Racing from York - Yearling Stakes

I don't have any doubt about that, I'm sure there are exceptions as there are everywhere, and I did start off by saying I was simply curious to learn more, not that I wanted to get into the morals of the racing industry. On the face of it the flat horses do seem young to be backed and starting a career but I don't know enough about how they are bred, prepared etc to pass any informed comment on this. However with the amount of money involved I would assume they are very well cared for, and as you say their behaviour is testament to this.

I asked earlier on about how mature those in the Yearling Stakes looked today so thank you for your latest post, I did think it must be down to breeding but I wasn't 100% sure.
 
Have to beg to differ with Aces High and Jockmaster; sadly their method of starting youngsters is not the norm. Have connections with the industry and do know what I am talking about.

Actually don't agree at all with two year old running.
 
Can you expand on that in general terms Toby773 , wouldn't want anyone to get into trouble but I'm very interested in how they get such babies ready to race and also how they keep them racing. I would have thought (maybe naively) that if there were methods involved that were cruel or upsetting to the horses they wouldn't perform well.

It does seem that things get done very quickly when compared to how we back & educate an 'allrounder' for example, but as you can see I know nothing about it - it was only the Yearling Stakes that caught my eye & got me thinking.

I would be interested to hear both sides of the story purely out of curiosity.
 
pleased I could be of help ;-) like I said earlier I'm not going to debate the morality of 2yr old racing or the rare individuals that use questionable methods as they do in all equine sports. Go racing one day it really is a good day out.
 
Bearing in mind horses are backed at under 2 years of age, they are immature mentally and physically - that is wrong.

The process varies considerably from yard to yard but horses are routinely introduced to the saddle, backed and on the gallops in 3 weeks. Little wonder the ex-racehorse can be a bit problematic (as in re-schooling) .
 
jockmaster said:
. Go racing one day it really is a good day out.
Click to expand...


I've been to NH & P2P many times but never flat, I must give it a try!

I really don't know enough to get involved in a debate on the morals of racing, either flat or jumps but it does seem they are started young & prepared very quickly.

I'd love to know whether the education that Aces_High gives is out of the norm but I guess every trainer will do things differently and there will be extremes at either end.

I just wanted to know in general terms how the flat youngsters are started because I was surprised at how young they were and how mature they looked.
 
Wow!! An awful lot to answer!! I will jot down the questions and answer them through the day when I get a few minutes - just reading the Racing Post now :-) I don't know how you quote multiple posts hence pen and paper coming into use now!!
 
Thank you Aces_High, I thinks it's a subject that could stir up a few heated debates but that's not what I'm trying to do. I've been to many P2Ps and NH meets and although I don't take it at all at face value I don't really know anyone to ask any questions.

The Yearling Stakes is what has really prompted my brain to go into overtime hence the million posts :)

Thank you for all your info and anything else you can supply would be much appreciated.
 
Right here I go - there is a huge amount to say!! :eek::eek:

Brief background - I have been within the industry for over 20 years and starting riding out at the age of 11/12 - my mother used to freak at me trotting down the road on a 2 yr old! I have also show jumped, hunted, Pony Clubbed so I am not entirely racing born and bred! Prior to setting up on my own, I've worked for the big boys in racing but also some small trainers and the standards throughout are very high. The horses get taken for picks of grass 2x a day, showered with hot water after exercise - sand roll to roll in, swimming if they need it, solarium, the highest quality food, hay etc. I agree there will always be bad people in all areas of life and within the horse world but I would be far from saying that all trainers of racehorses are cruel and don't treat the horses well. In fact the horses are treated better than the staff!!! There is a lot of money involved in racing, prizes need to be won so an owner is lucky enough to maybe get a tiny bit of return for his outlay (not going into the racing is for pleasure not business topic!)

How do we prep and travel the horses for their first run? Well a lot of the horses will have been through the sales ring as either a weanling, yearling or at the breeze ups (2yr olds "breeze" gallop over approx 3 furlongs (600M)) This does prepare them for an outing to the racecourse with noise, people etc. The environment within the sales ring is very intense and quite intimidating but the vast majority all handle it very well. If you close to either Doncaster or Tattersalls I really recommend a trip to the sales to watch the yearlings go through. You have to also remember that these horses are SO well handled from day one. They are handled everyday on the stud from birth. The ones who are homebreds and haven't visited a sales ring still seem to handle their first day out well. The only general problem is a randy colt!!! But that's males and another topic completely!

Why do the 2 year olds look so mature? The TB has evolved a lot over the years. There are obviously early developers and late maturers. Generally speaking the early types will be sprinters and these will have a very similar genetical make up to the AQH which are also raced at 2 yrs old. I don't know if any studies have been done but I wonder if the majority of fast twitch to slow twitch muscle fibres comes into play here. Anyway that aside, the horses are very well prepped for their advancement into either a yard for breaking or straight to the trainers where they will be broken. To be honest, they don't look dis-similar to how the showing people prep their yearlings for shows. They are well fed and preened to the final hair and that with a lot of in-hand walking and a bit on the horse walker and maybe some lunging really conditions the horses. If any of you have seen TB stallions at stud, they look wonderful and all the work prior to covering season is in-hand walking. Maybe get to a stallion parade or the National Stud or call your local TB stud and ask to see their stallions.

A trainer know's not only on pedigree but also how the horse looks and takes it's work as to it being an early type (racing as a 2 year old) or needs more time. Some very good 2 yr olds do not train on and there are a few good sprinters who have been like this. They generally grow a bit and strengthen and fill out from 2 to 3 but some do not change and this often hinders them when they race at top level the following year. Some trainers do like to have the 2yr olds knees x-rayed to see how open the growth plates are. More often than not you can tell by how "open the knees" feel.

NH horses do not start racing until later on in their 3rd year. I know that if a flat horse has been bought to go hurdling from the July Sales it can't run over hurdles until later on (can't remember which month!) A horse that is going to run in Bumper Races (National Hunt Flat Races) cannot have run on the flat or over hurdles first. This is for untried jump bred horses. Whilst on jumping..... NH jockeys are generally taller and weigh more as the horses carry more weight (on their backs in lead/jockey/saddle) than flat horses. Also AP is a legend!!!!

Richard Hughes is a tall flat jockey and would be approx 5ft10 or 11. He's worth watching and you'll see how aerodynamic he is for a tall jockey. He doesn't get in as tight and low as Frankie Dettori but then Frankie is a lot shorter!

Someone mentioned about racehorses being problematic to re-school. I would disagree with this. It's an animal after all that has been trained to do a job and you are wanting it to do something completely different. Take an accountant and stick him in a pub kitchen and get him to do 80 covers for supper. He's going to struggle as you're asking him to do something he's not trained to do. It takes time, patience and training. Some might be complete hot heads and won't be ideal as a quiet hack but it doesn't mean they won't be any good at polo or point to pointing etc.

I would agree that breaking horses in at the latter part of their yearling years seems early and very alien to a lot of people. It is part of the norm in racing. I think my views here will get trounched upon so I am not going to air them!! I spent a few years track riding in Australia but I was too young to appreciate it then but I look at it now and they are certainly doing something right there. I wouldn't expect any of you to look upon your horses as anything other than your best friend and pet but racing is a commodity and the horses can make money and a lot of it for the owners.

I also agree with Jockmaster in that everywhere I have worked the horses have been broken in how mine are broken. I wouldn't have learnt to do it that way otherwise :p!!! Sometimes you can be on them sooner than others but then look at Monty - he's on them within 15 mins!! We do walk MILES and MILES long reining but it's great fun and builds a good rapport with the horse.

I can now say this is the longest post I've EVER posted!!!! I hope it answers the questions from above and if not fire some more my way. More than happy to speak about my main interest in life.
 
Like AcesHigh says, many trainers do take care to break in their youngsters carefully, so they could be suited to another life later on, whereas some others are less careful. But then not every trainer of riding horses is careful either, or we wouldn't have so many problem horses around!

Racehorses get wonderful care and attention and the best of everything. Whether some horse lovers would consider that they get the right environment and lifestyle is a different question. Certainly the trainer is trying to get the very best out of every horse in his care and will go to a lot of trouble and expense to find the key.

As for breaking horses at a young age. The riders are very light, it isn't like an ordinary rider getting on their backs. You see adverts for trainers' yards and there is a weight limit for riders, unlike an eventing or dressage yard. Generally the legs are the first bits of the skeleton to mature, the last bones are those inthe backs and neck. Some racehorses are retired because they are not fast enough, not because there is anything else wrong.

I am always amazed at how well behaved most racehorses are. They load into the horsebox, then they walk quietly round the paddock, they canter quietly down to the start and then gallop. You seldom see them bucking, throwing themselves around or being stupid most of them just get on with their job.
 
Aces_High that's brilliant, thank you so much.

The first bit that clicked a lightbulb was your comparison to the AQH, my farrier has quarter horses & his family all ride western and he was telling me recently that all theirs are backed at 2 and it's simply the way it is done in his sphere of riding. TBH that didn't really cause me a problem emotionally as I think of AQH as a completely different type to the blood horses & much stockier, but now I have given it some thought those guys at York didn't look like any 2 year old TB I have ever seen. I think it's just a case of not comparing them to the baby TBs I have had, as they are clearly not the same as the race horses you work with.
I have seen a few stallion parades albeit only at P2P but they did look amazing and it never clicked that they look like that through walking in hand.

I think the thing to realise is that all the horses I come into contact with are pets as you say, and the race horses most certainly aren't. As was touched on in an earlier post there is so much money involved that they have to be looked after well and given the right start to enable them to do their best,so regardless of the debate about age/training etc they must be reasonably well looked after whilst they have potential. What happens after that is a whole other issue and not really what I am posting about.

OrangeHorse also said something which I hadn't considered and that is the size of the rider which backs the youngsters. All mine have been broken by big adult men and it hadn't really clicked that this isn't the norm for the racehorses, and again that makes absolute sense, especially when considering the weight of the flat jockeys. It isn't as if these poor 2 year olds are being bent in the middle by 13 stone men and that hadn't registered either.

Thank you both for your informative posts, and thanks so much Aces_high for spending so much time putting all your info together. I really have learnt stacks in the last 24 hours or so and as I do go to the races & watch on tv it really is something I should be a bit more educated about.

I am going to try & go to a bloodstock sales one day, I think that would be a great day and very interesting, so that's another to add to the list.

Thanks again.
 
It would have been very educational for you to have watched the interviews with Sir Mark Prescot today on channel 4. He is a brilliant trainer and his 2 year olds are schooled and are accessed BEFORE they go into more intense training. If they turn out to be immature they are left and turned out and left to mature. As he said, until you get them to that level you dont know how they wil cope with real work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top