Jessie234
Member
How much do you pay? Do you pay absolutely everything including insurance/vet bills/physio/livery/farrier?
Question for full loaners
- Thread starter Jessie234
- Start date
mossycup
Well-Known Member
Yes. All costs of the horse are yours on full loan. You may find that the owner keeps their own insurance and asks you to pay the premium
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Generally you pay absolutely everything.
Sometimes there might be a circumstance where the owner will cover specific costs, eg I’ve got a bit of a croc out on full loan and I pay his ongoing medication
Sometimes there might be a circumstance where the owner will cover specific costs, eg I’ve got a bit of a croc out on full loan and I pay his ongoing medication
Batgirl
Well-Known Member
Generally full loan = all expenses though I've had insurance covered and on going medical bills covered before.
teddypops
Well-Known Member
Yes, all expenses. However when I had one of my ponies out on loan short term, I continued with his insurance.
AmyMay
Situation normal
I’ve had one full loan. I paid for everything except the insurance, which the owner paid.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
When I used to full loan, I paid everything except the insurance. I paid the cost of routine vet call outs, on the one occasion a pony needed emergency treatment, I also paid the excess on the insurance.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
A loan agreement is essential to protect both sides.
As an owner, I was thrown off the yard when I dared to show surprise that I was expected to pay a chiro vet bill.
As an owner, I was thrown off the yard when I dared to show surprise that I was expected to pay a chiro vet bill.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
yes, full loan is like having your own horse but not having the initial outlay, also depending on your contract you can give the horse back so less responsibility than owning..
tankgirl1
Well-Known Member
We paid everything. The owner kept the insurance in their name and we paid the cost of the premium to her. When he needed vet treatment we paid the excess
Surbie
Well-Known Member
Yep, I pay for everything, insurance included.
Bernster
Well-Known Member
Yes in my case. All costs. Def get an agreement drawn up as it helps to be clear who’s responsible Etc. Bhs template is good.
Bonnie Allie
Well-Known Member
Slightly different case when we loaned our precious pony out - we said we would cover any vet fee above $1000 (550GBP).
As she was a pony, she was for the under 10’s which meant she would be going to a family with young children that might be one income, still have a fairly high mortgage and we didn’t want them skimping on her care if she needed medical attention.
We also had a super strong contract that stipulated they had to inform us every time the pony was ill, vet was called and we had to approve any treatments. We also stipulated which vets could be used. I wasn’t interested in them using the latest voodoo fluffy in treatment, it had to be someone qualified, accredited and referenceable.
We also stipulated no bullshit supplements. we funded the qualified equine nutritionalist and the pony remained on the approved diet only.
As she was a pony, she was for the under 10’s which meant she would be going to a family with young children that might be one income, still have a fairly high mortgage and we didn’t want them skimping on her care if she needed medical attention.
We also had a super strong contract that stipulated they had to inform us every time the pony was ill, vet was called and we had to approve any treatments. We also stipulated which vets could be used. I wasn’t interested in them using the latest voodoo fluffy in treatment, it had to be someone qualified, accredited and referenceable.
We also stipulated no bullshit supplements. we funded the qualified equine nutritionalist and the pony remained on the approved diet only.
cindars
Well-Known Member
Pay for everything no different from when I had my own.
Jessie234
Member
Fine with paying everything, problem I’m having is I would give Chiro/physio to my animals and owners did not. Turns out he has a lot of nasty old injuries and needs extra attention and they won’t help pay for it as they don’t think it’s basic care. This is the case with tack that has needed replaced for years but thinks he can go a lot longer without. I’m not in a position to pay all this for a horse that is t mine from old injuries and tack sadly
atropa
Well-Known Member
I have one out on loan and loaner is responsible for all bills excepting those relating to a pre-existing medical condition.
I would not expect to be asked to contribute towards physio/chiro costs that my loaner chose to incur. On the flip side though, my horse went out on loan with correctly fitting, catalogued tack that both loaner and I were happy with, I think its a bit cheeky if they have sent horse to you with ill fitting tack.
Jessie234
Member
I thought the tack was a good fit as claimed he had checked twice a year but when saddle fitter came out she said is been 16 months. Saddle needs a full revamp and I’m fine to pay with fitting but not the revamp.
Chiro has told me the injuries are old, I just want him to be happy and healthy. Some people can’t afford or don’t believe in doing this for their horses, I’m not one of them but I can’t pay to fix loads of old injuries. Poor horse. Also don’t feel comfortable riding a horse that is sore. Difficult one as I love him dearly
Chiro has told me the injuries are old, I just want him to be happy and healthy. Some people can’t afford or don’t believe in doing this for their horses, I’m not one of them but I can’t pay to fix loads of old injuries. Poor horse. Also don’t feel comfortable riding a horse that is sore. Difficult one as I love him dearly
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
If you can’t afford to pay for regular body worker checks yourself, or to repair/replace the saddle, and you think that both are necessary, then end the loan.
Many loaners do upgrade the supplied tack themselves, with the owner’s agreement. If you did so, the new tack remains your property if the loan ends.
Many loaners do upgrade the supplied tack themselves, with the owner’s agreement. If you did so, the new tack remains your property if the loan ends.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
Pretty much this. As an owner I paid for routine vaccinations, the ponies only insured 3rd party, so I set a £500 limit on vets fees due to injury, and it came home, as I wanted to be in control of any treatment. I also paid disposal costs for a pony out on loan, I thought it was bad enough for them that it had died out of the blue.
terrierliz
Well-Known Member
I have one on full loan, also own two, I cover costs of everything barring physio but this was agreed prior to me loaning as he had an ongoing issue - owner pays for physio and I did the leg work to get him sorted, worth it for a lovely pony. He came with a full wardrobe but i didn’t like his saddle so had fitter out and bought a replacement. Owner happy, I’m happy hopefully keep him for life.
SpotsandBays
Well-Known Member
Can’t speak for the chiro and what not, but in regards to the saddle - if allowed, purchase one that fits the horse. It’s yours then, so if the loan ends you can sell it on and it’s not a total loss?
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
the horse i had on full loan came with tack but i provided my own and had iyt fitted to her as i found their saddle uncomfortable so only used it until the saddle fitter could come and alter mine.
SatansLittleHelper
Well-Known Member
I pay everything for mine, including his insurance.
I also got him a different saddle with permission from his owner, but it belongs to me.
Surbie
Well-Known Member
I pay for regular chiro and physio, and have bought a new saddle, bit & bridle for him that fit us both better, with the owner's permission. He also now has a full wardrobe of sweetitch rugs and a few turnouts - I don't begrudge the cost, I'd do the same if I owned him and if he ever goes back to his owner those would go with him.
Polos Mum
Well-Known Member
I pay for everything with my new loan one. He'd never seen the dentist and never had is saddle fitted (just what was available) so he's taken a good MOT and many ££'s to get to a point I'm happy he's comfortable to ride.
the owner wants a very particular person to clip - (I usually do mine) so I've said if she want's that she can pay - which is fine with both of us.
OP - if he's got ongoing long term injury issues to the point they need treating but you can't get agreement on who should pay (no right or wrong - every situation is different) then he should go back to the owner and you should look for something else. You can't keep him intreated and it's largely irrelevant what we think is fair - it's what you and the owner can agree on that matters.
the owner wants a very particular person to clip - (I usually do mine) so I've said if she want's that she can pay - which is fine with both of us.
OP - if he's got ongoing long term injury issues to the point they need treating but you can't get agreement on who should pay (no right or wrong - every situation is different) then he should go back to the owner and you should look for something else. You can't keep him intreated and it's largely irrelevant what we think is fair - it's what you and the owner can agree on that matters.
Widgeon
Well-Known Member
From my reading of your post OP you maybe weren't aware of the extent (and implications) of his old injuries and wonkiness when you took him on. If this had been a horse you'd bought, presumably you would have vetted him and therefore would have known these things - i.e. what you were signing up for. So personally, I think that given that the horse is rather more complicated in terms of maintenance than you originally believed, there'd be no shame in you ending the loan - it doesn't sound like this is a horse you've had for ages, but rather a new loan that has turned out to be not what you thought (correct me if I'm wrong). The owners don't sound particularly brilliant to be honest, but that's not your fault. You can't bankrupt yourself caring for a horse just because his owners don't care enough to give him what he really needs. The whole situation is very sad, but ultimately not your fault. Just my take on it.
honetpot
Well-Known Member
I once had an old brood mare on companion loan, the owners dropped her off and then told me in passing she needed sedating to have her feet trimmed. Money wasn't a factor but it was just really annoying not to have been told before, and arranging the vet every time she needed a trim.
Non disclosure is for me a dealbreaker, how can you trust an owner that does not disclose things that are relevant to maintaining their animals health and wellbeing, and in the case of the brood mare led to injury of anyone who was going to handle her for the farrier.
When I used to loan out there was a list of any health issues or anything that would affect their management as part of the contract, this is not only for their information, but also for my piece of mind.
At the start of winter they get new rugs if they need them, they go with tack that fits, and I have paid for a new saddle for one who was out on summer loan. My main problems with loaners are mainly that either them or someone else knows better than me, and either changes bits, adds bits of tack or does not have them shod properly. One had even set up another loan for the pony to a friend, thinking that would be OK, no it comes home, and they go through the whole process with me. As soon as they say they do not want it I collect it ASAP, as human nature seems to be in my experience is they skimp on things as soon as it's no longer useful to them. I have only once got back tack that had been cleaned.
Non disclosure is for me a dealbreaker, how can you trust an owner that does not disclose things that are relevant to maintaining their animals health and wellbeing, and in the case of the brood mare led to injury of anyone who was going to handle her for the farrier.
When I used to loan out there was a list of any health issues or anything that would affect their management as part of the contract, this is not only for their information, but also for my piece of mind.
At the start of winter they get new rugs if they need them, they go with tack that fits, and I have paid for a new saddle for one who was out on summer loan. My main problems with loaners are mainly that either them or someone else knows better than me, and either changes bits, adds bits of tack or does not have them shod properly. One had even set up another loan for the pony to a friend, thinking that would be OK, no it comes home, and they go through the whole process with me. As soon as they say they do not want it I collect it ASAP, as human nature seems to be in my experience is they skimp on things as soon as it's no longer useful to them. I have only once got back tack that had been cleaned.
Lillian_paddington
Well-Known Member
When I loaned we paid everything. In this situation if you really want to keep him I’d look at getting some second hand tack from the saddler that fits and you could sell after the end of the loan. Is the physio/chiro just routine every 3 months or so for a stiff horse or do they want to do more intensive treatment? If they want to sedate etc for it and the issues were there before the start of the loan then I’d talk to the owner and see if you can at least get them to pay for some of it.
Equally are you in a position to buy this horse? Would the owner sell him at a reasonable price? Then there’s no worry about the horse returning to its owner once you’ve spent money on tack and vet bills to get him running properly. Only if you like the horse enough of course!
Equally are you in a position to buy this horse? Would the owner sell him at a reasonable price? Then there’s no worry about the horse returning to its owner once you’ve spent money on tack and vet bills to get him running properly. Only if you like the horse enough of course!