Racehorses..are they ridden & raced too young?

[POLLDARK]

A subject for debate, what are your thoughts. Would a ruling say of not backing until 3 & not racing until 4 years give the horses chance to mature physically (& mentally) making their bone stronger, more dense. Would this lessen the number of broken legs & deaths do you think.? All young, growing animals are less in control of the limbs than an older animal that has grown into itself (witness young teenagers) I, personally, feel that it would be a good thing with no detriment to the industry, in fact would give a good Press. I am ready to be shot down on this but I really do feel it would help all round.

 

[vieshot]

Anyone who doesn't agree that leaving them a few more years to mature would do nothing but good is barking mad IMO

 

[Sameru]

Of course they are but that is when they are at their best/fastest and like any sport going hand in hand with such enormous volumes of money, it wont be changing in a hurry!

Leaving them for a few more years would make their careers much shorter and successes fewer.

 

[vieshot]

Infact if we saw an advert for say a gypsy cob who was two years old and in full work competing at weekends everybody would have an uproar, people emailing the advert owner a torrent of abuse, others wanting to rescue the poor gee gee so he can mature etc etc. No different with a race horse!

 

[be positive]

While it may allow them to fully develop and mature the ones that are bred for NH generally are started later and have longer careers than flat horses.

Of the 5 that died at Cheltenham this week 4 were NH bred horses that did not race before they were 4 years old.

 

[Beausmate]

I don't think the riding and racing is the biggest part of the problem, but more like 50%. The other half being the mental stress these horses are put through. It's too much to shut a yearling up for hours at a time stuffed full of high energy feed then work the backside off it and stick it back in again. I have seen two year olds weaving their way backwards and forwards in their stables, to me it's far worse than them being ridden.

A lot of the problems from the ridden work come from being worked too hard on unforgiving surfaces-virtually every two year old in the yard I worked at had sore shins from being trotted for miles on the road. One three year old was put down as a result of knee damage from pounding on hard surfaces, even the treadmill was hard!

But the mental stress was far, far worse. It was horrible.

And it's harder to fix, my ex-racer ran over hurdles in France aged three, stopped racing aged eleven. He nineteen now and still has psychological problems from his racing days. The physical injuries he sustained are sorted, the mental ones aren't.

 

[touchstone]

I also think that they are raced too young, it also makes it difficult to explain to somebody why it is wrong to back and ride so early when they see professionals doing it.

I am sure that I've seen research online that suggests the growth plates of tb's take longer to fuse than was previously thought.

I also take issue with the argument that they are bred for it and specially fed so it's okay. You can force plants too, it generally doesn't do them any good though and with the risks of DOD/OCD I don't think it is a sensible route to go down.

However that is just my opinion, and I'm sure racing will continue as it is for a long time to come.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

For anyone who hasn't read this yet.

http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

 

[vieshot]

Yay Faracat! I posted that link some weeks ago! Makes for a very interesting read huh!?

 

[Meowy Catkin]

It's a great article. I have to resist posting the link to it everytime someone says - 'my horse is an X, which is a slow/fast maturing breed' - and I'm thinking 'aaaaargh, all breeds mature at the same rate!'

 

[amandap]

I would like to know how a fit horse racing on the flat well maintained turf can break a leg just running? Surely something must be very wrong somewhere for this to ever happen unless the horse trips etc.

Do greyhounds ever break legs just running or human athletes? I'd expect similar instances for these as well as horses having breaks in the scenario described above if it was just the activity/competitive strain.

Surely it points to bone problems/weaknesses or tendon issues?

 

[POLLDARK]

Thanks Faracat for posting that link. I've just read it through, it makes interesting reading. Judging by responses I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks racing needs to put it's house in order, the good publicity would work wonders for the racing industry (because an industry is what it is) if they looked hard at the actual racehorses lives.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The problem is - the speed at which an animal can run (that is made of bone, flesh and sinew) has been reached. I was told that Eclipse would still be able to compete against modern TB's.

 

[Beausmate]

Greyhounds do suffer from leg injuries, mostly wrists and toes I believe. A lot of it is due to always running in the same direction. Don't know how old they are when they start training, are they as immature?

 

[amandap]

Greyhounds do suffer from leg injuries, mostly wrists and toes I believe. A lot of it is due to always running in the same direction. Don't know how old they are when they start training, are they as immature?

Soft tissue injuries I would expect from over exertion but breaks of bone?

 

[SusannaF]

I would like to know how a fit horse racing on the flat well maintained turf can break a leg just running? Surely something must be very wrong somewhere for this to ever happen unless the horse trips etc.

Do greyhounds ever break legs just running or human athletes? I'd expect similar instances for these as well as horses having breaks in the scenario described above if it was just the activity/competitive strain.

Surely it points to bone problems/weaknesses or tendon issues?

Having watched that racehorse autopsy show, I think it happens with horses because they are "engineered" to the limit. They carry a huge mass on very light limbs - one author I read compared horses legs to a whip. You get the power at the top which "cracks" the whip, and the cannon bones/hooves are light - no spare flesh for protection - so that the energy of that "whipcrack" flings them forward.

It's not just that horses are fast; they're also heavy.

I also suspect that they haven't evolved to live to a ripe old age and die in their sleep. Not that that excuses breaking large amounts of horses without questioning why it happens.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I can't be bothered correcting people again!

Right now I am off to party rock out to Brindisi Breeze's win the Albert Bartlett Novices Hurdle at Cheltenham just now

 

[Meowy Catkin]

A horse is so much bigger than a dog, plus it is standing on elongated toes. If you watch the leg break videos of breezing in the US (don't watch if you are sensitive) the shere momentum of the horse means that it cannot pull up when the injury first occurs and this then causes catastophic injuries. It is totally heartbreaking and I'm glad that we don't breeze here.

I have a good friend whose horse managed to break a leg in a small, flat paddock. There were no skid marks or any clues as to what happened, but the result was PTS as the leg was hanging by the skin. It was terrible.

I am not against horseracing and I have had alot to do with retraining ex-racers before I got into arabs. Infact my horse 'nanny' is an ex NH TB and she still loves a good gallop around the field and goes as fast as her old legs will let her, leaving all the others for dust.

 

[Wagtail]

Isn't it all to do with money? The cost of keeping a horse for a further two years before racing it would be prohibitive. Of course it is wrong IMO. But it won't change. Having two ex racers at the yard and both have kissing spines also makes me wonder if starting them young contributes to this condition.

 

[Murphy88]

Actually, current research actually suggests that horses that enter training at 2 have better musculo-skeletal health long-term and longer, more successful careers than those that start racing at 3.

Greyhounds do commonly suffer from fractures, as previously mentioned it is usually fractures of the small bones of the carpus (wrist) and tarsus, and the toes. Carpal/tarsal fractures can easily be career ending, and phalangeal fractures (toes) often need surgical fixation.

PS Congratulations EKW!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Actually, current research actually suggests that horses that enter training at 2 have better musculo-skeletal health long-term and longer, more successful careers than those that start racing at 3.

If you read the Ranger article, the author states that this is a 'mis-application of good research'.

 

[POLLDARK]

Isn't it all to do with money? The cost of keeping a horse for a further two years before racing it would be prohibitive. Of course it is wrong IMO. But it won't change. Having two ex racers at the yard and both have kissing spines also makes me wonder if starting them young contributes to this condition.

You are probably right Wagtail that it won't change in the short term. I agree it's a money issue plus prestige (& impatience for that first win) but I never would have thought Racehorse owners were too POOR to keep a horse for two years..

 

[GTs]

I don't see 40 year old female gymnasts, like I do not see 10 year old maidens.

 

[POLLDARK]

No old female gymnasts, quite right. . Like ballerinas, they start too young & too intensively. Just like racehorses really.

 

[amandap]

A horse is so much bigger than a dog, plus it is standing on elongated toes. If you watch the leg break videos of breezing in the US (don't watch if you are sensitive) the shere momentum of the horse means that it cannot pull up when the injury first occurs and this then causes catastophic injuries. It is totally heartbreaking and I'm glad that we don't breeze here.

I can see how the not stopping causes more damage. Don't think I'll have a look though but thanks.

Thanks as well to SusannaF and others for info on greyhounds.

I often wonder if it's not just age that may be a problem but also life style and diet that may contribute to breakdowns.

It's all a question of what we feel is acceptable risk for the horse for our pleasure and living I suppose. I do feel there are aspects that could improve the lot for horses even further but of course I'm not involved in racing and as such my opinion is usually considered of no value. I still think outsiders do have stuff and ideas to offer though in all horse events and horsemanship in general as they can see more clearly sometimes.

 

[SusannaF]

In the US they have a far higher percentage of breakdowns than in the UK and Australia because of the dirt surface and because of medication use (ie run lame horses on painkillers = breakdown). They also don't warm the horses up before they race - no galloping, just a jog or walk to the start.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/sports/othersports/15racing.html

http://hoofcare.blogspot.com/2010/03/racehorse-deaths-in-usa-continue-to.html

When the surface was switched at some courses, the number of breakdowns decreased:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/05/s...ebate-on-synthetic-tracks.html?pagewanted=all

 

[dominobrown]

I dont think this thread applies to jump racing. We have horse backed at 4 on our yard, as the owner (who bred the horse) deceided it was 'going to be big' (which it is) so gave him another year in the field to mature. It is now 5, and its first run will be a month's time, so actually been produced a lot slower than most dressage, show jump and event horses. In Europe 3 year olds compete (in dressage), so they must have been backed at 2, for horses to be out competing at the standard that they do.
I do agree flat racing should be up for change, I would start racing at 3 on the flat, and continue with hurdles at 4, chase fences at 5.
p.s Jump racing has a lot less money than flat races, but yet the give the horses longer, so its not all about money (for some people at least!).

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Susan, where exactly do you get your facts from? They don't jog and walk to the gate. The canter and gallop. Most all with a pony but still they do. I used to pony and rode races ao you are most definitely wrong.

Terri

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

On the flip side it has also been shown that a horse that doesn't reach the track until it is 5 or 6 years old, and probably didn't get broken until the end of it's 4yo year as most store horses aren't, have a far bigger chance of doing a leg or breaking a bone as they haven't had the conditioning work when younger.

There are 2 sides to every coin.

 

[vieshot]

On the flip side it has also been shown that a horse that doesn't reach the track until it is 5 or 6 years old, and probably didn't get broken until the end of it's 4yo year as most store horses aren't, have a far bigger chance of doing a leg or breaking a bone as they haven't had the conditioning work when younger.

There are 2 sides to every coin.

i would love to see the evidence behind this?