Rabbits wars! Help please!

[Evie91]

Had two baby bunnies about this time last year, both boys, both neutered as soon as I was able. They live in my stable block, three stables, and walk way. They had one fight this time last year and were neutered shortly afterwards. The plan this year was to re-do my chicken housing and also move the rabbits outside - currently on hold.
One of the stables is supposed to be their home- shelter, Also four bales made Into another shelter for them to run and hide underneath, tunnels, chew toys, willow branches, plenty of food and water. However, they choose to spend most time in my feed room, behind the hay and straw on pallets but have free access to all stables.
Rabbits were quite tame but when I had op in the winter, they were fed but for first week not by me and then I was able to do it quickly so spent little time with them, by the time I was back up to speed they were feral and I can’t catch them anymore (they were never keen on this or being stroked but would come over to eat out of my hand).
Recently had two lambs move in, so one stable has been closed to the rabbits. Yesterday found a bullfinch whose mate squashed on the road and looked in shock but no obvious injuries, so took it home and left in a box in the stable.
Stables are shut at night.
This morning up early to feed lambs and let bird out - it fluttered up to the rafters on lambs last feed, last night. Bird is dead in another area of the stables but there is carnage all around - feed room has the straw rabbits have pulled out of the bales to make a nest all over the floor, chunks of rabbits fur everywhere and blood! One rabbit has had its ear bitten right through!
Obviously will catch injured rabbit and provide first aid, but locked them in seperate stables and giving them chance to calm down first.
Question is- will they fight again? What is likely to have caused it? they have lived happily together in a big space for 12 months, they are neutered- the fight has gone on for a while as fur all over the places they have access to and seemingly lots of it- more of one rabbit than the other.
Sorry so long, but really quite worried!

 

[Widgeon]

I'm no expert, but I would suspect they will fight again - some friends took on two boy baby bunnies - brothers, so they'd grown up together - both neutered. After a year or so one killed the other. So I wouldn't risk keeping them together. I think the general advice tends to be that girl/ boy pairings are the most stable and successful.

I had two sister bunnies who got on reasonably well, but they were two years old when I got them, so I already knew they'd probably be ok together. I don't know whether that's because they were females and therefore less likely to fight, or whether they were just a bit unusual.

Personally I would allocate them a big stable, split it in two with a wire fence, and then adopt two more bunnies (females, one each) to be their friends. Can you have a Google for local rabbit rehoming places and have a chat with them? It sounds like your rabbits have a nice life and plenty of space, so if you don't mind taking on two more I'm sure a rescue would jump (no pun intended) at the chance to rehome two bunnies to you.

Regarding their feral-ness, mine were pretty feral and I got to know them by sitting on the floor with them, with snacks, and letting them approach in their own time. Obviously this is time consuming but it did work. Handling was always kept to a minimum - they were never cuddly bunnies but they would tolerate being gently cajoled / shunted into a pet carrier for vet trips. To pick them up, I had to bend down and scoop them up very fast before they realised what was happening. As soon as any chasing starts happening they just start to run away and get more and more frightened. Once scooped up they were happy enough to be held for short periods though, particularly if food bribery was offered.

Good luck!

 

[Evie91]

Thank you so much for your response. They currently have a stable each, darent put them back in together as one was definitely the victim judging by the amount of fur it lost and his injury. they were brothers, neutered and lived together for a year prior- sounds v similar to your friend. Wonder what triggers such behaviour.
One appears much more sociable now and they are no longer eating as much. I used to fill pellet bowl each evening. They now have a bowl each and has so far have not had to top up. I also see them out and about a lot more. Particularly the ‘victim’- he’s seems a lot more active and is sleeping in one of the houses he never went in previously. The other one is now in the feed room (stable)- where he used to spend most of his time. He shares his accomodation with the stable mouse- who runs out as soon as I put food and water down to help himself - v partial to sunflower seeds!
I would like to get them a companion each but don’t want to risk anymore fighting - I’d have no room for four to live in individual pens!

 

[Evie91]

Also similar Widgeon - mine are not cuddly bunnies. Vet said to keep picking them up but I haven’t as they obviously hate it!

 

[Widgeon]

Well that's good news at least, sounds like they are happier now! Glad the victim is recovering well.

With regards not wanting to get companions, firstly I think the risk of more rabbit wars would be much less if you got them a girl each...! I think male - female pairs tend to have greater odds of success. Secondly, one of my sister bunnies sadly died a year or so back. I couldn't keep the remaining one alone because they're quite like horses really - they need a friend - so I emailed all the local rabbit rescue places (RSPCA and private) and asked whether they had a similar age male bunny in. One place about 35 miles from us had two boy bunnies of the right sort of age and they offered a "bonding service" so we took our remaining rabbit to them and they tried setting her up with one of their rescue rabbits. They introduced them through a wire fence, then together with supervision, to make sure they weren't going to get back to our home and start tearing chunks out of each other. Anyway it worked great and the two of them are very happy living together in our stable out the back!

I understand why the vet would say to keep trying with picking them up, but mine are like yours - they just never took to it. Interestingly the new boy, has much more lop in him, has no problem with being handled. I've always assumed that the wilder ones are innately more wary of humans.

Good luck, they're such lovely little things but can be so stressful when things aren't quite right. I really do think they are very like horses in many ways....just tiny.

 

[Redders]

It will be possible to rebond them. This time of year all rabbits, including neutered ones, are prone to spring fever, where they act up a bit, that coupled with some changes and comings and goings to their home (they are very sensitive to that) is likely what prompted to scuffle. If you look on the RAWF website, there is some really good guidance on how to bond, but essentially you need to reduce their space, have them in a neutral area with plenty of piles of hay/toys/etc so they don’t resource guard, and watch them for negative behaviours, intervening when you need to. You do this several times until there are no negative behaviours and then put them back in their area but a smaller space to begin with (at least two of everything - hides, water and food bowls etc) and gradually increase the space. But read that website as it it really comprehensive.
please do not keep them on their own, it is cruel and against welfare guidelines (unless they are one of a few rabbits who refuse to bond and prefer humans, but this is rare), you can attempt to rebond them and all is good, or you can speak with a rescue and they will either bond your boys with a rescue bun to make a trio or quad or they will individually bond your boys with companions to make two pairs.
regarding the ear - I would advise that if it mentioned to their vet, rabbits aural blood supply is sensitive and damage can cause necrosis of the war leading to parts of it or all of it dying and falling off. In terms of them becoming tamer, rabbits will always hate to be picked up, the only time in the wild when their feet leave the ground like that is when an aerial predator snatches them; of course you need to pick them up for health care reasons, but don’t expect them to love you for it! If you can, close a stable off to two of them, and just sit in there with them for a while reading a book, giving them treats when they come near you etc, do this as a regular thing and they will come to associate you with nice things and be content to sit for a stroke and come up to you for feeding etc. This will also improve your relationship with handling them as they will grow to trust you

 

[Evie91]

Thank you. I will try the re-bonding, just worried they will try it again- one is certainly the victim. Funnily enough the victim seems more sociable now and I see him out and about more. I can open the stable and put chicken wire across so they can see each other first. both of them are much cleaner now too- only poop in one spot each, whereas before it was all over the place. Ear seems ok, but will call vet on Monday.
I will also give the rabbit welfare a call, they were very helpful before I got these two,as I’d wanted to make sure I was offering a good set up. I hate the thought of them being alone but also don’t want to make two rabbits live together if they don’t like each other.
Thanks for the advice. Much appreciated.

 

[Honey08]

If you can’t get them a friend each and a stable each, could you put a Wire fence across the stable (we use a solid well mesh type steel as a fence on our bunny run) and keep them in the same stable, but half each? So they are each other’s companion without being able to hurt each other. It would be a bit like individual turnout on a livery yard...

 

[Evie91]

I could give it a try but think if I just mesh the door they would both have more space- until I can move them outside. Seen dog kennels and runs for sale so thought that could work, if dug into the ground

 

[Redders]

I could give it a try but think if I just mesh the door they would both have more space- until I can move them outside. Seen dog kennels and runs for sale so thought that could work, if dug into the ground

there is a Facebook group called U.K. Rabbit Group that runs in accordance with the RWAF guidelines, and the members are alswsys happy to give advice on housing tricks and tips and where to buy the best materials etc, often people put a post up asking ‘Let me see your outdoor set ups’ and get loads of responses. Worth joining for some ideas and things.
The victim may seem more social now, it could be because he is, or it could be because he is currently alone he is seeking more attention. Did you Ever see them grooming each other and laying with each other before their set to?

 

[Evie91]

Never once saw them groom each other or lie down together apart from when they were very small BUT they lived in a whole stable block so can’t say that they never did. They would often be at opposite ends. They did always eat together, they’d run over when I put fresh veg and fruit and eat at the same time. They eat out of my hands but don’t want to be stroked.They never seemed to squabble I’d always put two bits of everything.
i’ll take a look at the group. thank you for the suggestion. I really can’t decide whether they like each other or not really and instead always just tolerated each other.

 

[Redders]

My two sibling girls had a squbible about 2 years ago now I think, following a stay at the vets. I had to rebond them, but the bun who was previously the top bun is now the second in command, so they completely switched their hierarchy. Sometimes the top bun chases the other off of food when it’s first out down, so I always do two piles and give top bun hers slightly before the other one. I was worried that Vera would be unhappy with the new status quo but there are always grooming each other and laying with each other and They didn’t like being separated Until I rebonded them - they would lay together between the bars and things and missed each other. Mine have the upstairs of the house and sleep under my bed so I see a lot of their behaviours. The only way you will know if they will be happy together again is to try to rebond, give it a good go. If they don’t like each other, they won’t bond again - rabbits are very selective over their friends!

 

[Evie91]

Will make A mesh door tomorrow- they’ve had just over a week to get over it, so will see how it goes.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Be careful of abscesses rabbits are very prone to them from the smallest of nips. Had to burst some lovely golfball sized ones back in the day of rabbit care

Time of year will make them more prone to fighting. Female companionship would be better but splitting the stable down the middle with wire would give you a better chance of reintroduction

 

[Redders]

Best of luck. Don’t dispair! All is not lost rabbits just like to keep us on our toes!

 

[ChiffChaff]

I could have written this! We have two brothers and got them as babies and couldn’t re-bond them after they were neutered. We had to send them away to a professional bonding lady who bonded them for us.

Since them they have had squabbles an we’ve had to re-bond. Sometimes quite severe ones, eg when one had to spend overnight at the vet. Our strategy is always to get the puppy pen out (a folding metal fence - the best bit of bunny kit we have!). Put them in a small space with minimal enrichment. Just hay and their litter tray. Then watch...if they start chasing/tails go up etc then the dustpan goes between them. And we basically watch until they have ‘kissed and made up’ and we’ve seen them groom each other. It usually takes a couple of hours, but I don’t leave them alone together until I’ve seen those kisses (grooming eachother). Good luck!

 

[ChiffChaff]

Mostly they love each other! Ours our Netherland dwarves with a wild grandparent (we think) so they’re fiesty!! They hate being picked up but like being stroked. And they’re always first to investigate new things!!

 

[Evie91]

Ah so beautiful! One of mine is a similar colour and the other ginger and white. It’s the ginger and white who came off worse, the one that looks like a wild rabbit is fine - but he is the one who seems a bit sad in isolation, whereas the other is bouncing around, doing little flips etc. Will try re-bonding - also need to look at the fb group suggested further up the thread. Mine have never groomed each other or slept next to each other - as far as I can see. Usually when I bought veggies they would come from seperate ends of the stable block, but choosing to have some space from your buddy to being forced into it, is very different. I will try with the mesh door today. The scene was horrific, blood splatter, fur all over the stable block - all ginger and white - Still finding bits of fur now and the mess. It was obviously a prolonged fight as went through each stable and down the walk way!Think I’m more traumatised than them!

 

[Evie91]

They are also much cleaner apart - in that they have both have specific spots to toilet over the last week. whereas before it would be literally everywhere. Does that mean anything?!

 

[Redders]

It could mean something or nothing. Rabbits find toilet training harder in larger spaces, so it could be because they have a reduced space now they are choosing to do in one spot to keep the rest of their house clean. It could be they were being territorial before by pooping everywhere, but I would be inclined to think it’s the smaller space. You could try big under bed storage boxes as litter trays - put some of their poo in them and they usually get the hint, make sure you have two trays plus one for each rabbit, and put hay in them - they basically poop while they eat