a hat because he was warming up for a show; he came off and his head bounced off a fence post. No one has ever been able to explain why they don't wear one. I expect they just don't think it's cool.

PS. I know of someone who died even though she WAS wearing a hat. She didn't even make it to hospital.
 
SO1 said:
I wonder if it is that they are less sentimental about horses over there so any tricky horses end up as burgers and maybe less amateurs being overhorsed or on youngsters?

I also think there are less amateurs out there competiting as they don't have the "local shows" and RC circuits like we do here. Maybe on the continent beginners spend more time on the lunge developing their seat, whereas here people start riding independently at an earlier stage.

I doubt they wear hi viz either when out hacking and don't use body protectors either.

We are probably a bit more advanced in health and safety and have a higher number of leisure riders too.
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^ This 100%

Having lived in France (here at the min) and spent lots of time there, the somewhat gung-ho/assertive attitude towards horses at most riding establishments/shows I've been to seems to imply that the hose gets on with it, rider is brusque and not as sentimental as I've seen some riders (and me) in England be. I know this is a huge generalisation, but from the most part, from my experiences working with horses in France and going riding/to shows in France, it does seem a lot more competitive and less leisure-centred as in the UK.

In France this might be down to their 'Galops' levels system. Would be good to maybe introduce a similar system in France with Galop 3+/5+ horses for sale, for example. The more I think about it though, the more I think you just can't put a number or level on these things. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses.

But anyway, back to the original point. I'm going to put myself out there and say that lots of the time I think owners of French establishments/stallions/flashy showjumpers do it to show off, or because ("their head gets sweaty in the warmer climate"). It annoys me to no end, because one day someone will get hurt (and probably already has been) :(

Interesting point about the leisure riders, though. I'm in rural Southern France and have been looking for a horse share for the past 6 months to no avail....little/no/invisible leisure riders out here! All seems to be showjumping yards!
 
Theocat said:
I disagree that "no one ever died of not wearing a hat", because that's patently untrue - lots of people sadly do. But it's all about acceptable levels of risk - we've decided in Britain that the risk is too high, but it's not an absolute - you won't always die or even be injured if you aren't wearing a hat - which is why there isn't an international consensus.
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Because I'm feeling pedantic, strictly speaking, they died from falling off a horse. Not wearing a hat (in all likelihood) exacerbated their injuries, which may (or may not) have prevented their death. As you say, it's about acceptable levels of risk - in the UK it's pretty widely accepted that not wearing a hat is an unacceptable risk.
 
SO1 said:
I wonder if it is that they are less sentimental about horses over there so any tricky horses end up as burgers and maybe less amateurs being overhorsed or on youngsters?

I also think there are less amateurs out there competiting as they don't have the "local shows" and RC circuits like we do here. Maybe on the continent beginners spend more time on the lunge developing their seat, whereas here people start riding independently at an earlier stage.

I doubt they wear hi viz either when out hacking and don't use body protectors either.

We are probably a bit more advanced in health and safety and have a higher number of leisure riders too.
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Not the issue here, for sure. We don't even geld stallions unless they are truly fire breathing beasts, which is maybe one in fifty.

I guess in Portugal people tend to not wear helmets because we grow up riding Lusitanos, who are simply awesome horses for confidence and to build a seat. Once you move up to warmbloods, you have plenty of tools you wouldn't otherwise have.
 
It's a progressive, gradual change in the way people think. When I first owned a horse in the 70s, no-one ever wore a hat,except at shows - and then they were rubbish ones. Slowly, it became accepted that the potential for a head injury could be prevented by wearing head gear, so we all came around to the idea.
Seat belts in cars were never worn either. Except that took a change in the law to convince everybody it was a good idea - apart from my ex, who is Greek and still refuses to wear one, despite being fined a few times. They have the maddest, fatalistic attitude to life (and death). Perhaps that is the way are Europe-wide, then.
 
I have ridden in a few other countries and hats were often around in a cupboard somewhere and no one would really make fun of you but were optional. When I was in Italy I wore a hat because I was riding a silly horse, but I might not have on a more sensible one, I was young... God it really was hot I had heat stroke a lot. I do always wear a hat here.

I think it might be partially because everywhere we ride here tends to involve tarmac or concrete which may be less so in other countries, however last bad fall was on grass in summer so dry as concrete, I fell onto my elbow and forehead, elbow smashed, forehead only bruised from inside of hat, glad I was wearing hat! It was the first time I have ever fallen on my head too. I don't think its actually that common for your head to be involved in a fall, although probably more common in jumping... To be honest I fall off more than most these days, I need all the help I can get!
 
To be more factual, it isn't just in Europe where a great many riders don't wear hats, it's the rest of the world excluding the UK. I've lived and travelled to many other countries and I've never seen the level of harping on about wearing hats like I've seen from people in the UK. It's cultural I'd say. As has been commented, most riders in Britain 30 or 40 years ago rarely wore hats. Heck when I was growing up there I had a lovely Harry Hall velvet hat (with the flexible peak lol) which I kept safely packed away and it only came out for shows.

Hats do seem to be becoming more usual in my country nowadays though. I see more people wearing them but it's still very much a 'you're an adult, you can choose whether you want to wear one or not' country. No-one frowns if you don't wear one, no-one comments if you do.
 
I used to work and compete with horses in Italy many moons ago. I always wore a hat, but heck did it get hot mid-summer.. I also think they were much more into look over there, and whether they looked pretty with their hair flowing on their horse.. The yard was partly a riding school, and we made them wear hats, and they were really annoyed to ruin their hair!
 
There is a picture of a top cob producer on facebook without a hat. She got a good few comments about that. It's doesn't matter if your a novice or pro rider heads still crack open. My old RI was a stunt rider and was riding her own horse when it threw her into the air. She ended up head first into a fence but she had her hat on which saved her life.
 
Has nothing to do with tricky horses or otherwise. I have a friend with TBI for life because a horse she was riding at the walk stumbled and fell. Her head hit a rock. She will never be the same.

I don't care who wears one or not. I always wear one. I don't wear my helmet for me, I wear it for those who love me.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Has nothing to do with tricky horses or otherwise. I have a friend with TBI for life because a horse she was riding at the walk stumbled and fell. Her head hit a rock. She will never be the same.

I don't care who wears one or not. I always wear one. I don't wear my helmet for me, I wear it for those who love me.

Terri
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:) yes freak accidents can happen on the most sane and sensible horses just hacking or whatever so imagine what can happen when you're "popping" 1m50 on a youngster, it seems risky. But then again, each to their own...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...17-died-jumping-accident-joining-cortege.html


"Ella Pallister, 17, sustained severe head injuries when her horse refused to jump in the warm-up area of the event, which took place in late January.
She plunged from the saddle and is believed to have been kicked in the head as she lay on the floor. Ella was airlifted to Southampton General Hospital but her injuries were so severe she died three days later."


And it was BSJA so she was wearing a hat up to the current safety standards as well


:( x x x x
 
Hat wearing was originally introduced in the US, made its way to the UK as a practice and is now slowly spreading to Europe - this is very easy to confirm by looking up statistics of head injuries amongst riders (and the huge drop in numbers since the introduction of hard hats in the US/UK).

It takes some cultures longer to adopt safety standards, e.g. here in France a huge number of people smoke (a lot of them young), there is loads of drink driving with no social repercussions and you frequently see young children (and dogs) unrestrained in cars.

PiebaldRosie: I have had a different experience in the south of France - loads of leisure riders, very few competitions in comparison to the UK, although mainly competition horses are kept at yards, leisure horses are kept at home which may explain why you are not finding a share? The Galops, in my view, are not worth the paper they are written on. They have a huge emphasis on theory (and often not very horsey related theory) and very little practice, e.g. by Galop 7 riders are at about novice level dressage which is not very impressive considering they have gone through seven exams!
 
Everything seems to be health and safety obsessed now. I wore a hat as a child, but it was made of cork and offered no protection (this was in the 1960's). Then when I worked with horses, some yards insisted on a hat,(e.g. racing yards, where it was compulsory) others were not bothered. Mostly I never wore a hat. However, I did end up with concussion once, falling off hatless, but I have also suffered the same falling with a hat on.
It is a good idea to wear a hat, especially for the young and novices, but if you are an experienced adult rider, I think whether or not you wear one should be up to you, but of course you would be pilloried by the nanny state brigade for not doing so.
I think in all areas of life the entire country has been brainwashed by 'health and safety', so much so, that 'risk' has become a dirty word. Are we raising a generation of total wusses, that, never having taken ANY risk, find it impossible to make judgements on what is safe and what is not? (I am speaking generally here, not just on riding.)
(Incidentally I wear a hat for riding now, but that is because I am a bit old, creaky and stiff and don't have the reactions I used to have!)
 
You really need to focus on a multitude of things to stay safe. Hats and body protectors can help if you do come off. How safe is the horse is probably the biggest question, followed by the skill level of the rider. Hats and body protectors minimise the damage, they don't prevent it happening.
 
When I had my guys in France I never wore a hat even when jumping the big lad, in summer is was just too hot and in winter I had a thick wooly hat on or I think my ears would drop off. The hacking was all off road but I did wear about of hi viz as the hunt out there where not the brightest bunch, none of my trainers grooms wore hats, even when backing ( even I think that's mad) . I know it only takes one fall but you can say that about riding in your body protector, I think a spine is as important as your head. It's personal preference and when riding other peoples horses over here (uk) I will put a hat on as on most yards it a rule
 
I am definately one of the minority at our yard in germany (50 horses) .. the kids have to wear them until they are 16 - generally for lessons hats need to be worn, but outside of lessons hardly anyone wears them ... the excuse is always that it is not comfortable, or messes the hair up - to start with I got some funny comments, but have quite a few good one liners to throw back at funny comments, so that has stopped.
It is defiantely a culture thing ... the more adults ride with no hats, the more the kids when they get over 16 think they will look silly if they wear one - there is much much less riding out here, everyone tends to ride in the school, most don't jump, definately do not go XC, so much more dressage orientated... they don't see the accidents, so don't think they need to wear one.
I am sitting at home with a fractured arm having had a difference of opinion with my youngster about the direction of travel while bucking .. have showed a few people the x rays and just dropped the comment .. good job it was not my head .. or?? People look a bit embarrassed, but still carry on without
At the end of the day everyone has to make their own mind up - it is 20 years since I landed on my head, but I know that the one day I ride without a hat, will be the day I do again.
what i find very funny are the adults on the yard who have kids who ride .. the kids need to have hats and body protecters for everything .. but then they ride with nothing , they are adamant that the child is not allowed to go near the pony without the full kit , but when I ask them who will look after the child when they are in hospital with a fractured skull, they have no answer :-)
 
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