Racehorse slaughter
- Thread starter Regandal
- Start date
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
Seen similar before. Won't watch and will give my boy a bigger hug than usual tonight. I think he's definitely one of the lucky ones, pulled out by an insider once he'd done is best for his syndicate.
There are a lot worse things that can happen to them than regulated PTS. Fingers crossed that's all it covers...
There are a lot worse things that can happen to them than regulated PTS. Fingers crossed that's all it covers...
TheMule
Well-Known Member
The danger with programs like this is that it drives more horses over to the continent alive where welfare standards are considerably lower than they are here. Hours and hours of cramped travel for a worse fate.
I have spent a significant amount of time at the abattoir reported on here and have never witnessed anything I would be uncomfortable with.
I have spent a significant amount of time at the abattoir reported on here and have never witnessed anything I would be uncomfortable with.
Quigleyandme
Well-Known Member
I read about the Panorama documentary being aired tonight on the BBC online news this morning. It states the UK abattoir had on occasion breached welfare guidelines by shooting from a distance and in sight of other equines. The abattoir stated it deals appropriately with infractions (paraphrased). The BBC also reported horses are shipped from Ireland to the UK specifically for slaughter. I don’t understand the economics of that even before Brexit. Whatever, it is another nail in the coffin for racing.
TheMule
Well-Known Member
They get lots of unhandled moorland ponies in. If you get 2 pair bonded wild ones then in together and from a distance makes sense to me. FWIW I've never seen that happen.
The guy that shoots them is exceptional at his job IMO- he is so calm with the horses, he gives them time and is an expert shot.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
These weren’t moreland ponies though so it doesn’t make sense. I read about the programme but not watched it. I think if there were clear breaches of welfare rules they should be dealt with harshly. The report stated that one horse shot from a distance wasn’t killed and that’s awful
From what i’ve read there is video evidence so it’s not just hearsay that things weren’t done properly and kindly.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
there are so many issues with racing that I hope to see the end of it in my lifetime, or a changed system based around horse welfare.
It's not right to keep breeding animals knowing that there will be such a high wastage rate and so many get PTS at a young age.
It's so wrong to bulk them up for yearling sales and have them in heavy work before they are physically ready, leaving rehomers coping with horses with huge physical issues. I love exracers, I've taken on loads, I wouldn't any more as they are 99% of the time money pits that require back injections, ulcer treatments etc and are very high maintenance. I know someone will jump on and say they've had one thats never been sick a day, and lives off air but after 20 years doing it, I've never met an exracer like that. so poor kindhearted people are paying from their own pockets for issues caused by harsh training regimes too young.
I think the excuses racing give are getting thinner and thinner. 'But the trainers love the horses' was the main one, and then the Gordon Elliott pic came out. I know 'the grooms are excellent', but surely someone being paid to care for animals should be doing what they do anyway? I think it's horrendous now to see people cheering on horses running around a track knowing most will be send to slaughter if they don't win.
It's not right to keep breeding animals knowing that there will be such a high wastage rate and so many get PTS at a young age.
It's so wrong to bulk them up for yearling sales and have them in heavy work before they are physically ready, leaving rehomers coping with horses with huge physical issues. I love exracers, I've taken on loads, I wouldn't any more as they are 99% of the time money pits that require back injections, ulcer treatments etc and are very high maintenance. I know someone will jump on and say they've had one thats never been sick a day, and lives off air but after 20 years doing it, I've never met an exracer like that. so poor kindhearted people are paying from their own pockets for issues caused by harsh training regimes too young.
I think the excuses racing give are getting thinner and thinner. 'But the trainers love the horses' was the main one, and then the Gordon Elliott pic came out. I know 'the grooms are excellent', but surely someone being paid to care for animals should be doing what they do anyway? I think it's horrendous now to see people cheering on horses running around a track knowing most will be send to slaughter if they don't win.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Obviously not seen the programme but the write up of it says the abattoir is repeatedly filmed breaching welfare guidelines such as shooting ex race horses from a distance and not killing them cleanly. And shooting them in clear sight of each other causing evident distress. I am not vegetarian and I don’t want to see the end of racing. But humans seem to never fail in our ability to be complacent, exploitive and cruel. Total disregard for welfare standards behind closed doors and Indifference to suffering would not surprise me in the least.
My friend recently got caught up in a abattoir scam where injured horses due to be slaughtered were instead sold as riding horses. She ended up buying a dangerous horse who should have been put down. Whose old owner thought HAD been put down. She was later told that you should always ask for a date stamped photo of the body. Slight aside but the horse world in general is so often depressing.
My friend recently got caught up in a abattoir scam where injured horses due to be slaughtered were instead sold as riding horses. She ended up buying a dangerous horse who should have been put down. Whose old owner thought HAD been put down. She was later told that you should always ask for a date stamped photo of the body. Slight aside but the horse world in general is so often depressing.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Oh, it's that one, is it? The footage to be shown tonight was captured by covert cctv.
As I posted on the other thread (and I'm strongly in favour of well run, well regulated slaughterhouses).
The regulations say horses should not be killed in sight of each other.
The footage recorded horses being shot together 26 times over the four days of filming.
On 91 occasions the cameras recorded a slaughterman shooting horses, not close up, but from a distance.
rascal
Well-Known Member
Shooting them within sight of each other is so wrong, and as for travelling long distances when they are hopping lame is disgusting, the numbers being bred needs to be reduced, never been a racing fan, although my brother in law had two, does not even know where they ended up.
Boy Tom
Well-Known Member
A part of a letter of value.
Oliver MC Sherwood
July 19 at 9:18 PM ·
It’s very disappointing that Panorama felt the need to show such a misleading, gut wrenching episode tonight blaming horse racing for the horrific deaths of those poor animals at an abattoir, many of which were clearly not thoroughbreds.
It was an episode designed to shock and it had very little evidence to back up their sensationalist claims.
This was gutter journalism and not at all a true representation of what goes on in the majority of racing yards up and down the country.
Sadly it’s not untypical of the way that (BBC) organisation has gone in recent times and let’s not forget it was Panorama that faked documents in order to get the now discredited Diana interview with Martin Bashir.
In these very transparent days of social media you (the public) are able to see what goes on behind the scenes in our workplace and you also know from reading my (and other trainers) web sites that we try our best to rehome horses after their racing life.
It’s not always possible, you may recall I recently asked an owner to remove his two horses that I felt were not enjoying their racing anymore when he refused to let me retire them.
Racing isn’t perfect and I do think that we probably didn’t do enough years ago to ensure ex racehorses had another life to move on to, that has changed for the better with the emergence of ROR shows and the many yards that now specialise in re training racehorses.
Racing will continue to listen and to learn but we need your support now more than ever in order to halt the amount of misinformation that is peddled by organisations that don’t want horses to do anything competitive.
The Disney culture is unrealistic and many of these people have a misguided idea that a horse bred to compete would prefer to spend its days turned out in a field …bored senseless and up to their knees in mud.
Below are a selection of horses we have rehomed in their new life, please feel free to add your own pictures
————
Horses and sadly, very rarely lay down on the ground and die in their sleep ~ it simply doesn't happen. We need a disposal system which is ethical and humane ~ we need a disposal system which we currently don't appear to have. There was much in the film which was skewed and to the point of being gutter journalism ~ and there was also much which was truly shocking.
There are now campaigns being launched to have Drury's abattoir closed down and that will achieve nothing. There were State paid vets on hand who were well aware of what was going on and they stood by and did nothing. Closing down our equine abattoirs is NOT the answer ~ the answer is that we have monitored CCTV in place and in every UK abattoir and ANY abuse of horses should result in prosecution. We need a system which is fit for purpose, we need to do-different.
Oliver MC Sherwood
July 19 at 9:18 PM ·
It’s very disappointing that Panorama felt the need to show such a misleading, gut wrenching episode tonight blaming horse racing for the horrific deaths of those poor animals at an abattoir, many of which were clearly not thoroughbreds.
It was an episode designed to shock and it had very little evidence to back up their sensationalist claims.
This was gutter journalism and not at all a true representation of what goes on in the majority of racing yards up and down the country.
Sadly it’s not untypical of the way that (BBC) organisation has gone in recent times and let’s not forget it was Panorama that faked documents in order to get the now discredited Diana interview with Martin Bashir.
In these very transparent days of social media you (the public) are able to see what goes on behind the scenes in our workplace and you also know from reading my (and other trainers) web sites that we try our best to rehome horses after their racing life.
It’s not always possible, you may recall I recently asked an owner to remove his two horses that I felt were not enjoying their racing anymore when he refused to let me retire them.
Racing isn’t perfect and I do think that we probably didn’t do enough years ago to ensure ex racehorses had another life to move on to, that has changed for the better with the emergence of ROR shows and the many yards that now specialise in re training racehorses.
Racing will continue to listen and to learn but we need your support now more than ever in order to halt the amount of misinformation that is peddled by organisations that don’t want horses to do anything competitive.
The Disney culture is unrealistic and many of these people have a misguided idea that a horse bred to compete would prefer to spend its days turned out in a field …bored senseless and up to their knees in mud.
Below are a selection of horses we have rehomed in their new life, please feel free to add your own pictures
————
Horses and sadly, very rarely lay down on the ground and die in their sleep ~ it simply doesn't happen. We need a disposal system which is ethical and humane ~ we need a disposal system which we currently don't appear to have. There was much in the film which was skewed and to the point of being gutter journalism ~ and there was also much which was truly shocking.
There are now campaigns being launched to have Drury's abattoir closed down and that will achieve nothing. There were State paid vets on hand who were well aware of what was going on and they stood by and did nothing. Closing down our equine abattoirs is NOT the answer ~ the answer is that we have monitored CCTV in place and in every UK abattoir and ANY abuse of horses should result in prosecution. We need a system which is fit for purpose, we need to do-different.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Once again this is just racing doing 'whataboutery' to slide out of their problems and obligations. There are thousands of horses wasted each year in the racing industry. Why don't they want to do anything about it? They have the money and they tell us that they care, so put your money where your mouth is.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
There's a long thread about this somewhere else that's gone to several pages of discussion
.
.
tristar
Well-Known Member
all this fuels the idea that horses should not be ridden, if that progresses we know where it started, racing, dressage, eventing, roadside breeders.
if it was a third world country doing this there would be outrage, and the breeding systems, feeding regimes, and training programs produced so many, injured, broken and traumatised creatures in any other world it would called cruelty
urban sea mare, of the century, died a few minutes after foaling aged 20, surely a mare like that who had given so much could have been retired a bit younger, instead of going on and on , just greed really
if it was a third world country doing this there would be outrage, and the breeding systems, feeding regimes, and training programs produced so many, injured, broken and traumatised creatures in any other world it would called cruelty
urban sea mare, of the century, died a few minutes after foaling aged 20, surely a mare like that who had given so much could have been retired a bit younger, instead of going on and on , just greed really
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Disingenuous post quoted from Oliver Sherwood above.
Instead of BBC bashing and lauding the way his yard manages their post retirement rehomings, creditable though it is, he should have acknowledged that there still are far too many poor practices in racing.
Instead let’s just all pretend that it is all hunky dory.
Instead of BBC bashing and lauding the way his yard manages their post retirement rehomings, creditable though it is, he should have acknowledged that there still are far too many poor practices in racing.
Instead let’s just all pretend that it is all hunky dory.
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
Thank you for posting this. It's patently clear that this hastily cobbled together piece of reporting didn't show the dark side of slaughterhouses or even the dark side of racing but more worryingly may have shown the dark side of the government.
The BBC has long been held to ransom over the licence fee and is now struggling for its independence but is it allowing itself to become state controlled for survival?
The government has a new Action Plan for Animal Welfare. All well and good you may say but to quote The Rt Hon Nick Herbert : "We need to consider a number of questions as we examine the bill. The first is to distinguish clearly between animal rights and animal welfare".
And we all know of at least one AR campaigner who has the PM's ear.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
You may have thought it was bad journalism but the videos weren't made up. Are you okay with the poor treatment you saw regardless of the reporter?
Fellewell
Well-Known Member
It's an abattoir, it's going to be stressful and it's going to shock the uninitiated, that's the point of the film.
Free bullet at point blank range with a .22 long rifle is accepted practice as is a 2m distance where safety is a factor.
This particular group have long been associated with covert activity and we only have their assertions regarding provenance, time frames etc. I am not prepared to take everything they allege as fact and would prefer to wait for the outcome of any enquiry.
paddi22
Well-Known Member
so you think the video scenes were ok? and just within normal abattoir practice?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
This has to win this year's trophy for whataboutery.
It's the government's fault that racing overbreeds thousands of TBs and kills thousands of healthy animals when they are no longer of any use to it? Yeah, right.
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shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I thought they were all telling us how nicely animals were slaughtered, how it was humane. There was nothing I saw that was humane.
And no I don't eat meat.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
Err, no.
You will doubtless carry on talking down to us on here, but this is not a fluffy bunny forum. I have known of many people taking their own and other people's horses to well run, humane abattoirs back in the day when there were such things. The horses were despatched quickly and with no stress - with the owner or an agent in attendance at the point of death.
You are trying to deflect from the bad publicity about the dark side of racing. You are failing.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
It’s been pretty well documented that I am no fan of this government, to put it very mildly, but as an argument to defend what was on that programme, it’s ludicrous. If anything, given the disgraced Matt Hancock’s close links to Newmarket, bad press for racing doesn’t do them any favours. I’ve never been a racing fan but I’ve had my eyes opened even more to the depressing reality of what happens to huge numbers of racehorses when they are no longer useful, and it’s horrendous avoidable waste of good animals, with no one to blame but the industry that produced them, broke them and discarded them.
luckyoldme
Well-Known Member
I watched it and wondered what the reaction would be.i thought most people would be able to work it out for themselves.
Horses live 20 + years.
Theres an endless supply of young horses which disappear from the race tracks.
I thought it was an accepted fact that they were slaughtered.
I had the tiniest tiniest association with the racing world and realised what it was.
I felt I wasn't tough enough and had nothing more to do with it.
I saw the brood mares when they came to us. Some of them were so obviously well cared for and in amazing condition ..they were definitely the minority .
The rest of them were wombs. The worst one had a large sore in her leg which we worked hard to clear up. It was worse than it was originally the next year.
I spoke to grooms who came off race yards. Broken hearted at loading 'their' horses knowing they were going for slaughter.
I vowed to have nothing to do with horses till I could afford my own and I waited till I was 40.
He lived a long life and I was there at the end of it.
This won't make any difference to horseracing.
The inquiry will put some rules in place everyone will forget about it and horses will still be just a piece of meat to a large amount of people in the industry.
All without any one person admitting publicly that they are cool with sending their horses off to slaughter because it's not sustainable if they all have to be rehomed.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I didnt watch this, Ive read several things about it to understand the basis but I cannot bring myself to actually see it. I doubt anything will be done, no matter how shocking it is. Very sad IMO. People just forget and move on, a farmer local to me had video footage leaked of his workers doing horrid things to piglets and pigs but turns out it was all unbelievably allowed within the law so although he got all his pigs taken off him at the time, he's now back to it again. Utterly depressing and sickening what happens to animals.
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
The biggest problem with the racing industry as a whole is that it is all about the money - it is BIG money. The welfare of the horses used and the long-term view of where those horses will go once their 'careers' are over is of little consequence to most people within that industry.
A couple of years ago I went on a hack with someone who worked on a racing yard, she was mouthing off to me about protesters after the death of a horse at Cheltenham (said horse came from the yard she worked at). She was angry that people were upset that a horse died. This was someone who was meant to be a horse lover. I responded that I lost a relative to gambling and I would never view a horse as disposable.
For all the talk of race horses being treated like kings, this person didn't seem to care at all that a horse she knew died, she was however seething over the public's reaction to the horse meeting a gruesome end on the tracks.
To summarise my feelings, if horses are treated like commodities in the racing industry, is it a surprise that most of them are sent to slaughter? It's a huge waste of life, we don't deserve horses.
A couple of years ago I went on a hack with someone who worked on a racing yard, she was mouthing off to me about protesters after the death of a horse at Cheltenham (said horse came from the yard she worked at). She was angry that people were upset that a horse died. This was someone who was meant to be a horse lover. I responded that I lost a relative to gambling and I would never view a horse as disposable.
For all the talk of race horses being treated like kings, this person didn't seem to care at all that a horse she knew died, she was however seething over the public's reaction to the horse meeting a gruesome end on the tracks.
To summarise my feelings, if horses are treated like commodities in the racing industry, is it a surprise that most of them are sent to slaughter? It's a huge waste of life, we don't deserve horses.
Elf On A Shelf
...
Most are NOT sent to slaughter. Certainly not in Britain anyway. Of The 4,000 that that program claimed to have been sent to slaughter less than 500 were actually trained in Britain. The rest were Irish where they have a very different view of racehorses and their purpose in life.
You clearly met a bad egg from the racing industry but I can assure you that the majority of us are not like that it in the slightest and would be disgusted at her attitude.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
The Irish do indeed have a very different attitude towards horses in general. Gordon Elliot anyone!
I have an ex-racehorse which came direct from a small trainers yard where the horses and their needs came first. It was very important to them that TB's under their care went on to have new jobs when their racing career was over. My boy has immaculate manners, when I tried him he went on the bit had been "started correctly" long reined, lunged, pole work, grid work, stands at a mounting block, stands next to a fence to be mounted etc etc. He was not a successful racehorse as he was not interested in racing but had the ability!!
I have an ex-racehorse which came direct from a small trainers yard where the horses and their needs came first. It was very important to them that TB's under their care went on to have new jobs when their racing career was over. My boy has immaculate manners, when I tried him he went on the bit had been "started correctly" long reined, lunged, pole work, grid work, stands at a mounting block, stands next to a fence to be mounted etc etc. He was not a successful racehorse as he was not interested in racing but had the ability!!
Elf On A Shelf
...
GE isn't actually one of the worst offenders he just happened to hit the spotlight one too many times recently because he is stupid.
A lot of yards are seeing the benefits of starting them properly again. There was a phase in the 2000's up until recently where horses have just had tack and a rider thrown on them, galloped and raced with no thought as to doing things properly or for a future career. That attitude is changing thankfully and going back to the way it was always done. Not so much the big factories or the Irish PTP scene but a lot of yards in Britain are doing things properly again. Some never stopped doing it that way.
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
This particular trainer has always started their horses correctly and are well known for it. They work all the horses in GP saddles they train AM then go out to grass PM. I was also carefully vetted before they sold him to me I was very very impressed by their concern about where the horse was going and the facilities I was offering. What they did not want was the horse going to someone who would school on get some results then sell for a decent profit. Kudos to them.