Radio 2 - Farmers Shooting Dogs

we have sheep put out for a couple of months this time of year next to my favourite walk by the river(it is a public footpath)... i mostly avoid that walk during that time even though it is the best walk round here as i would not risk my dogs off lead near them just in case. i occasionally do walk that way but ALWAYS put both dogs on leads before i get near to the sheep as i would not want to distress the sheep in any way and obviously want to protect my dogs. anyone who walks dogs loose through livestock and is not 100% confident of their recall is asking for trouble in my opinion...
 
I knew a Farmer on the outskirts of Leicester now long dead, who because he had so much trouble over the years with dogs worrying his sheep, he always shot any dog in his fields and always carried some wool in his pockets to shove in the dogs mouth.

I dont necesceraly condone this but having seen the mayhem caused to a farmers sheep caused by didicoi dogs from the Just in park at Market Harborough i can have no sympathy with owners who let their dogs run amok in livestock.
 
A farmer legally has the right to shoot any dog not under control of its owner unless it is a hunting hound (as in fox hound, beagle or harrier) a working collie or a guide dog.
The latter always made me smile at the thought of some blind person hanging onto the handle running after a dog chasing sheep!

I have shot a dog belonging to a neighbour. Over the course of two years it had killed about thirty market ready lambs, several ewes, most had to be shot as they had their udders torn off.
On one occasion when we were moving about 150 lambs the dog came into the field as the sheep were moving towards him and straight away brought one down. I ran and hollered and he let go and ran away.
When we got the lambs into the yard I immediately called the owner. She said he had been let out by mistake - he later turned up and denied his dog had been out. He was a bigger liar than Holy Joe - who broke his neck when falling over the truth!

The police were informed every time and rushed through my rifle license. (I had a shot gun license) Trouble was catching him at it.
Then the day after he had mauled some ewes I heard his kids calling him. I got the rifle and waited.
He came up through the field where he had mauled the ewes and looked around. Saw the sheep in the home field and came straight to the field. He trotted up the fence and when the sheep saw him they flocked up and ran - so did he and that was his demise.

I hated doing it but as the owners were in total denial and refused to keep him leashed, I had no choice.

WHen the police came they asked if he had actually got hold of a sheep. I told the truth and said he never had a chance to but was going to. We put some wool in his teeth before returning the body.
The owner had a PM done whereby I as told he had no lamb meat in his gut (he never fed from a sheep, just took their throats or udders out) and there was no wool in his teeth.
I then received a solicitors letter telling me that I was being taken to court for unnecessarily killing their pet.
This progressed to a letter from a barrister. I wrote back asking if I had to bring my own VCR or would there be one in court. I told him that not only had the dog been shot with a bullet but also with a Sanyo video recorder.
End of matter.
Probably cost us well over £1,500

I would not just go out and shoot a dog for being loose in the field. Heck I have helped a lot of owners sheep proof their dogs. However I would have no qualms about doing so if a dog was chasing them and the owner doing nothing about it.

I can and do walk all the dogs through fields of neighbours sheep but they are all in behind me and know better than to go after sheep (or cattle) just this week I took the four fox hound pups out amongst the weaned lambs. One on showing interest and half thinking about running after them, got my hunting whip across his back legs. Now, I walk them every day through those lambs and they totally ignore.
 
I just want to pick up a couple of points from this thread....

Please, please never ever walk (with or without a dog) through a field of cattle unless absolutely necessary, it is so dangerous, an accident waiting to happen :(

Farmer's attitudes differ, they are human and diverse, just like the rest of the population ;) Some are trigger happy, some are conscientious and some don't even own a gun (yes its true, my farmer OH has never shot a gun in his life!).

Whilst working for the police and living in this rural area we dealt with several dog attacks on livestock. A farmer can shoot, without warning, a dog and has to only ring the police to report what he has done, it most certainly doesn't mean a visit from them, just a log, nor does the farmer have to inform the owner of the dog (quite often he won't know who it is anyway).

I can relay many stories about dog attacks, aborting from stress etc etc and I really don't think people realise exactly how expensive sheep and cattle are. To lose one ewe which probably cost £130 to buy and subsequently on average two lambs which would sell as fat at £75 each - you can see how the costs mount up when losing livestock.

I trust my dogs 100% not to chase livestock because its one of the very first (harsh) lessons they learn but even I would never dream of walking through a farmer's (whom I didn't know) field of livestock without putting them on leads (unless they are actually working at the time) - its simple courtesy and respect.
 
I did listen to the show. The woman in question did dog owners absolutely NO favours WHAT so ever.

1. There were (public) signs on the footpath stating dogs had to be on a lead
2. The dogs had left the footpath and were with the cattle.
3. The farmer had had cattle abort previously after being worried by the same dogs - OK you could argue it was not the dogs but he felt strongly that the 2 events added up
4. He had already warned the owners and requested they keep their dogs in control
5. The dogs were not in the same field as the owner - the woman (her husband had taken the dogs out) could not be clear about where her husband was. She "thought" her husband was nearby but "out of sight". Farmer clearly stated he had checked first to make sure it was safe to shoot.
6. Farmer called the police as soon as he had done it.
7. Woman tried to muddy the water with "fencing is poor" etc. The sign had clearly said "DOGS ON LEADS".
8. Big emotive lead on putting the dogs in wheelbarrows and washing away their blood. Too late.

I love my dogs dearly. I will walk through a field off cattle (on a footpath) with them off lead as they see cattle as horses so stick next to me. However if there was a sign (as there was recently warning there was a bull in the field) then I would put them on leads. I would not even attempt it where sheep were concerned. Sheep are idiotic, easily scared and don't need dogs anywhere near them

I am very sorry the dogs were shot but we are lucky to have our footpaths and rights of access and I very firmly believe that living in the countryside means you respect it and do not treat it like a giant playground for all and sundry.

And we have been on the wrong end of a dog disappearing (staffie boy) who was retrieved by a farmer and taken to the dog warden. He was gone for 5 hours. Turned out the farmer picked him up as the DOG was being herded by the sheep and was somewhat bemused. So training had worked in that instance but it was not one we put to the test. Still Aflie never lost if going after a pheasant again either. We also were incredibly grateful that the farmer gave the dog a chance and didn't shoot him.
 
Bet the owners other two dogs don't get shot, they'll and be kept on a lead now, under close control, unless the owners are a bit dim, though that would not surprise me.


Owners fault from what I heard......
 
I am nursing an 8 week old ewe lamb. She's my only surviving lamb this year (touch wood) Her Mum was sadly found newly passed away in the field 2.5 weeks ago-stock netted and fully enclosed and with electric sheep netting (extra high with freshly charged battery). As I was inspecting the ewe, the neighbour who's gardens back onto the field behind mine walked past with his 2 labs firmly on their leads, his head down as soon as he spotted me. Only the week before he had mocked me for keeping my new rescue shepherd dog on a canni cross lead (round my waist so I'm hands free) while tending my flock...can't control him can you dear??bit too strong for you and doesn't listen? NO. quite the opposite. I believe in not taking chances with my flock or anyone elses. Never worth the risk. My poor ewe died of a heart attack and broken neck. No one saw what happened, but actions speak far louder than words. Dogs do not have to set on a sheep for damage to be caused and jsut because fluffy woos is a working gundog with the softest mouth...it doesn't mean he is not still a dog with basic instincts. Little Breezie lamb is the sweetest little thing & it breaks my heart to think what has happened. Life is so unfair but she still skips & plays..just not with the spring she used to have. I feel for the dogs and i feel for the farmer..the owners brought it entirely upon theirselves. Earlier in this thread someone posted about an elderly man who fell, that was very sad & he was very upset...seems to me these silly owners have no remorse...luckily for them I've bottle feeding to be filling my time otherwise i would be off to give them a piece of my mind!;-/
 
Something that was interesting to me that the farmer said...

He was saying that if a herd of cattle were harrassed by a loose dog, and were wound up because of dogs, and the next folk that happened to be by were an elderly couple with say, a little dog on a short lead - and the cattle, already wound up because of dogs, might in turn attack the little dog. What happens next? I don't think the farmer was some heartless old pr!ck that was just trigger happy. I think from what I heard on his view point that he was actually caring toward his stock but also to people. He wasn't out and out banning dogs and people from his farm. But I would be tempted if it was me!
 
My dogs will always be on lead anywhere near stock. Evie walks through our horses totally unbothered, but they ignore her. Neighbours horses took off once in the next field and she was definitely interested in having a run round with them. Because she is a terror for going deaf when she puts up a rabbit or hare she is always on a long line or flexi lead when walking away from home, I am not bothered about the rabbit but my worst nightmare is her chase taking her into a field of sheep. If they started running and she was already in hunting mode I have no doubt she would chase them. :(
 
Harley is always put on a lead through fields of stock. He shows no interest in sheep, but wouldn't dream of chancing it!!! When in Wales we walked through fields with a type of game bird (no idea what it was) in it, he was put on lead then as they were obv not wild. When it comes to cows though he is flipping terrified. The cows in our area all seem to chase dogs and it is really quite scary! I usually avoid walks with cows in, but they do move fields and sometimes your half way around your walk when confronted.... I put Harley on a lead, walk as far away from them as possible and once the other side (and by this point the cows are usually walking towards us), I let him go and he bolts out the field as quick as he can, with me marching behind!!!!
 
I caught a couple walking their dog in a field adjourning ours and the dog had come into our field and was harassing the dry cows. I saw this from my kitchen window and could see the cattle milling around and something white jumping up at them. I raced out and this dog was actually jumping up at them and trying to bite them, the couple in the next field were calling and calling but couldnt get through the hedge. The husband eventually called and caught the dog but denied it was biting them, now I know this couple and they are responsible dog owners but I told them their dog was actually biting as I had seen it with my own eyes. Once they realised this they changed and told me it was a rescue and had been on the long line for 3 weeks and had excellent recall and had today let it off the lead for the first time. They hadnt bargained for it going through the hedge after the cattle and had previously walked through on lead without incident. This dog was a Collie and was following his instinct and what he was bred for and I dont think people realise when they get a herding or hunting dog that they will chase sheep/cattle or hunt rabbits etc.
The cattle appeared fine (not ours) but said I was duty bound to report it to the farmer as he could keep an eye on them because they were heavily in calf.The farmer was fine about it but was not going to pursue it unless something happened like them aborting , happily everything was ok.
 
marmalade76 said:
Foxhunter49 - out of interest, what breed of dog was it?
Click to expand...

It was a lovely wolfhound lurcher, big dog.
The thing was he had been fine when the idiots first moved here. They had taken the dog on when he kept wandering from his previous gamekeeper owner before they moved here.
The dog was fine for several months and then a friend who had the grazing to the house they were renting, lost several lambs and an old ewe to a dog attack. A week later this dog was seen taking a ewe down.
The owners had a disabled daughter and they begged and pleaded that the dog was not PTS and promised to confine him. They did for about three months and then said he would have 'forgotten' about it.
Odd thing was he never killed the sheep in the immediate fields but went for mine instead.


I had offered to take the dog on to stop him from going after the sheep but they refused - I do not blame the dog, only the owners.

I still get a horrid feeling in my gut when I remember it.
 
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