question for those who NEVER smack their horses

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JLD

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genuine question - I know some people would never ever smack their horses and I was wondering how you would respond to naughtyness or exert discipline. I will occasionally give mine a slap on his neck or side if he tries to kick out or bite ( is not in pain - has been allowed to get away with allsorts without being taught appropriate behaviour before I got him ) - am not talking beatings just a light slap and a firm 'no', and was wondering how I could alternatively reprimand him so he knows not to do it ? it doesnt seem a problem and he hardly ever does it now having done it all the time before.
 
mine very seldom need to be reprimanded but if a situation arises then I really just have to lower my tone to a bit of growl, like magnet get on...., and he gets on.
 
Ned gets a once in a while smack, but it's very very VERY rarely needed now.

Honestly, I could beat the living daylights out of Cookie and it wouldn't make a difference. I've seen him take a beating from other horses and nothing seems to keep him down! However, a loud, scary growl will stop him in his tracks.
 
Never needed to smack baby once in 7 years . given she was battered before i bought(actually was the reason i bought her) it would have been pointless to hit her i had to win her trust by being consistent firm fair and kind. She learnt that "ah ah ah ah" and a change of my body meant just think about what you are doing. Perfect manners,trusting and a total sweetheart to own but with iissues caused by her previous life and sight. miss my little friend so much
 
JLD said:
genuine question - I know some people would never ever smack their horses and I was wondering how you would respond to naughtyness or exert discipline. I will occasionally give mine a slap on his neck or side if he tries to kick out or bite ( is not in pain - has been allowed to get away with allsorts without being taught appropriate behaviour before I got him ) - am not talking beatings just a light slap and a firm 'no', and was wondering how I could alternatively reprimand him so he knows not to do it ? it doesnt seem a problem and he hardly ever does it now having done it all the time before.
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I don't think in terms of "exerting discipline" or even "naughtiness", but punish (or ignore or reward) behaviours, whichever I judge to be most effective. Smacking isn't in my normal repertoire of punishments. That's not to say I would never smack if I felt I needed to, but alternatives work fine for me as a rule. Over the years, I've found it less and less necessary to reprimand, especially physically. I'm not averse to the occasional growl though. Either that means horses are becoming better behaved, or I'm getting better at dealing with bad behaviour. I would tend/like to think the latter! :smile3:
 
Yes, am watching this thread with interest having just returned from a show in the UK in which I saw a lady struck in the head by her own horse (not hurt, amazingly) and responding with "there, there darling". Horse went on to create further mayhem at the show (long story).
 
yes , that is a better term - respond to unwanted behaviours ! punish and discipline wasnt quite right. I dont like smacking and do it very rarely, or any form of physical retribution - I think it often escalates too easily but literally everywhere I have been it seems to be the norm so that is why I was keen to seek other suggestions. after all I would never hit my children so it feels wrong to slap my horse however infrequently and i always feel bad afterwards !
 
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I'm another one who uses 'Ah-ah-ah' and a change in tone, she reacts to this as if I just gave her five lashes ;) I push her about a bit too, because when she wants to try me usually tries leaning on me or walking across me to see if she can get away with it. A good press with all five fingertips and she suddenly remembers her manners.

One time she did think about biting me when her feed bowl was on the floor and I wouldn't let her go, or at least she made an ugly face and nodded her muzzle at me, though no teeth were shown - and I'd have LIKED to have given her one hell of a smack for that, but didn't. I'm still undecided on whether I should have or not, but she's not threatened since so I figure she picked up on my body language that she'd not win that way.
 
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fattylumpkin said:
I'm another one who uses 'Ah-ah-ah' and a change in tone, she reacts to this as if I just gave her five lashes ;) I push her about a bit too, because when she wants to try me usually tries leaning on me or walking across me to see if she can get away with it. A good press with all five fingertips and she suddenly remembers her manners.

One time she did think about biting me when her feed bowl was on the floor and I wouldn't let her go, or at least she made an ugly face and nodded her muzzle at me, though no teeth were shown - and I'd have LIKED to have given her one hell of a smack for that, but didn't. I'm still undecided on whether I should have or not, but she's not threatened since so I figure she picked up on my body language that she'd not win that way.
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What would you have done if she DID bite you?
 
Since I missed the cue to warn her off before she could actually lunge, I had braced myself up to just take the bite since I could see it was coming (she was aiming for my belly too so I was thinking 'ohhh this is going to hurt') and be on my guard for next time so I could catch her before she could try it again. Then she surprised me by not following through with her threat. So I know this is probably weird, but yeah, take the bite and just be on guard to catch her at the right moment next time. If there is one.
 
I bought a dominant cob mare in 2012, pushy barging type, a few shouts and prods seemed to do the trick, until she took a chunk out of the top of my head whilst I put her knee boots on. Luckily I had a woolly hat on.

I always keep a length of blue pipe in the corner and she got several hard smacks, she ran back and turned her arse on me, ears back and very angry at being disciplined. I freely admit I lost my temper at her aggression and really set about her.

From that day on she has been sweet, no biting or faces and can be trusted. It is probably rubbish, but she seemed to need boundaries setting, she was very much in charge in her previous home, both on the ground and under saddle, and expected the same with me.

I look back, possibly with some shame, at the beating I gave her, but the change in her was remarkable. That was January and she remains a changed, for the better, horse.
 
Like AA my gelding could be a pushy so and so if he was allowed to be. He came to me as an unspoiled 3yr old, I feel genuine responsibility that he remains well mannered and good to handle even if I don't intend to ever sell him on.

He is now 5 and a half.

As like any youngster he has pushed me, and once he did get a beating. He attempted to push through the stable door, I was between him and it, ow. At being sent back he lashed out, voice and whip were ensued and never again has he pushed or lashed out. ever.

He does get smacked now and again, he backs down.

He also gets kisses, hugs and hand fed :O treats, he knows limits and boundaries, they aren't stupid and if consequences to their actions are made clear then they learn.

imo i have never met a horse with good manners who has been disciplined through ''ah-ah'' unless that is a prelude to a slap...
 
JLD said:
genuine question - I know some people would never ever smack their horses and I was wondering how you would respond to naughtyness or exert discipline. I will occasionally give mine a slap on his neck or side if he tries to kick out or bite ( is not in pain - has been allowed to get away with allsorts without being taught appropriate behaviour before I got him ) - am not talking beatings just a light slap and a firm 'no', and was wondering how I could alternatively reprimand him so he knows not to do it ? it doesnt seem a problem and he hardly ever does it now having done it all the time before.
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Well, I suppose I fall firmly into this category but I only deal to day with my own horses and at home. Non bite or kick or lash out in any way. I don't know why but they don't. If one suddenly bit me I can't say I wouldn't slap in a shock/reflex response.

I have a variety of noises I use to move one out of the way sharply if required but that's rare now and a good clap of my hands has worked in the past. A couple of mine had severe confidence problems and getting them calm was the problem. Hitting, getting noisy or agitated definitely wouldn't have been appropriate.

I expect a lot is to do with having all mine a long time now with no new arrivals/unknown horses for a good few years.

ps. I definitely do not fall into the "aw, good boy" category which actually can reward unwanted behaviours.
 
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I am probably not qualified to answer this as I do smack them, but my grown up boy is very neurotic and tbh never needs smacking. If he thinks you might he panics, so it would gain nothing. I make a 'tshoosh' noise and that gets him sitting up and thinking if necessary.
My 3 year old gets a smack when he needs it, on the chest or shoulder.
 
Cortez said:
Yes, am watching this thread with interest having just returned from a show in the UK in which I saw a lady struck in the head by her own horse (not hurt, amazingly) and responding with "there, there darling". Horse went on to create further mayhem at the show (long story).
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It was probally homebred as well.
 
A lot of interesting comments. I do think if you bred or buy weanlings in, you are totally responsible for their upbringing and it's your fault if you rear them rude.

Older, bought in horses invariably arrive with baggage. I have a pair of 2 yr olds, the one I bred is fine, steps back without being asked etc. The bought in is rude but learning better manners. Nether have been smacked.
I really believe all horses reflect their upbringing, and so many people fail to put the initial manners in.
 
I always notice that the people with the badly behaved horses normally also have badly behaved children and dogs, and vice versa for the ones with obedient horses
 
fattylumpkin said:
Since I missed the cue to warn her off before she could actually lunge, I had braced myself up to just take the bite since I could see it was coming (she was aiming for my belly too so I was thinking 'ohhh this is going to hurt') and be on my guard for next time so I could catch her before she could try it again. Then she surprised me by not following through with her threat. So I know this is probably weird, but yeah, take the bite and just be on guard to catch her at the right moment next time. If there is one.
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"Take the bite"? I'm sorry, but I think you are mad, and deluded! Note all the other responders who reference a jolly good wallop, followed by respect and no further misdemeanours.
 
I try not to smack mine, though he can be a bit ticklish and if he kicks out while I'm trying to groom a back leg he gets a smack on the bum. But anyway, I don't really like doing that as he's a sensitive soul, a shout or a growl usually does the job with him.
 
I can't remember the last time I had to wallop one of mine, but it's always in the toolbox..........And I have seriously abused/rescue horses in my collection.
 
I like to think I use the minimum level of discipline that is actually effective. My youngster is currently testing the boundaries and I resorted to two smacks and a shout today as she tried to squash me against the wall of her box. If I have a falling out with a horse I try to ensure that subsequent good behaviour is rewarded (pat/scratch or kind word rather than food) to ensure we both understand the rules.
 
I think it very much depends on the horse. I have smacked mine on the very odd occasion probably 3 times in 12 years of ownership. It is the noise and not the pain (just think of the way they bite another horse that steps out of line) that brings them up short. A slap on the lower neck, barrel or bum will do no harm and is a reminder about boundaries. Some horses will up the anti and therefore a useless excercise.

I usually just growled at mine.
 
This kind of reminds me of the 'traditional/natural' thread. I do understand that there are different ways of dealing with horses, but I'm not sure I get it when behavioural problems are always blamed on the handler. I do believe that horses have a mind of their own and are not robots conditioned by this prey/predator analogy. They have been domesticated for so long and I have never thought that one of my horses has ever thought of me as another horse - I just don't think they are that stupid. They are adaptable and clever and resourceful, imo they like to do what they want and will push the boundaries - like a dog who wants to sleep on the bed and has to learn he can't. A dog who protests might growl, a horse might walk over you. I know there is clicker training, push and release etc, etc - (not disagreeing with these), but ffs if a quick reprimand isn't right what is? Yes, teach them from the beginning what is acceptable - doesn't mean they won't ever try it on though :)

ETA: IMO treating them like fluffy bunnies is a recipe for tesco
 
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Sorry, but "take the bite" are you NUTS?!!!

If one of mine came at me with the intention of hurting me they would get what for in no uncertain terms, I would scream and shout and jump up and down and make them think twice about coming after the bad woman again -EVER.

I don't need to lay hands on mine usually, but I have no qualms about doing so if the need arises.
 
Cortez said:
"Take the bite"? I'm sorry, but I think you are mad, and deluded! Note all the other responders who reference a jolly good wallop, followed by respect and no further misdemeanours.
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That's fine :) From my own perspective I've been on yard with horses that bite: the owner gives the horse a crack, the horse backs off, then a week later the horse bites again. What changed? I'm not sure smacking is all that effective. Pretty much every horse I've ever known bite regularly was smacked for it and it didn't make the least bit of difference, though I'm sure it made the owner feel better.

In my situation with my mare she's a rescue and I didn't plan to make a pet of her. I was warned before taking her on that she'd regularly bite the previous rider who'd tried to work with her, once grabbing the rider on the shoulder with her teeth and giving the poor woman a shake. I won't even go in to the issues she had when mounted. So from day one from when she arrived on the yard ground rules were laid and I reinforce them every single day. I spent the first few months expecting to be bitten and seemingly it will never happen now, since the one chance she had, she passed up. Without going into too much biographical detail her behavior in all other respects has vastly improved and I love her to bits, more than any other horse I've ever worked with. Personally I think her improvement is down to regular exercise, the right diet and the fact she's lost quite a bit of weight. That and (I hope) she sees me as the boss.
 
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