Questions on Instructor Techniques (or how to stop our marital disputes) – sorry LONG

Saucisson

Saucisson

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Good Morning everybody, please give some advice, I'm getting sooooooooo frustrated. :(

Background Info

Me - I am what I would describe as a novice with balls, I started riding when I was 10 but have had a long break in my 20s. I have had a variety of lessons/instructors on and off in the UK. I want to start competing in dressage/jumping this winter and start low level eventing next year. OH is my instructor. I have had my horse for 18 months.

Horse – 15.1h, 7 year old half-arab gelding. Very honest guy, not at all complicated. Good all-rounder to the level I want to compete at (he's a good lad but don't think we're on our way to Grand Prix dressage or 1.6m jumping). OH is training and competing on him.

OH – Very experienced horseman (french speaker). He has competed to 2* on cheap horses that he's trained himself. I'm not blinded by lurve here, he is a very good rider. He gives lessons and trains horses for others. He has lessons with 2 ex-french team members. Very classical french style riding technique.

Ok, almost every time I have a lesson on the flat (not such a problem in jumping) it usually results in him storming off, me getting upset or a slanging match (very entertaining for the others at the yard). The reason is that he's always telling me the same thing. I think I'm doing it, he says I'm not (to do with the internal rein, he says I'm taking it and keeping it on turns – he wants me to take, position the horse and then release the tension, I think I am). I just can't understand why he thinks I'm keeping the rein, to me I'm really letting the tension go.

He always wants to take the reins (from the ground) to show me (done it many times before). Thing is the horse gets confused and then won't go forward and I don't think I' learning anything if he has hold of the reins. Last night I refused to do this again and he went off in a strop. I realise I don't know as much as him but I know what I don't like.

Also, he has a tendency to tell me things when I'm in the middle of something – I find it impossible to concentrate and listen at the same time (is that just me??). He'll start telling me to do this, do that when horse is having a silly moment when I'm just concentrating on staying on. I know he's trying to help me but I can't help but get cross.

I'm getting so frustrated, I don't feel like I'm progressing as it always boils down to this problem. My lesson experience in the UK tended to concentrate on legs and position rather than hands/reins – maybe it's just too advanced? I prefer carry out a movement, instructor to watch and then discuss after.

Questions –

Is our difference in level too much, he can't understand that I need a “transitional” level (he doesn't normally teach novices)?
Am I being too difficult and not trying to do what he says?
Are we too close to have a real instructor/pupil relationship? Is it possible to have OH give you lessons?
Do I need to start paying for an English speaking instructor to progress and avoid arguments? OH would have to approve of them (fair enough as he's training my horse for free), would be expensive and would need to transport the horse.

Fray Bentos steak and kidney pudding and a cup of tea for getting this far! :D
 
Oh dear dog! :eek: Run away and get a new Instructor asap! Mine is also an Instructor (as well as a farrier) and I have only had a few lessons with him, mainly as we usually like each other and would like to stay that way. Unless you are just using him for his horse skills of course ;) it is a recipe for disaster in my opinion.

Can you try to do the rein thing off the horse?
 
You're too close... you need someone else... I couldn't take that off my hubby (not that he's horsy) but my trainer can tell me I'm a stupid female dog and not listening to him and I just try harder. (BTW my trainer and I have a great relationship, if he doesn't shout I don't think he's teaching me properly)

Blitz
 
It's very difficult to accept lessons from a family member and not end up wanting to kill them!! Despite the cost, I think you would be better off with another instructor and you may find the lack of familiarity actually means you understand each other better!
 
amymay said:
Ooo never get taught to ride, drive or anything else by your father, mother or lover!
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Tend to agree. Monkeybum thinks I criticize - I think I'm being constructive. Hence we now use other instructors. I did teach hubby to drive but that was years ago (young love) but now he tells me what to do!!
 
amymay said:
Ooo never get taught to ride, drive or anything else by your father, mother or lover!
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ditto!! recipe for disaster, i would get a freelance instructor that he is happy with! just say to him that you dont want to disagrements with teaching to get between you, im sure he can understand.
 
Totally agree with all of the above, find another instructor whom you OH approves but at the correct level for you to be able to feel you are not totally overfaced.

Next question is how will he take this?
 
Ha ha, thanks for the responses, you have made me chuckle. It has confirmed my suspicions though, it is difficult to take “orders” from one's beloved! It's funny how we don't seem to have the same problems with jumping though? Maybe I'm not quite so cr*p at that :p

The problem is that it hurts his feelings a bit when I suggest I have another instructor. (I have had lessons at the yard but to say that OH does not approve of their technique is a MASSIVE understatement – he hates it when I go for lessons there). The language difference doesn't help and the fact that we are both a bit “feisty”.

Also, I think he feels that if I go to someone else it will reflect badly on his reputation as an instructor. (Honestly, he is SO different with his “paying” pupils – the very picture of patience and calm – wheras I got told my legs are “stupid” last night, eh? What? - bless him).

There is a guy fairly near who is superb and OH has had lessons with him so obviously approves. He's expensive but very calm and speaks good English. Maybe just to go to him every few weeks?

Going to have to be very diplomatic methinks..............
 
Saucisson said:
Ha ha, thanks for the responses, you have made me chuckle. It has confirmed my suspicions though, it is difficult to take “orders” from one's beloved! It's funny how we don't seem to have the same problems with jumping though? Maybe I'm not quite so cr*p at that :p

The problem is that it hurts his feelings a bit when I suggest I have another instructor. (I have had lessons at the yard but to say that OH does not approve of their technique is a MASSIVE understatement – he hates it when I go for lessons there). The language difference doesn't help and the fact that we are both a bit “feisty”.

Also, I think he feels that if I go to someone else it will reflect badly on his reputation as an instructor. (Honestly, he is SO different with his “paying” pupils – the very picture of patience and calm – wheras I got told my legs are “stupid” last night, eh? What? - bless him).

There is a guy fairly near who is superb and OH has had lessons with him so obviously approves. He's expensive but very calm and speaks good English. Maybe just to go to him every few weeks?

Going to have to be very diplomatic methinks..............
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Show him this thread.... it may help...

Blitz
 
I agree with others to find a new instructor. Maybe have a chat with him about how he is an amazing instructor blah blah...but his techniques are too advanced for your level of riding or something?

My OH has tried to teach me to cook and play the guitar....but every time he tries to teach me something we get so frustrated and angry at each other....if anyone else tries to teach me then I am fine! :)
 
Saucisson said:
(Honestly, he is SO different with his “paying” pupils – the very picture of patience and calm – wheras I got told my legs are “stupid” last night, eh? What? - bless him).
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I think thats normal as well. I teach my daughter and the daughter of the person whos school we use at the same time. Both of similar age, ability and similar horses.
With owners daughter I'm encouraging and just keep chipping away at a problem. With my daughter is more a case of "Do you want to improve or not because if you carrying on riding like a numpty putting zero effort in you'll never get anywhere. Do it again and this time try riding for a change instead if sitting there in lala land"

Ooops :o I actually noticed myself doing this last week

On the flip side though I've noticed when she does have a session with another instructor she tries a dam sight harder than she does in our sessions so perhaps justified?
 
Thank you everyone for making me realise that it's not just that I'm a difficult cowbag (although that may have something to do with it). I'm sure it isn't so easy for him too and as you've said JunoXV, perhaps I'll try harder for someone else. It just seems a shame that I have such a great resource “on tap” but I need to go and pay for lessons to keep the peace.

The best thing is, while we argue away, Small Horse just stands there and then lets out a big sigh – he get bored waiting around, we must really annoy him poor lad. :D

OH has taught me ski though, we haven't had too many problems there. But, the difference there is that I had zero experience of skiing before so I just do as I'm told. Dangerously, I do have some experience of riding and there's always the issue of the horse too ie what's best for him, if the problem is him or me etc etc

Amymay, I would love to be straight with him but i think he might take it as criticism and OH doesn't “do” criticism - cue storming off with shouts of “I don't discuss!”- he's a bit of a character.:D
 
I have experienced this on both sides.
My OH started riding when he was 40 and I taught him initially. It was always a bit stressful, and he wasn't bothered about competing, so as soon as he was capable I borrowed a horse and took him out hacking. He learned so much that way...within a year he was hacking my instructor's medium level dressage horse out; because he's a very calm person he was able to chill the horse out and they adored each other.

Then he learnt to ride western, and when we got our quarter horse, I let him do all the clinics and lessons he wanted as well as 99 per cent of the competing. When our mare's English saddle stopped fitting her, I began to take western a bit more seriously, and ran into all sorts of problems, partly because I have different views about how firm you need to be with this horse from my OH, and the horse soon learnt to take advantage.

After some big arguments (which only wound the horse up more) and a lesson with his instructor where I was nearly in tears because he was trying to 'help' from the sidelines, I banned him from coming anywhere near when I was having a lesson, booked myself in with his two instructors (he was allowed to watch for half an hour in one clinic, but only because I knew that particular instructor would not tolerate him butting in :) )
I now have the confidence to decide whether to take his advice or not, and we do help each other out with show prep.

I would go for another instructor even if only just a short while; explain to your OH that you want to break the cycle you've got into and enjoy your riding together.

It is extremely challenging but we get so much pleasure from watching each other compete now so it is well worth it!
 
It isn't just the fact that you are in a relationship though, people have very different learning styles and you need an instructor who compliments thier own style.

If you need to do an exercise and then discuss it afterwards but your instructor tends to talk to you while you are doing things then you will both get frustrated. My husband is just like you, he can't cope with instructors trying to give instructions while he is riding, he likes to stop and talk it through and then do it. Any more than about three words at a time while he is actually riding and he starts to feel like his head is going to explode. So he is very picky about which instructors he uses!

But for someone else who likes things explaining they may find those same instructors don't actively teach enough for them, and abandon them.

There are technical terms for the different styles, and psychometric tests you can do to work out which you are. Some are definitely one or another and others are a mix. There are about four styles, ones who like to watch then do, ones who like to listen, ones who like to feel it for themselves, and ones who need to talk things through.
 
Sorry but get another instructor if you want to stay together! My OH and iI have major disagreement over the animals! He leaves me to it now - unless I ask for/need his professional opinion!:D
 
Hmmm, there definitely seems to be a consensus of opinion here – pay for an instructor woman!

It's really interesting to hear about the different teaching techniques – I always think that I have a very “male” brain because when I'm concentrating I really struggle to take anything else in and can get really quite annoyed if I'm interrupted. I thought everyone was like that. :confused:

It would be interesting to see a post just on this. I can't see how anybody can handle doing stuff/listening at the same time.

I can't handle, shouting instructors either - I'm of the opinion that if I want to be shouted at, I'll go home, not clean out the cat litter and get shouted at for free.

The local guy is just my "type" calm, quite and he specialises in dressage. Hopefully, if I manage to persaude OH it's a good idea and he isn't too offended, he'll still agree to teach me jumping. :cool:

Plan of action:-
Ply him with drink
Tell him that I want a lesson every now and then with this local guy.
Remind him how much his lessons with his instructors cost.
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is.
Give him another beer
Ask him to ask his friend to book it for me (friend is a livery at this guy's yard)

Sorted – see you all at Badminton 2011! :D:D:D
 
Saucisson said:
Plan of action:-
Ply him with drink
Tell him that I want a lesson every now and then with this local guy.
Remind him how much his lessons with his instructors cost.
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is.
Give him another beer
Ask him to ask his friend to book it for me (friend is a livery at this guy's yard)
Click to expand...

Not a bad plan but could be improved from a male perspective.
May i suggest.
Ply him with drink
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is
Give him another beer
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is
Give him another beer
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is
Give him another beer
Tell him that I want a lesson every now and then with this local guy.

Do NOT....
Remind him how much his lessons with his instructors cost.
 
Okay if you don't want to offend him / can't get a new instructor soon etc, and if the problem is you 'think' your doing what he's asking you to do and he says your 'not' can i make a small suggestion.

Get someone with a video camera to film you and let you actually see what you are doing and get him to discuss what he thinks you should be doing while standing next to the screen.

My mum's a former golf professional and it was extremely difficult when you are discussing something that requires 'feel'. She's ask people to say, rotate their hips and they would think they were but only on the video play back did they realise they weren't rotating as much as swinging sideways etc.

Mum would stand next to the playback tv and actually show them what she would do - therefor they had a side by side comparison. I also got my mate to do that with my god daughter (mates daughter) on her pony as she just couldn't work out the difference between what she was being asked to do and what she was doing.

Also, if you go over it at home you can do so while having a glass of wine so hopefully everyone is happy.

Honestly give it a go. :D
 
I haven't read other posts but IMO get yourself another instructor. I wouldn't recommend having lessons from anyone you're close to be that Uncle, cousin, cat or great aunt Maud it always leads to friction.
 
JunoXV said:
Not a bad plan but could be improved from a male perspective.
May i suggest.
Ply him with drink
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is
Give him another beer
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is
Give him another beer
Give him a big kiss/cuddle tell him what a great rider he is
Give him another beer
Tell him that I want a lesson every now and then with this local guy.

Do NOT....
Remind him how much his lessons with his instructors cost.
Click to expand...

Hee hee, yep beer/cuddles - definitely the diplomatic solution for boys :D


Minxie, that is a great idea. I always video OH when he has his lessons. He did suggest it a few weeks ago but we haven't got round to it. But, yes, perhaps it will help me see the error which is good for all of us (especially poor Small Horse who would probably appreciate some continuity).

Who wants the nice squidgy base bit off the Fray Bentos?

Right, going to go and “tap” that resource tonight now :D:D:D
 
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