Question about riders jumping without hats "on the continent"

WelshD said:
As far as I know skulls cave in remarkably easily regardless of what country you are in
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I feel it is a personal calculated risk and for me, the risk is too great so I always wear one.
However, while it is logical to assume more fatal and life altering head injury's happen in places that don't wear hats is that the reality?

It would be very interesting reading to see some stats on the issue.
 
The first time I showed up to ride in Spain, the YO wet himself laughing at me and my hat :( :(

One of my students kept her horse there and I was chatting to her about it and she told me that up to about 11 all the children wore hats and then they just stopped unless they were competing.

She mainly focussed on dressage as she'd fallen off jumping 1m and had broken her collarbone and lost her nerve a little. I asked her why this hadn't made her want to wear her hat more and she just shrugged and said "life is dangerous"

I think in the end everyone just settled on me being "the eccentric Englishwoman"
 
Karran said:
I think in the end everyone just settled on me being "the eccentric Englishwoman"
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thats defiantely whats happened to me :-) .. combined with my 'I would actually like my horse to go in the field every day .. even if it is a bit cold or looks like it might rain'.. or .. 'I would like my horse to have hay a bit later than 3pm in the afternoon as 13 hours with no hay is not good for them' ..... or 'yes, I am hacking out, yes, I know it is drizzling, no he won't get a cold'
 
How silly, I find it quite childish that anyone would mock someone for wearing a hat, just as I don't care if someone wants to wear a body protector every time they are on or even near a horse. Their choice, their body that's being protected! Glad most of us seem to have the confidence to say 'nope, still wearing it'. I'd be sad if anyone who is not a child caved into such peer pressure!
 
GermanyJo said:
thats defiantely whats happened to me :-) .. combined with my 'I would actually like my horse to go in the field every day .. even if it is a bit cold or looks like it might rain'.. or .. 'I would like my horse to have hay a bit later than 3pm in the afternoon as 13 hours with no hay is not good for them' ..... or 'yes, I am hacking out, yes, I know it is drizzling, no he won't get a cold'
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TBF on the YO, although I didn't quite agree with some of his methods (ex bullfighter and trained horses to go in the bullring). He did ensure his horses got turned out daily. Admittedly in Spain there wasn't much grass so it was in the school or on a mud patch but they got to go and play out regularly although perhaps not as much as we'd like over here.
 
I personally would feel much more comfortable walking around the streets of Reading Town Centre naked than I do not wearing a hat on a horse.

And I despise seeing people not wearing hats.
 
I have ridden since the 60's and have always worn a hat even though the early ones were pretty much cardboard & cork.
Having had a rotational fall Xcountry schooling when I was eighteen I would not be here if I hadn't been helmeted. As it was I had severe concussion.

I wear a hat even when on the ground around youngsters since seeing someone knocked out by a horse flinging it's head.

Modern hats are not uncomfortable or sweaty. I wonder if the people who say they are try on for fashion & not fit? A poorly fitted hat is uncomfortable but I can forget I'm wearing mine.
 
I tend to think people should wear hats. I don't despise people for not doing, but, I do think that lots of folk ask to get hurt by not training their horses properly yet thinking a hat is the asnwer.
 
undertheweather said:
I personally would feel much more comfortable walking around the streets of Reading Town Centre naked than I do not wearing a hat on a horse.

And I despise seeing people not wearing hats.
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I think there are far worse things people do with horses that are more deserving of your dislike.

What has it got to do with anyone else if a person rides without a hat?
 
Aarrghimpossiblepony said:
I think there are far worse things people do with horses that are more deserving of your dislike.

What has it got to do with anyone else if a person rides without a hat?
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I wonder if this sums it up ? In the UK all adults pay towards health care, medical costs and onging support for someone who needs attention however caused. In many countries the person involved, or their families, picks up the bill.

What does it have to do with anyone else? - I feel my contributions are squandered if put towards treatments that are the result of someone else's foolhardyness.
 
s4sugar said:
I wonder if this sums it up ? In the UK all adults pay towards health care, medical costs and onging support for someone who needs attention however caused. In many countries the person involved, or their families, picks up the bill.

What does it have to do with anyone else? - I feel my contributions are squandered if put towards treatments that are the result of someone else's foolhardyness.
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You have a point, but where does it stop. Drinking, smoking, motorcyle riding, eating MacDonalds, sky diving, living under a flight path or pylon.
 
One of the places where I worked abroad one of the the very old school coaches was of the opinion that wearing a helmet made riding more dangerous because if you were to fall the extra weight of the hat would cause you to land on your head !!! :eek: he was well known for being a bit wild with his theories though and we would just smile and nod :rolleyes:
 
I hate seeing people riding without hats . I had a friend who's crash helmet came off on the road when they skided. She had brain damage and had to use one of those typy talky things for life she was aged 23.

Example :

You ride without a hat 100's times nothing happens
Then one time you come off crack your head on the floor - result brain damaged or dead.

No different than driving without a seatbelt - loads do it journey completed without injury
till than one awful day when you lose your life in a crash as you end up through windscreen or impaled on steering wheel

I ask Is it worth the risk???? life is short enough without putting your self at risk for the sake of not wearing a hat.



Guy next door never wears hat he hacks out with fag in one hand and the reins and mobile in the other no hi viz.


I just think "what a prat" or what an (__!__) hole


.
 
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For me its all about minimising risk...yes, I could get a horrific head injury with my hat on, but I am less likely to, so I wear it! If anything happened to me I would want my family to know I did all I could to reduce the risk whilst doing what I love.

I know one or two people who don't wear them and I always think they look so vulnerable. I guess that's cos over here we are so used to them.
 
you think of what a egg does when his the tarmac
your scull is a hollow shell with soft matter this hitting the road ant 20 mills an our eeeeekk doesn't bear thinking about
 
s4sugar said:
I wonder if this sums it up ? In the UK all adults pay towards health care, medical costs and onging support for someone who needs attention however caused. In many countries the person involved, or their families, picks up the bill.

What does it have to do with anyone else? - I feel my contributions are squandered if put towards treatments that are the result of someone else's foolhardyness.
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Better not tell you I smoke as well, you will have an apoplexy.:D

If the NHS was run on the lines of "does this person deserve to be treated because they were foolhardy" you could probably rule out anybody going within ten foot of a horse by choice as being "deserving".

And where does it stop?
The vast majority don't do what the rest of the vast majority does at any one time.
I could easily find you people who would want any injury caused by riding/handling horses (hat or no hat) barred from using the NHS.
And those who would bar people who go skiing, driving, climbing, hiking ect. ect., those who are obese, those who drink, the list is endless.

The answer is to mind your own business IMO. None of us are perfect, everyone will have something they do that will be judged by somebody else as being foolhardy so not deserving of treatment.
 
Booboos said:
Hat wearing was originally introduced in the US, made its way to the UK as a practice and is now slowly spreading to Europe - this is very easy to confirm by looking up statistics of head injuries amongst riders (and the huge drop in numbers since the introduction of hard hats in the US/UK).

It takes some cultures longer to adopt safety standards, e.g. here in France a huge number of people smoke (a lot of them young), there is loads of drink driving with no social repercussions and you frequently see young children (and dogs) unrestrained in cars.

PiebaldRosie: I have had a different experience in the south of France - loads of leisure riders, very few competitions in comparison to the UK, although mainly competition horses are kept at yards, leisure horses are kept at home which may explain why you are not finding a share? The Galops, in my view, are not worth the paper they are written on. They have a huge emphasis on theory (and often not very horsey related theory) and very little practice, e.g. by Galop 7 riders are at about novice level dressage which is not very impressive considering they have gone through seven exams!
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How interesting your experience has been so different! How have you found the hat-wearing culture in your area of S. France? I'm in the southern central-ish bit, and seems to be all showjumpers round here (mostly hatless). That might explain my problems finding a share, yes, even though I've put adverts in tack shops and check them regularly! I just got the impression French people didn't do horse-share type things but I might just be an isolated case!

About the Galops: having flicked through a book or two on them in Decathlon, definitely agree about the theory! I did have a suspicion that the riding level by G7 didn't match up to the theory! Got the impression it's more jumping-based than correct way of going in dressage? Everyone here seems so hung up on Galops as well- their jaw drops to the ground when I say I haven't got any, then hastily explain past experiences etc and it's slightly redeemed! Oh, France... :p
 
It doesn't matter how experienced a rider or how well trained a horse is, accidents happen, horses trip etc, a hat could save your life, why wouldn't you wear one....
 
In some counties like Germany you cannot compete unless you have passed the appropriate level test so as they have less accidents they have less of a problem. So the case of people who buy a Grade A showjumping and go to shows when they are not skilled enough to ride at that level is why we are obsessed with safety not with skilled riding
 
I think it's a cultural thing. It's been going on for years riding without hats & there seems to have been no concerted effort to bring about change.

When I was young we never wore helmets when riding motorcycles, it was only when the law changed making it compulsory that everyone started wearing them. Similarly seat belt law was introduced so it was mandatory but it took plenty of campaigning to bring it about.

Someone mentioned the 'Health & Safety' lobby in this country is very active & their opposite numbers do not really exist in many other countries so the pressure to bring about change does not really happen.
 
I live in the UK and whilst I do wear a hat when riding other horses I don't when i'm riding my own. We mostly hack and I enjoy the sensation of hearing and seeing every thing around us unobstructed. It is a case of acceptable risk. I've trained my horse well, she's bomb proof, knows to stand quietly at every road junction without being told. If some thing scares her she's been trained to stand and look at it, then either walk past or look round at me to ask for help. Then I'll get of walk past the scary bit and get back on. The other week a fire engine went past us on a corner fully lite up. It saw us because I do wear hi viz and also two red bike lights on the back of the saddle. She didn't even flinch. So many people hope their hats will save them from injury instead of putting in the time consuming job of training the horse in the first place. In my opinion thats much more of a problem.
As for the what ifs, u could be hit by a bus whilst walking down the road. If u worried about all the what ifs, you'd never leave the house and that s no way to live.
 
s4sugar said:
I wonder if this sums it up ? In the UK all adults pay towards health care, medical costs and onging support for someone who needs attention however caused. In many countries the person involved, or their families, picks up the bill.

What does it have to do with anyone else? - I feel my contributions are squandered if put towards treatments that are the result of someone else's foolhardyness.
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Just read the thread about JT McNamara and the serious neck injury that he has sustained. I can't help thinking that being a jockey is at the top end of foolhardyness, judging by the number of injuries that are sustained and the number of horses this 'sport' kills. Perhaps there is an argument that injuries caused in these sort of circumstances should have all the treatments and other costs paid for by those who are injured. Or, would the cost of insurances and such like kill the sport. Obviously, jockeys wear all the safety equipment, but all it does is make the injury less severe, like with any other fall.
My view is that treatment should be free for everyone even if they have been foolhardy.
 
caras mum said:
I live in the UK and whilst I do wear a hat when riding other horses I don't when i'm riding my own. We mostly hack and I enjoy the sensation of hearing and seeing every thing around us unobstructed. It is a case of acceptable risk. I've trained my horse well, she's bomb proof, knows to stand quietly at every road junction without being told. If some thing scares her she's been trained to stand and look at it, then either walk past or look round at me to ask for help. Then I'll get of walk past the scary bit and get back on. The other week a fire engine went past us on a corner fully lite up. It saw us because I do wear hi viz and also two red bike lights on the back of the saddle. She didn't even flinch. So many people hope their hats will save them from injury instead of putting in the time consuming job of training the horse in the first place. In my opinion thats much more of a problem.
As for the what ifs, u could be hit by a bus whilst walking down the road. If u worried about all the what ifs, you'd never leave the house and that s no way to live.
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This, and if you want to wear a hat, wear one.
 
I grew up riding "English" (rather, "German") in Canada, and we took it as a given that you wear a hat when you get on a horse. I still do (although have had a few occasions when I've started to head off without one by accident!). If I didn't wear a hat to ride my pony, I probably wouldn't be here. I've landed on my head about 4 times since getting him.

However, I can see that it's a question of risk assessment, and that in the end, people make their own decisions. While a freak accident can happen at any time, I can understand how if you do almost all your riding in a school, mostly doing flatwork, you might assess the risk as too low to worry about. Not a decision I would take, but I can see how it happens.

Others might say my decision to sit on my pony and hare along dodgy tracks is too high-risk.
 
PiebaldRosie said:
How interesting your experience has been so different! How have you found the hat-wearing culture in your area of S. France? I'm in the southern central-ish bit, and seems to be all showjumpers round here (mostly hatless). That might explain my problems finding a share, yes, even though I've put adverts in tack shops and check them regularly! I just got the impression French people didn't do horse-share type things but I might just be an isolated case!

About the Galops: having flicked through a book or two on them in Decathlon, definitely agree about the theory! I did have a suspicion that the riding level by G7 didn't match up to the theory! Got the impression it's more jumping-based than correct way of going in dressage? Everyone here seems so hung up on Galops as well- their jaw drops to the ground when I say I haven't got any, then hastily explain past experiences etc and it's slightly redeemed! Oh, France... :p
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I'm between Toulouse and Carcassonne. North of Toulouse is a very SJ area, but south west is more eventer country (very close to Pau so that might explain things!). Sadly no one is interested in dressage!

If I was to guess I would say that finding a share in France is like many other things in France, i.e. a matter of who you know and who can introduce you to others. Unlike the UK I suspect an advert may not work (although have you tried chevalannonce.com ?) and you may need to make some personal contacts.

I've interviewed two potential grooms, one with G4 the other G5 and neither could ride my hack cob much less the competition horses! The G4 didn't get out of trot and my heart was in my mouth the whole time she went round the school, the G5 had never lunged and kept leaving the field gate wide open when she went to collect the horses! Loads of people also seem to use draw reins with doubles and a de gauge on top for good messure!
 
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Where does it all end? If you're at home and want to go helmet less than work away. Nobody will stop you. But at someone else's place and or a show warmup, too bad if you're annoyed. Respect the fact those are the rules elsewhere.

Why not watch some videos of Courtney King Dye after her TBI. She rode dressage and was just in warmup on a dressage horse, a youngster. Horse stumbled and she's left not the same anymore. A helmet actually would have saved all that.

But hey I also believe people have the right to choose for themselves. Just because I'm pro doesn't mean I'm right. But sometimes we have to do things we wouldn't like away from our homes. That's just life so best to get on with it. Put it this way, if I wanted, I'm free to do my housework buck naked. I could garden buck naked. But if I needed something from the shop, I need to put clothes on. I may feel totally annoyed with this but in the grand scheme of things I sometimes have to do things I'd rather not.

I grew up riding in the US back in the 70's and it was hot. I was not allowed to ride without a helmet. Got to about 13 and I pretty much figured I knew all there was to know. My sister and I used to get dropped off at the barn early and picked up late afternoon. No worries about health and safety. BO left with her kids for lunch and I had 2 to ride. I was jumping a pony without a helmet and he slipped and the first thing that hit the ground was my head. For 5 mins I was blind. Couldn't get my mother or BO on phone. When I finally did, my mother picked me up but by then I had my vision but a massive headache. Since I was not confused and nobody was health and safety concerned, I did not go to the hospital and it was one of those things that happens with horses.

I did not die obviously but from that day forward, this head has never been without a helmet! And I also use it for loading horses and for tacking up new recruits, ie breakers. That day left an impression.

Terri
 
I presume you wore a hat whilst you were training your horse to be safe?

I think in part it is about culture and education too maybe we are better educated about the risks of riding horses without hats, the level of protection of hats has risen over the years as well from the basic ones with elastic chin strap to the majority of people investing in higher level jockey skull caps. (Though don't think many of replace our hats as often as we should do, I had the same hat for over 5 years despite having quite a few falls in it and only just replaced it with a gatehouse HSI as was bringing my pony back into work after a prolonged period of box rest). I fell off him twice in the school during the first month and it was not because he was not well trained it turned out he had a problem with a muscle near his stifle that was causing him pain in canter resulting in uncharecteristic bouts of bucking, he got this treated and once he was better he returned to normal behaviour.

Obviously it is people's choice in the same way it is to drink drive, smoke or take drugs which all are high risk activities. Horse riding itself is probably more dangerous than many other sports so maybe many confident riders are naturally risk takers. I presume those who ride without hats are confident of their own ability.

I am always surprised more people don't wear cycle helmets at least when cycling on the road I have seen some quite aggressive cycling in cities that looks very risky.

I have also seen in europe people on motorbikes and mopeds without helmets on, some people are even on mopeds carrying a helmet but not wearing it. If people are riding mopeds and motorbikes without helmets I can see why they might not think about using hat on horses.


caras mum said:
I live in the UK and whilst I do wear a hat when riding other horses I don't when i'm riding my own. We mostly hack and I enjoy the sensation of hearing and seeing every thing around us unobstructed. It is a case of acceptable risk. I've trained my horse well, she's bomb proof, knows to stand quietly at every road junction without being told. If some thing scares her she's been trained to stand and look at it, then either walk past or look round at me to ask for help. Then I'll get of walk past the scary bit and get back on. The other week a fire engine went past us on a corner fully lite up. It saw us because I do wear hi viz and also two red bike lights on the back of the saddle. She didn't even flinch. So many people hope their hats will save them from injury instead of putting in the time consuming job of training the horse in the first place. In my opinion thats much more of a problem.
As for the what ifs, u could be hit by a bus whilst walking down the road. If u worried about all the what ifs, you'd never leave the house and that s no way to live.
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To me it isn't so much the chance of falling off and landing on your head - that's generally pretty low. It's the fact that if you do land on your head there's a good chance of being seriously injured.
 
Booboos said:
I'm between Toulouse and Carcassonne. North of Toulouse is a very SJ area, but south west is more eventer country (very close to Pau so that might explain things!). Sadly no one is interested in dressage!

If I was to guess I would say that finding a share in France is like many other things in France, i.e. a matter of who you know and who can introduce you to others. Unlike the UK I suspect an advert may not work (although have you tried chevalannonce.com ?) and you may need to make some personal contacts.

I've interviewed two potential grooms, one with G4 the other G5 and neither could ride my hack cob much less the competition horses! The G4 didn't get out of trot and my heart was in my mouth the whole time she went round the school, the G5 had never lunged and kept leaving the field gate wide open when she went to collect the horses! Loads of people also seem to use draw reins with doubles and a de gauge on top for good messure!
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Oh wow, not too far from me at all then :D I'm near Nimes. Yep, Pau would definitely explain the eventer side of things. No one around here seems that interested in dressage either!

Yes it would seem so- plus the fact that French people take ages to do things anyway..maybe some people are thinking of replying to my advert but just haven't got around to it yet! :p Thanks for the tip on chevalannonce, too. Sadly I'm only here for another month of my contract (Uni year abroad) but will bear it in mind for the future! I'm trying to find a horsey thing to do in France for the summer for a month at least, so it might work for that.

Interesting about the G4/5 people coming to ride your horses, too! Blimey, French horse people do vary a lot. Like anywhere I suppose! About the gadgets too...they do seem a bit obsessed. More than once I have seen people jumping in de gauges....not nice. And riding ponies who clearly wear side reins on a daily basis, breaks my heart a bit.
 
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