Question for HR Peeps Please

[Quigleyandme]

I worked across several departments of a UK local authority between 1997 and 2019 when I moved to Ireland. I applied for a volunteer role with a charity that works alongside the local authority here. The UK LA has stated they don’t provide references - only dates of employment. So my questions are; is this now mainstream and how do people get a job if their previous employer won’t provide a reference? I am trying to get paid employment because I want to buy something that will make a big dent in my capital if I don’t earn to achieve it.

 

[Bernster]

Pretty common in the uk especially with bigger companies. Makes them pretty limited in value really. Means most companies should accept that as they won’t often get a lot of extra info and the standard ref (dates and role/title) doesn’t necessarily mean something negative. You might have more luck getting someone from your old work to give you a personal reference with more detail in it.

 

[chaps89]

I'm not a HR bod, but my last company the person leaving had to pay for a reference to be given, and again it only confirmed job title and employment dates.
I don't think giving personal/detailed references is really done nowadays, probably liability issues related at a guess.

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

Common practice now, just confirm dates of employment and sometimes job title. A lot of employers I have worked with recently won't accept personal references or "to whom it may concern" ones either. One company I worked with would only accept emailed references from a company email address in response to an email sent by them: they'd been caught out in the past by references given by friends.

 

[Bernster]

Blimey, never heard of someone having to pay for one!

 

[chaps89]

Blimey, never heard of someone having to pay for one!

Yep, large company, it wasn't too much from memory but still. My current job didn't even ask for references so I didn't have to find out all the details.

 

[Apizz2019]

I worked across several departments of a UK local authority between 1997 and 2019 when I moved to Ireland. I applied for a volunteer role with a charity that works alongside the local authority here. The UK LA has stated they don’t provide references - only dates of employment. So my questions are; is this now mainstream and how do people get a job if their previous employer won’t provide a reference? I am trying to get paid employment because I want to buy something that will make a big dent in my capital if I don’t earn to achieve it.

I'm in HR/recruitment - in-house.

Referencing has changed a lot in recent years and many companies, my employer included, will only provide dates of employment and job title.

This is for fear of litigation, which has happened in the past and is a real risk if information is provided which is to the detriment of the former employee.

In the past, many offers of employment would hinge on satisfactory references - often job offers would be withdrawn because of sickness, reasons for leaving, performance etc and this created quite a lot of work for HR teams and sometimes litigation from former employees.

The company I work for no longer makes offers subject to references and doesn't have probationary periods, as they too are not worth the paper they're written on.

You could get personal references to support the standard dates of employment references - this seems to be what a lot of job seekers do nowadays.

 

[Sprat]

^^What Apizz said.

HR bod here, yes very standard practice. What you could do is obtain date confirmation and also a character reference from someone you previously worked with (if they are happy to).

Edited to add - character / personal references are given with no association to the company.

 

[Quigleyandme]

Thanks all. I’ve never been very self-confident and I was trying not to think they thought I was a complete dud and didn’t dare say so.

 

[Keith_Beef]

I'm in HR/recruitment - in-house.

Referencing has changed a lot in recent years and many companies, my employer included, will only provide dates of employment and job title.

This is for fear of litigation, which has happened in the past and is a real risk if information is provided which is to the detriment of the former employee.

In the past, many offers of employment would hinge on satisfactory references - often job offers would be withdrawn because of sickness, reasons for leaving, performance etc and this created quite a lot of work for HR teams and sometimes litigation from former employees.

The company I work for no longer makes offers subject to references and doesn't have probationary periods, as they too are not worth the paper they're written on.

You could get personal references to support the standard dates of employment references - this seems to be what a lot of job seekers do nowadays.

I ran into this when I was in the US; as part of induction training we were told that the only information that the company would provide if asked for references would be to provide start and end dates and the job title at the end.

The explanation was exactly that there had been litigation in the past. Two examples were given (and I can't tell if they are genuine or were invented for the purposes of illustration):

• a company had hired a candidate based on a glowing reference from a previous employer, the person turned out to be rubbish, the company sought damages for the cost of hiring, firing, and restarting the recruitment process,
• a very well-qualified candidate had been turned down based on a not-so-glowing reference from a previous employer that had been written by somebody with a personal grudge, the person sought damages for loss of earnings from the previous employer.

 

[hollyandivy123]

in academia references are normally sort, but as its a small world and everyone knows everyone in the field normally, a lot of coffee chats would happen.......if you know what i mean.......

we took an internal candidate with a glowing reference, when we found out afterwards it was glowing so the group could get rid and get someone else in, HR said as internal candidate there was nothing we could do..........they were deemed to have done through probation, really wasn't fair on them as it was not their comfort zone

References are such a personal thing, i might know of one professor who would write bad ones for the people he wanted to keep, also would only keep people on a rolling 1yr contract even if he had the money for 5yrs, to keep them on their toes and refused to say to a senior member of staff if they had got the grant until 4 weeks to the end of contract in case they left before the work was finished.

 

[McFluff]

Another HR bod here. We only give ‘factual’ references, so job title(s), dates of employment and number of sick days/occasions in previous 2 years.
I would never trust a reference that was judgement based, which is what with a view of performance is. I have experience of previous employers giving glowing references to get rid. I also have experience of someone doing poorly in a previous job, but performing well for us. There is also the risk of being liable for a false reference (or at least one that either the person or their future employer doesn’t agree with).
I wouldn’t take it personally at all. Good luck

 

[Keith_Beef]

Another HR bod here. We only give ‘factual’ references, so job title(s), dates of employment and number of sick days/occasions in previous 2 years.

I'm a bit surprised that you can divulge the number of sick days that a person has taken.

 

[View]

As they say, factual references giving start/end dates, job title and sometimes a reason for leaving are standard now.

However, all you HR bods - keep an eye on the High Court case in Glasgow regarding a bin lorry driver. Depending on the outcome, this might change.

 

[Keith_Beef]

As they say, factual references giving start/end dates, job title and sometimes a reason for leaving are standard now.

However, all you HR bods - keep an eye on the High Court case in Glasgow regarding a bin lorry driver. Depending on the outcome, this might change.

I'd forgotten (if I ever knew) about this story.

 

[View]

I'd forgotten (if I ever knew) about this story.

For many reasons, this story is very close to home for me. Not only was I Glasgow born and bred (until my little part of it was moved into South Lanarkshire), but I'm a Transport Manager (please excuse the capitals - not trying to big up my job, but this has a specific meaning with respect to Operator Licensing).

 

[sherry90]

Generally factual references are provided as standard by most companies. The only exception I have seen maybe where a reference is agreed as part of a settlement.

 

[McFluff]

I'm a bit surprised that you can divulge the number of sick days that a person has taken.

Yes, at the moment you can - the environment is very much defined by Tribunal outcomes, so this may well change at some point in the future. The number of days/occasions in a defined period is a matter of record. Many of the standard reference forms seek this. Any receiving employer would be wise to check with the potential employee if this raised any concerns and check whether there was a reasonable explanation (i.e. I would not advise removing an offer purely based on this info - further investigation definitely needed).

 

[McFluff]

For many reasons, this story is very close to home for me. Not only was I Glasgow born and bred (until my little part of it was moved into South Lanarkshire), but I'm a Transport Manager (please excuse the capitals - not trying to big up my job, but this has a specific meaning with respect to Operator Licensing).

Totally agree View - watching this one with interest. I've always wondered why the (alleged) issue at his previous employers hadn't impacted on his license. The one driving related issue we had (rare for us, as not core to our business) ended up with an update being made to the DVLA.

 

[Birker2020]

I'm not a HR bod, but my last company the person leaving had to pay for a reference to be given, and again it only confirmed job title and employment dates.
I don't think giving personal/detailed references is really done nowadays, probably liability issues related at a guess.

I have a smart folder with laminated letter headed references from previous clients that have been particularly happy with my work.

As a freelance its great to provide evidence at an interview (even for short term 'contract duration' temp work you are required to interview) and looks impressive. I have about 14 spanning some 15 years for all manner of roles although most are construction related.

I have two from 2014 from a LA when I worked in a CYPF admin position in different locations within the borough.

I doubt you would be able to get a written reference these days but construction sites are a law to themselves with their head office a million miles away. Its fairly laid back so I hope to get one from this current client at the end of the project as they are pleased with my work.