Dab
Well-Known Member
*pulls over the foot stool*
Wine and nibbles anyone
Wine and nibbles anyone
Racehorse deaths
- Thread starter Paint Me Proud
- Start date
hcm88
Well-Known Member
Ignorant people on that FB page using incorrect facts and copyrighted photos. It really angers me because although yes it is awful that horses die the facts are being wrongly distributed and are subsequently warping so many people's opinions. The media hype is so difficult as it brings all the negatives to light - not once does it show how the horses are treated like gods at home etc but instead focuses on the deaths etc, which then is read by the public and somewhat incorrect opinions are formed. The Wishfull Thinking photos linked to Abergavenny's death are obviously taken from the Sky News website - proving that people have literally just picked out info from the media without even bothering to read into it.
Nobody in racing denies the fact that a death of a horse is terrible, the horses are treated better than thousands of horses owned privately throughout the world. Yet of course this is not highlighted. Horses die from breaking legs in a field every day, we cannot make this sport 100% safe and it's a very naive opinion to think that cancelling the grand national will have a positive effect at all on the welfare of horses.
Nobody in racing denies the fact that a death of a horse is terrible, the horses are treated better than thousands of horses owned privately throughout the world. Yet of course this is not highlighted. Horses die from breaking legs in a field every day, we cannot make this sport 100% safe and it's a very naive opinion to think that cancelling the grand national will have a positive effect at all on the welfare of horses.
Abz88
Well-Known Member
No, I didnt say no-one cares for the horses. And of course the top and racing horses are well looked after,...as in they are fed and exercised,...that most are shut in stables to avoid field injuries and left for hours I guess means nothing. But, anyway, my main concern is the less well know racers, the smaller racers. The big, well know racers ARE cared for when injured as they are worth the money. It is a business, end of. And is harsh. If a horse only makes minor races, and hurts itself,...goodbye horse. Not worth financially making it better. Ethically and morally totoally wrong. The big races MUST show empathy and care,...smaller races dont,....and so, do not treat horses well. I have worked with many many ex and failed racers,...ALL have been ill treated because they are 'uselss' in the business of horse racing. One, was starved as she didnt race and win to 'deserve' her feed and wasnt worth the outlay of paying for feed when she wasnt making money on winning races. THIS is the back of racing I hate. The high profile stuff is usually better.
Fantasy_World
Well-Known Member
Always the same every time Aintree and the Grand National is run. Not saying this post is because of that but I have been reading similar points at this time. No one defends racing or is committed to the sport as much as me. Yes it is sad that horses get killed in racing, but accidents are bound to happen when you have a group of animals coming together on a strip of turf. Horses die every day, not just in racing. Accidents happen in the field/stable. Horses sometimes just have heart attacks at home. Some horses die due to starvation, neglect and abuse. Most horses in racing are looked after supremely well both on and off the track. Sure there are bad pennies in racing just like there is in other equine sports and equally you get poorly run livery yards.
I am sure that the racing debate will continue tomorrow as no doubt some horse will get injured at Aintree tomorrow. When you have horses running at premier meetings and in some races large fields then the risk factor for accidents increases. Sadly it comes with the territory. I don't like seeing horses getting killed or having serious accidents but we are talking about animals, large animals and to be honest there is often as much of a chance of them suffering an accident at home in the field or out riding than there is in racing.
These animals are bred to race it is their job.
I am sure that the racing debate will continue tomorrow as no doubt some horse will get injured at Aintree tomorrow. When you have horses running at premier meetings and in some races large fields then the risk factor for accidents increases. Sadly it comes with the territory. I don't like seeing horses getting killed or having serious accidents but we are talking about animals, large animals and to be honest there is often as much of a chance of them suffering an accident at home in the field or out riding than there is in racing.
These animals are bred to race it is their job.
Abz88
Well-Known Member
Hummm my point was taken out of context here. All sport has danger and chance of harm, be it dog racing, horse racing, dressage you will always get the badly treated animals used purley for gain for the greedy human. This is LIFE. This is not be being silly of daft. Its a business, and businesses want to make money and as fast as they can,...something stops them or means spending money on, which may not see a return, is got rid of. It doesnt matter to these people that it is a life. Lots of horses are taken care of and are treated very well. My point is, a lot are not. And this is through experience.
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
I noticed on yesterdays coverage of Aintree Claire Balding was at pains to point out how owners are devastated by their horses death on the racecourse. I think its sad that racing has constantly to cover their backs knowing the likes of Animal Aid will twist everything around to put racing in a poor light. I too was surprised that the op posted given we are on the evening of the GN, but I think the prize for the poster who posted the biggest crock of s***e goes to Abz88.
Fantasy_World
Well-Known Member
You didn't see today's then lol it was all about the vetting procedures of horses that are due to run in the National. It is as though the BBC was pandering to animal rights folk.
Funny that you don't see this happen at HOYS, Hickstead and so on though isn't it?
Horses get injured and die during other equine sports, it is just that people don't see it, or choose not to so that they can focus their attention on horse racing instead!
Abz88
Well-Known Member
Read and understood and taken on board. I agree, it is 'part' of racing, doesnt mean people enjoy horses suffering, but I don't understand why it is accepted. Yes, horses get injured in fields, in stables, out riding and in the wild. But, racing increases this risk. And, I hate to put a human trait on an animal, but as you stated 'it is their job'....well,....it is the job humans chose. It's like a human choosing a black person to be a slave in the past,...being a slave was their job....I agree the horses seem to enjoy the racing and the high profile horses ARE looked after well,...but, to justify it by saying it is their job,...so their job to possibly die every time they race simply because a rich human wants to become richer seems a very odd thing to say.
Dab
Well-Known Member
Have you considered that this kind of thing doesn't just happen because 'its a business'?
How many of us know or have heard of an individual 'hobby owner' who has discarded a horse because it was not fit for their purpose, or was PTS because they could not afford to keep it, or retire it, or pay for the vets bills....the list goes on...certainly not just confined to racing or 'businesses'.
Echo Bravo
Well-Known Member
ABZ88, If you have postive proof of racehorses being abused in the way you say they are, you should be putting the facts in front of 1) the BHA and 2) the POLICE and WHW and The Racehorse ASSC.
Abz88
Well-Known Member
Excuse me for using my human right to voice my OPINION on a given subject. That is my opinion. You have yours. I have NOT said to anyone their opinion is wrong, but voiced mine. So to say mine is a crock of ***** shows you ignorance and arrognace towards other peoples views. Well done.
be positive
Well-Known Member
The implication in your first post was that the majority of racehorses that do not win or are injured will be starved or shot, I used easy examples as they were the first to come to mind and they are true examples, yes they are top horses.
There are bad cases of cruelty and neglect in all spheres of horse sport and even more totally hidden from view, we have all experienced this to some extent. Racing is generally more transparent than most, yes horses live in stables, not just to prevent injury, most NH horses will spend the summer at grass and sometimes get injured then.
To blame the whole of racing for the actions of a few individuals that you have had dealings with is like saying all dealers are like Jamie Grey, there are always going to be people involved for the wrong reasons, its a shame that some horses suffer, although being shot due to injury is not the worst outcome for many of these horses.
There are bad cases of cruelty and neglect in all spheres of horse sport and even more totally hidden from view, we have all experienced this to some extent. Racing is generally more transparent than most, yes horses live in stables, not just to prevent injury, most NH horses will spend the summer at grass and sometimes get injured then.
To blame the whole of racing for the actions of a few individuals that you have had dealings with is like saying all dealers are like Jamie Grey, there are always going to be people involved for the wrong reasons, its a shame that some horses suffer, although being shot due to injury is not the worst outcome for many of these horses.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
I worked in racing for many years and saw good and bad. Mostly good I will admit but 1 poor horse who sticks in my head was a tiny chestnut mare, getting fatter by the day and yes they downed her food and put her work levels up but she couldn't cope. She was classed as a piss taker not trying! The final straw came when she went up the gallop with the harsh jockey on board and told to get behind her, it was so wrong and this mare was putting weight on still. She went down on the gallop that day and the vet confirmed she was in foal! They were going to shoot her so the stable girl who looked after her took her and she had a stunning colt foal, wasn't tb though! That's anybody guess but she went on to enjoy life with me as I brought her when her foal was weaned but sadly after a few years broke her leg in the field playing. You do get bad stories but most are good
Abz88
Well-Known Member
Agreed. It is not all race owners which are this issue and I am fully aware of other cruelty. I know this will open a can of worms, but I hate watching the high class dressage and shows jumping and x-country. In almost all the pictures you see you see the whites of the horses eyes, the sticks being used, the madness of the yanking of the poor horses mouths and yes, the falls and deaths. I know there are very bad owners out there, I do not condone this, nor ignore it. But people who are meant to be caring and love the horses seem to love the 'sport' and 'money' more. How they get there doesnt matter.
Don't get me wrong, I am not one of these silly types of horse owner, a horse is a horse, and you need to understand how it thinks and behaves to ride and get the best out of it. Mine is not one to be rugged all year round,...cuddled, spotless etc. But I would never use her for financial gain especially if there was a risk to her. I see it as unfair and not needed. I can make my money from other sources which causes no possible suffering.
My opinion and my belief is that racing on the surface, is lovely, behind, it is not. I have had ex-racers come to me have been beaten, starved and very badly treated. So seeing that, I do not like or support racing. May be because of these experiences my view is jolted, but it is my view. I haven't been personal to anyone on here, just shown my concern and my opinion, which, thankfully, in this country, I am entitled to, as is anyone who loves their racing no matter what.
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Taffyhorse
Well-Known Member
As another poster said, the BBC were certainly at pains to stress that welfare of the horses is paramount. I enjoyed the bits about the veterinary care/washdown areas/how jockey's react to horses breaking down features as its now demonstrably transparent and obvious that people - owners, trainers, jockey's, grooms and all connected to the horses DO care.
Yes, its a high risk sport - but so is hacking out these days! The important thing is that they are taking as many measures as possible to mitigate that risk. I do like the idea of the vettings prior to the GN and personally I would like to see vet checks on all horses prior to racing much as they do in eventing although I'm not sure how practical this would be.
And on another note, here's hoping for a brilliant GN tomorrow and I hope they all come back safe and sound.
Yes, its a high risk sport - but so is hacking out these days! The important thing is that they are taking as many measures as possible to mitigate that risk. I do like the idea of the vettings prior to the GN and personally I would like to see vet checks on all horses prior to racing much as they do in eventing although I'm not sure how practical this would be.
And on another note, here's hoping for a brilliant GN tomorrow and I hope they all come back safe and sound.
Fantasy_World
Well-Known Member
Lol you don't know much about racing and owners then do you. MOST racehorse owners are not rich. Many own legs/ears/manes/tails in a horse by way of partnerships, racing clubs and syndicates. Only the lords and ladies and multi millionaire business men and women are what I would consider to be rich owners.
If you knew how much it was to keep a horse in training even at the smaller yards you would fall from your stool.
Yes racehorses are bred to be just that. In the same way we breed horses to ride, or showjump, do dressage, polo and so on.
Horses are bred for all sorts of reasons including for the meat industry.
So I don't find it an odd thing to say, sorry.
To try and compare racing horses to slavery of black people is both far fetched and laughable. Slavery was introduced and I stand to be corrected due to the perception of black people by white people and how the race was vastly inferior to them. They were 'beneath' white folk, hence slavery.
Racehorses are not perceived as being 'beneath' humans in the industry. Many are put on pedestals to be remembered forever, think statues of Red Rum, Desert Orchid, Arkle and so on. Racing folk wanted this. They are loved and adored by trainers, owners, jockeys and the grooms that look after them. The black slaves were not afforded the same compassion, high regard, love and care by white people.
Personally I don't think any racing fan enjoys seeing a horse get killed whilst racing, they do have hearts. It is accepted because with any sport or pastime involving animals there is always going to be a risk of death and accident. Animals do not have the same logic and understanding as humans therefore in a situation where there is a risk factor they not make the logical choice to get out of harms way. Example being horses that get brought down at fences or even on the flat. A human may consider that a horse may suddenly run across them and take action but a horse may not until the last minute when the other horse is upon them. True humans are in the driving seat but under stress and having to think quickly on their feet can lead to errors and a loss of logic.
With relation to the arguement that it is a horse's job to possibly die every time they race is the same as saying it is quite possible that you or I could die tomorrow when we get into a car, a bus, cross the road or walk down a flight of stairs. All these activities carry risks and when it comes to roads and accidents I would say it is possibly an equal risk of being involved in a vehicular accident as it is for a horse to get injured or die during a race, given today's roads and volume of traffic.
rhino
Well-Known Member
Dearie me!
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
Well can someone clear something up for me....
An opinion is very different accusing someone of being cruel or expoliting a horse.
'Losing racehorses are starved to death'- Not an opinion, an accusation.
' I don't watch horse racing as I don't like when they fall and hurt themselves'- thats an opinion.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion in my eyes, though making false accusations is completely different.
Secondly- Horses for finiacial gain? Name me a horse that hasn't been used to make money. Did you breed your own horse with your own stallion, and you don't own a stud? Dealers buy and sell horses, eventers and show jumpers make a living out of horses, riding schools do, even private sellers do. If you have bought a horse a project and sold it on, you are making a finacial gain out of a horse. Like it or not, you have no control over the horse you sold, so it could be said you have comprised its welfare.
An opinion is very different accusing someone of being cruel or expoliting a horse.
'Losing racehorses are starved to death'- Not an opinion, an accusation.
' I don't watch horse racing as I don't like when they fall and hurt themselves'- thats an opinion.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion in my eyes, though making false accusations is completely different.
Secondly- Horses for finiacial gain? Name me a horse that hasn't been used to make money. Did you breed your own horse with your own stallion, and you don't own a stud? Dealers buy and sell horses, eventers and show jumpers make a living out of horses, riding schools do, even private sellers do. If you have bought a horse a project and sold it on, you are making a finacial gain out of a horse. Like it or not, you have no control over the horse you sold, so it could be said you have comprised its welfare.
Abz88
Well-Known Member
Right, it seems no-one is actually listening to what I am trying to say. I am trying to understand the views of people who love their racing (and fair on them, they are more than welcome to enjoy it). I see I am getting through to non of the thick headed and closed minded people in here to see racing from another point of view. I can see how people love racing, amazing horses, they are incredible animals, amazing talet. That aside, I have seen the other things, as mentioned and have first hand experiences of them, so my personal view is, I do not agree with it. Simple. You have your views, I have mine. I hope the GN goes well tomorrow and everyone, horses and jocky's come back safe and un-injured. End of (for me).
dominobrown
Well-Known Member
rhino
Well-Known Member
Dab
Well-Known Member
My point with all of these types of discussion is that if you do not agree with racing on the grounds of cruelty, then how can you agree to any type of horse ownership or riding, because where ever you look in the equine industry there is cruelty occuring on a very regular basis, be it overfeeding, under feeding, horses being discarded, abandoned, pasted from pillar to post, mis-disagnosed, ill fitting tack....[add your own pet hates here...]
If you do not like racing for another reason then please explain.
Littlelegs
Well-Known Member
Abz88- I'd love some of whatever you're on.
Marydoll
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abz88
I hate watching the high class dressage and shows jumping and x-country. In almost all the pictures you see you see the whites of the horses eyes, the sticks being used, the madness of the yanking of the poor horses mouths and yes, the falls and deaths.
Bullshit alert !!!!!!!
Originally Posted by Abz88
I hate watching the high class dressage and shows jumping and x-country. In almost all the pictures you see you see the whites of the horses eyes, the sticks being used, the madness of the yanking of the poor horses mouths and yes, the falls and deaths.
Bullshit alert !!!!!!!
Dobiegirl
Well-Known Member
lannerch
Well-Known Member
Abz88 what a load of tosh you write.
Have you ever tried to force a horse to do anything if you have chances are you failed!
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!
Have you ever tried to force a horse to do anything if you have chances are you failed!
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!
amage
Well-Known Member
Sure you keep back peddling and waffling so you're not going to get through to anyone. As for the good horses like Master Minded being saved because of what he is worth well that is complete bull. As soon is that injury occurred he is financially worth nothing bar what you might get from meat man (note I said financially worth nothing as opposed to worthless...two very different phrases). They saved him because they could.... He will be an exceptionally handsome field ornament who may come right to do a new career or he may eat grass for the rest of his days. Monet's Garden is another example. They were saved because they could be...not because of their financial worth! As for the stuff about no turnout...have you any idea the vast number of horses actually trained from the field. Those that are stabled by the time they have morning walker, ridden work, occasional schooling, grazing or hand grazing (hours of it in some yard!) afternoon walker they are out of their boxes far far more than the average stabled horse. Individual turnout is rare over here, they get buddies and go out together. Yes there are bad eggs in racing, by god I know we've had two horses to rehab that their previous trainers should be ashamed of the way they were let get. It is a hard game and I take great offence to being tarred with the same bad name an ignorant few bring to the sport. I also show jump and love the sport but to be honest see far worse incidents of mistreatment and bad management at shows than I do at the races...but I also appreciate that those incidents should not be a stick with which to beat the entire show jumping fraternity with.
ex racer rider
Well-Known Member
Abz88 have you any real knowledge of the racing industry as frankly thats *******s.
Tormenta
Well-Known Member
Quite! I have a horse who shows me the whites of his eyes on a daily basis. Do some research you fool!
LadyRascasse
Well-Known Member
erm the photo of abergravenny "falling" is Wishful Thinking who ran yesterday?!?
and the colours aren't even right, this is abergavenny's colours http://www.racingpost.com/horses/ow...er_stats_summary&bottomOwnerTabs=owner_horses
and the colours aren't even right, this is abergavenny's colours http://www.racingpost.com/horses/ow...er_stats_summary&bottomOwnerTabs=owner_horses
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