Radiotherapy on horses - sarcoid related

[fine_and_dandy]

Feeling really quite despondent as I type this.

Horse is 4 year old being backed atm [and doing brilliantly with it]. He had a sarcoid on the bottom of his ear and it was treated in January with Liverpool cream. It fell off about 3 months later. I was concerned because a "core" seemed to be there but I was told by the vet that I would have to wait and see what was left after it dried out and shrank.

I became increasingly concerned that it was not shrinking and dying and that actually, the core hadn't had a dose of the cream anyway. I was told to wait and did, until I had enough [it was bleeding, looked to me like it had got bigger] and got different vet out from the practice. She sent further pictures off to Professor Knottenbelt who has said he is, "very concerned" as it appears to be a non responder...

Basically, he has to have another stronger dose of cream and if that doesn't work, they have said he will have to have radiotherapy either at the RVC or at Liverpool. He can't have surgery because of the location and the concern about damaging his hearing and inner ear.

Has anyone had experience of radiotherapy being used in this way on horses? I've not heard of it before and just want to know what to expect and what it'll be about. Is it the same as in humans where it kind of knocks out the immune system?

I'm gutted. Everything Bailey seems to get is just never straightforward. It's always drawn out, never easy and the worst it could be. Seriously getting fed up.

I would share the whole nut but I've gorged it all whilst wallowing in my current predicament!

 

[leflynn]

Yes for one above the eye, as it was the only option due to the location of it, I did a thread on it on here somewhere. Initial op was Feb this year and I think it was more stressful for me than the horse. He has been really good about the whole process, Prof K was great and explained everything inc the risks, would recommend Leahurst (liverpool) for treatment.

It doesn't nessecarily (sp) knock out the immune system but they can lose weight during treatment. Rod(s) are inserted into the sarcoid and then the horse is put in isolation for a time (depending on what they deem it needs for treatment). The rods are then removed and the process begins. As soon as the rods are removed they are no longer radioactive and I took my boy home the same day. It then takes up to 3 months to start being gooky and abcessing, it does this for a bit (4 weeks for me) and then the lump starts to shrivel...

In all they told me it can take 14 months to resolve fully, the above is also from experience, each horse is different. I got very down about it to, but spoke to leahurst several times and asked a lot of questions and as it was the only option I had, I knew it had to be done. The boy has never really bothered with it, only to use me as an itching post and sometimes got a bit funny about me cleaning his eye at the beginning. Other than that I was able to ride him and be about him as normal

My boy doesn't seem to be straightforwar either, I'd only had him 5 months when I discovered the lump!!

I hope that helps, feel free to ask any questions, will help where poss

 

[Theresa_F]

Don't panic, it is not that bad.

Firstly, Cairo had radiotherapy twice in his eye. He had eye cancer and it would come back in different areas, hence the two sessions. He was not bothered, and as he was such a good boy, they gave him some local and a bit of sedative and did it over two weeks. He would have had more if needed but he died of old age at 22 due to liver problems and his joints were also giving him trouble.

I have had radiotherapy myself last year following chemo and surgery for breast cancer. I had daily treatments for 15 sessions.

It does not effect your immune system, it is chemo that does that.

I did feel rather tired towards the end but I was having a fairly large area done and your body is trying to rebuild itself, hence why you are tired.

I was very sore about 10 days after the last treatment (you keep on cooking) and I was given silver dressings and cream as you would have for a nasty burn.

I do have a slight tan in this area, must not sun bath without the area being covered for two years and then will need to use factor 50. My chest muscles are still a bit tight and I do exercises to keep them supple, but apart from that I am perfectly fine.

I hope the treatment works, and as said, it is not that bad, you are a bit sore and tired but nothing else. I was able to keep working, using my motorcycle and riding whilst having it done but I am the sort that keeps on going no matter what.

 

[fine_and_dandy]

Oh God that does sound fairly urgh re the rods!

How much did that cost? I'm equally annoyed with the vet who did it because he knew time was of the essence re insurance, and I said to him that the sarcoid wasn't shrinking etc and he wouldn't have it, despite my pictures [I emailed them weekly updates so they could compare it] and now there is less than 6 months to try and get it sorted.

I'm not panicking...just stressed to the hilt and this on top of it feels like I am ready to break. I just don't understand how one horse can have so much go wrong with it since the age of 10 months. All random things that just seem to go on for bloody ever and never resolve easily.

 

[leflynn]

It sounds horrid and I thankfully never saw it, just where they had been! It cost me £4600 in total, but that was for 10 days isolation, 2 rods and stabling either side etc. I got told it costs £3k to £5k depending on the severity of the sarcoid and how many rods they use and if they can recycle the rods (he had one new and one recycled rod and was in isolation for 10 days).

I got referred to liverpool and he was in for the op within a month so they are busy but you shouldn't have to wait months to have it done.

 

[fine_and_dandy]

Jesus, £5k???? I don't know what I thought it would cost really, couple of grand but £5k? How on earth do they justify that? And why do you have to pay for the stabling either side? It's hardly fair; if they have the facilities to make a horse radioactive through treatment then they should have the correct facilities to keep it in isolation without penalising you financially if they can't use the stables etc. Did you have any issues with insurers about this treatment?

I don;t know whether he would have to go to Liverpool or to RVC. RVC is closest for us and I can't say I'm enamoured with the idea of him having to travel a long way back after however long he has been there, particularly if he is a bit weak.

How long was it before you could ride again? Was there anything in particular you needed to do for him when he got home to make sure he was ok and comfortable? Really quite worried about it all.

I need more chocolate. Today has not been a good day.

 

[Theresa_F]

Cairo's treatment which was GA, removal of tumour, recovery and I did leave him there for the week before RA was applied, then three treatments of RA and another ten days stay came to £2,500 and the second time he only needed two treatments and the bill was just under £2,000. This was at the AHT in Newmarket.

Whilst not the same as sarcoids, £5,000 does seem rather a lot to pay for something that is not so very different to what Cairo had.

We gave him a month to recover after he came home and then he was back in light work again.

 

[leflynn]

Jesus, £5k???? I don't know what I thought it would cost really, couple of grand but £5k? How on earth do they justify that? And why do you have to pay for the stabling either side? It's hardly fair; if they have the facilities to make a horse radioactive through treatment then they should have the correct facilities to keep it in isolation without penalising you financially if they can't use the stables etc. Did you have any issues with insurers about this treatment?

I don;t know whether he would have to go to Liverpool or to RVC. RVC is closest for us and I can't say I'm enamoured with the idea of him having to travel a long way back after however long he has been there, particularly if he is a bit weak.

How long was it before you could ride again? Was there anything in particular you needed to do for him when he got home to make sure he was ok and comfortable? Really quite worried about it all.

I need more chocolate. Today has not been a good day.

Red was at Liverpool for just over 2 weeks and had quite a bad sarcoid which is why the isolation and rods were higher than average. The cost includes the stabling and isolation time in the fees (which was covered mostly by my insurers thankfully). Liverpool was the closest for us and also (apparently) has the highest success rate out of the places that do it. My boy travels well anyway so a 3.5 hr journey was no issue (him being an ex-racehorse) each way, he just looks at traffic and sometimes has a snooze! On the way back he was fine and started to whinney when we started going up the final hill to home and ran off the box like nothing had ever happened... I think he was pleased to see his mates again

I would have ridden/worked him either side of the op but the bad weather Jan/Feb time put paid to that I lunged him 3 days after he came home and then started to ride from there and again he was fine as it doesn't really affect them too much, it's a bit like having their teeth done, they feel it but aren't too bothered.

The only things other than normal I did for him was be very careful putting anything over his eye area (bridle/headcollar). I also tried to leave the sarcoid wound and not meddle with it as it needed to scab and do its thing, so I only ever occasionally (1 or 2 times a week) cleaned it with warm water and cotton wool if it got dirty. I also put him on Outshine to put the weight back on him as he had lost a little bit. Beyond that he got treated like normal, just with me watching his eye to see if change. Had the vet out once to scan his eye as it didn't seem to be doing much, then it started oozing and has gone down and started to heal, it'll heal and shrink more but it will take time!

At the moment he has a fly mask as it cuts out UV and flies as I don't want to risk anything happening to his eye that shouldn't. He was a bit funny when his eye was swollen about jumping, but he seems fine now and jumping is his new favourite thing (schooling is dull ), he's not eye-shy either which is relief too!

I hope that helps rather than sending you into a choccy fuelled spin x