Quiet constant contact or moving the bit?

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Jingleballs

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I'm in the process of finding a new flatwork instructor at the moment and have had 3 lessons with 3 different instructors to get a feel for them so I can decide who is best for us.

Instructor 1 - I have totally discounted as she's basically asking me to really pull him in at the front and as he is a heavy cob I find this very hard and for days after the lesson my back and shoulders were very sore.

Instructor 2 - focused on a quite but constant contact - very light with just a feel of him in my hands and focused on getting him going forward with lots of trot walk/walk trot transition and also periods of me giving away either rein if he was leaning to ask him to carry himself and balance.

Instructor 3 - again focused on transitions but also asked me to keep a constant contact on the outside rein while "buzzing" the inside rein intermittently to move the bit lower in his mouth. She also had me flexing him to the left and right to loosen off his neck.

So of the remaining 2 options I am now having to decide who I want to use although I will probably have a second lesson with both just to see how we go. I really like instructor 2's approach - it's all about being quiet and balanced. Instructor 3 also has some good techniques but I'm really unsure about this buzzing of the rein - my horse seem a bit unhappy with this and we had some head tossing and lots of playing with the bit in his mouth - but them perhaps that's not a bad thing and he's only annoyed because he is being asked to work properly! Another issue is that for him to listen to your hand you need to be quite strong - he's good at listening to leg and seat but needs a really strong buzz to get him to soften which is hard work and it feels like I'm yanking his mouth a bit!

Argh - I have no idea what to do!

Any thoughts!
 
it depends on how your horse reacted to each instructor i think.

number 2 sounds good but i am wary of having a really quiet contact as i think a lot of people are surprised at how strong a horse feels when it is really working forwards into the contact and carrying itself.
but no.2 may explain that more when you have a basic outline to work off?

i do the 'buzzing' down the rein but it is very light and not all of the time and always coupled with legs and seat to prevent riding the horse back to front.
 
Hi, I also like the idea of #2 instructor. You dont say if your horse is forward or sluggish as it would give us a better idea to why the instructors were telling you what to do.
If your horse isnt very forward you need to get him forward to be able to come through from behind and so he can lighten his forehand, because you cant do anything if you dont have forwardness. This is why your instructor is telling you to have a light contact as you dont want to give him mixed messages but you need to get him going forward first and foremost.
If your horse is forward and he is working from behind, then you will have to contain that energy so as it doesn`t all just go out of the front door, so to speak. That means that until he is carrying himself properly, and lifting his back, you need a contact but don`t confuse this with you pulling or him leaning.
When he is carrying himself properly your contact will be light but his shoulders will feel very light and you will feel that you have power steering.
I also am a big believer in lots of transitions and so far, I like the #2 instructor. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks guys - my lad is a HW cob so although he is forward he has not been working correctly from behind so has more muscle at the front and very strong neck.

Peanot - I understand what you mean about giving mixed messages - I have a very bad habit of giving away my right hand - when I had a lesson with Instructor 2 she was very quick to pick up on my own balance issues etc and flagged this as an issue and we spent a lot of time working on this.

RI 3 noticed this also but had me keep my right hand on the saddle and what happened was when we were cantering and my hand was in the correct position he was droping into trot as he though this was a half halt.
 
We all sometimes have little issues and we get into bad habits with our position so when I am having an issue with my horse, eg, too much bend in lateral, not enough bend, horse too forward or too flat or falling in, 1/4s in etc, I look at what my own body is doing, and usually when I put myself in check, my horse automatically rounds under me and gets it right. I have lessons with a dressage instructor who concentrates on my posiiton through the whole lesson.
She has done wonders with my horse just by working with my position.
 
#2 sounds v good to me, fwiw.
i disagree with millitiger, a horse does not have to be strong in the contact in order to be working correctly, and if your lad is a HW cob with a big neck you need an instructor who shows you and him that he can carry himself and use his strength to hold himself up, and you can ride him with a featherlight contact - nicer for you by far! self carriage is not 'helped carriage' and if he learns to do the latter and to lean on you... eek.
v best of luck!
 
I like the sound of instructor 2 also. I do sometimes "sponge" the rein if the horse tries to hold the contact (as instructor two said give away the contact, same thing but more subtle!) and am a big believer in flexion exercises during warm up and cooling off two. However, on the whole, I2 gets my vote
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I agree with Kerilli.

From what you have said I would go with number 2. The horse should not rely on you to hold it up. If the horse is properly in self carriage and on your seat you should be able to change the pace without a contact and the horse staying round and wanting to stay round.
 
I think there is a place for 2 and 3 (helpfully!), and I can see pros and cons with both. In your place I'd have another lesson with each of them, then pick one - as someone older and wiser than me once said, have a plan and stick with it, if you don't like the results after a couple of months try something new, but until you've given something a decent, consistent try, you can't know if it works or not.
 
It's difficult to tell without having been there and seen why they were giving these instructions, of course, but to me, instructor 2 sounds like the right one. Number 3 sounds a little bit fiddly; you don't want to have to be constantly nagging and fiddling about in order to get results. Both sound like they were trying to address the leaning problem, but I like number 2's approach of giving away rein better.
 
Oh forgot to add, don't go for a combination of both as in my experiences it doesn't equate to you getting as much out of twice as many lessons with contrasting instructors as you would with half as many lessons with one instructor.
 
[ QUOTE ]
babybear, whereabouts are you?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in Scotland and OMG you have my horse's twin lol!

Thanks for the advice guys - I will have another lesson with both and see how we go - I'm all for making my horse listen to me but annoying him in order to achieve this doesn't seem right - what makes it harder is that RI 3 competes at a pretty high level and also trains a friend of mine who is also out competing and winning every week so this method is working very well for her and her horse is a similar type to mine.

I also know that sometimes you need to really exaggerate with your ask when you are schooling to elp the horse understand what you want - in fact today I used the buzzy rein technique and he needed much less of an ask in order to soften as he seemed to understand what I was looking for.
 
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