RAF low flying helicopters - experiences

[mavandkaz]

We have Chinooks, lynx and Merlin low flying over the yard fairly often - every day this week, including 3 chinooks in formation this evening (they are making the most of the clear nights). None of the horses are bothered.
I have been out hacking before and been able to see the pilots. I'm always in hi Vis and if they see me they usually change path. The police helicopter that trains around here is awful though.
When we moved into our current house we had real issues with very low flying Merlin which caused the house to shake, and also in the middle of the night. OH is ex RAF (Chinooks) so after one stupidly low flypast he was straight onto the RAF base (Odiham). They took him seriously, helped by the fact he knew who to speak to, could use the right terminology, gave a six figure grid reference etc.
We did hear back and the pilot had been reprimanded for flying too low (above power lines).
We certainly got less after that. So if there is a real issue, do make a complaint. But all my horses have been absolutely fine after the first couple of times. Even when a Chinook landed on the other side of a hedge next to the sand school I was riding my youngster in

 

[fabbydo]

I have had to contact them on many occasions. They don't care. Their arrogance is unbelievable. On the first occasion (about 15 yeas ago), they actually turned around and flew back over me. Initially, they denied this but I had an independent witness. They then changed their story to the pilot was coming back to check I was ok. Hmmm....that's really safe! The flight line is useless. It doesn't release details of all flights and doesn't work at the weekends. They own so much land, why do they have to practise landings and low flights over other people's? I have asked them, no satisfactory reply! They continue to offer to pay vet bills etc. I don't want their money. I just want them to stop practising landing near my horses on private land.
They will not release details of who is flying so there is no way of finding out if it is the same person. They say they cannot tell me exactly what training is planned as they may decide on the day. Wow! Is there no clear training programme? Are they just out for a jolly? How much tax payers' money are they wasting on each adhoc flight?
Apparently, I should wear hiviz when riding in the school. Really?!!!!
I'm sure there are some lovely people working for the MOD who have high professional standards but I haven't meet them yet.

 

[doodle]

I had a chinook go over last year. Scarily low and very slow. I had no time to do anything so just held on to neck strap and hoped.

Quite a few years ago I was working in a riding school. We had a lesson with 5 kids and ponies in the school plus another couple tied up. Something went over and it was carnage. With 2 of us we couldn’t grab all the ponies and most kids came off. Owner contacted the raf and they basically didn’t care as there were no actual injuries.

Thankfully that base closed and it has made life so much easier.

 

[Abi90]

. Thought better of dignifying a certain post with a reply

 

[Abi90]

I thought I would clear up a few things:

1. Pilots have to fly routinely to maintain currency and competency in all roles they may be asked to conduct. This ensures they are safe and ready to go not only for deployments but for national emergencies such as flooding and shoring up the Whaley bridge dam.

2. Weather and aircraft serviceability affect where they can fly which is why they can’t plan until the day they fly.

3. None of these sorties are a “jolly”. A huge percentage of the armed forces are living in accommodation with no heating or hot water therefore every sortie has to be justified as money is that tight.

4. Unless it’s an emergency, they can only land on private land where they have permission. So either they have permission or it’s an emergency.

5. If you live in an area with a high amount of low flying aerial activity then it would be prudent to wear high viz. you cannot be avoided if you can’t be seen, this includes in your own arena.

6. If a pilot thinks that they may have caused an accident then they will fly back to check. They may be able to radio for assistance for you if they have and you were alone (this has happened).

7. Pilots do not fly around deliberately trying to terrorise horses and livestock

8. You can’t have a no fly zone put around your house. But they may try to avoid you.

9. Horses do get used to it. In fact, the other day at work a puma landed 100m from the saddle club and flew over it 64 times and none of the horses even looked, including the new ones that hadn’t seen a helicopter before.

10. There is a bigger picture, all training is done with a purpose. Some of it may very well benefit you in the future. All rotary aircraft in the UK have been used to support military aid to the civilian authorities at some point to benefit the people that complain about them.

11. They won’t release details of who is flying in order to protect those personnel from harm. You may just want to complain about helicopters spooking your horse but other people may have a more sinister motive.

 

[Michen]

I have had to contact them on many occasions. They don't care. Their arrogance is unbelievable. On the first occasion (about 15 yeas ago), they actually turned around and flew back over me. Initially, they denied this but I had an independent witness. They then changed their story to the pilot was coming back to check I was ok. Hmmm....that's really safe! The flight line is useless. It doesn't release details of all flights and doesn't work at the weekends. They own so much land, why do they have to practise landings and low flights over other people's? I have asked them, no satisfactory reply! They continue to offer to pay vet bills etc. I don't want their money. I just want them to stop practising landing near my horses on private land.
They will not release details of who is flying so there is no way of finding out if it is the same person. They say they cannot tell me exactly what training is planned as they may decide on the day. Wow! Is there no clear training programme? Are they just out for a jolly? How much tax payers' money are they wasting on each adhoc flight?
Apparently, I should wear hiviz when riding in the school. Really?!!!!
I'm sure there are some lovely people working for the MOD who have high professional standards but I haven't meet them yet.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Abi90]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Thank you. Put more succinctly than what I posted last night and decided to retract. After working 12 hr plus days for 4.5 months, barely able to see my own horse, now run down with mouth ulcers, whilst I am not a helicopter pilot I was rather put out by being called unprofessional by a stranger on an Internet forum!

 

[Tiddlypom]

If we’re taking irresponsible landing without permission on private land, it’s the leisure hot air balloon brigade who are the pain in the arse round here. They cause far more accidents than low flying by the forces (backed up by local vets).

They come very low overheard, very slowly, maybe see the horses and decide to put the burner on so they don’t don’t land on my land but in the next field along. The burner is very loud, and because the balloon is drifting very slowly, there’s plenty of time for the horses to dash around and injure themselves.

The forces need to get air time. They’ve got to do it somewhere.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I second the comment about hot air balloons. We used to get a lot over us as we were on the hill above Stanford Park, a matter of a couple of miles as the crow flies, a major venue for balloons. 20 or more overhead some days. Have had a dog bolt because of them and have had my broodmares and foals terrified. Only once had one land and that was just across the road from my brood mares.
At the time of the Falklands war we used to get the low flying jets coming over, they were terrifying as they were so fast you didn't get any warning. Never had any problems with our horses but did hear of complaints locally. My husband also used to get treated as a target when he was on the tractor, not a problem, quite amusing in fact. My sister was once crossing the Motorway bridge when she saw a large plane flying along above the M-way and swears blind it had to lift to go over the bridge. They were interesting times.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Hot air balloons are a menace. I had DP in the school when two very low flying Hercules planes flew right over the top of us on the way back to Brize and he didn’t bat an eyelid. One summer evening an air ballon much higher suddenly arrived overhead from nowhere and caused mayhem. Why shout down from the sky and wave at you for gods sake, poor horse was terrified.

 

[windand rain]

Ponies were on the end of a runway next to the shooting range while there the helicopters regularly landed so close they knocked the electric fences over the ponies never bothered. Red Arrows flew their display never flinched Chinook took of with a boat slung underneath throwing thunderflashes over the side no problem but an orange/yellow sea king caused havock. Not sure but think it has something to do with colour preception they could hear it but see it properly. So yes they do get used to it. I will say that these were exercises not everyday occurances

 

[fabbydo]

You have no idea what you are talking about.

In what way? I am saying what happened to me and my experience. I don't understand why they need to do this over private land when they have their own land.

 

[Michen]

In what way? I am saying what happened to me and my experience. I don't understand why they need to do this over private land when they have their own land.

I think you just answered your own question. You don’t understand. Educate yourself perhaps before you are so rude and insulting about our military forces who- directly or indirectly- you should be thankful for.

 

[fabbydo]

Please educate me as to why this cannot be done on MOD land? I've had helicopters practise landings ie not quite touching the ground so not technically landing. Can this not be done elsewhere? Genuine question.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Ponies were on the end of a runway next to the shooting range while there the helicopters regularly landed so close they knocked the electric fences over the ponies never bothered. Red Arrows flew their display never flinched Chinook took of with a boat slung underneath throwing thunderflashes over the side no problem but an orange/yellow sea king caused havock. Not sure but think it has something to do with colour preception they could hear it but see it properly. So yes they do get used to it. I will say that these were exercises not everyday occurances

They probably thought it was a super sized horse fly, and thought i am not being stung by THAT !?!

 

[hellfire]

I had certain fields on my farm flagged as a no fly zone as had so many issues with western power and the army barracks up the road. Put up with it for years as new horses and the cows were used to it until it killed one of my turkeys with stress.
The horses got used to them but was the final straw that year when all the hay I’d just put down blew down the field into the road nearly causing a car to crash as they were that low. Was like tumble weed never seen anything like it before. Plus I lost one of my turkeys with stress. She left her nest which was due to hatch 18 chicks. I ended up claiming off them as that’s part of my farms income.
That was western power flying UNDER the power lines IN with horses and right next to the poultry! I could see the mans face!
Hopefully with you writing to them provided you really big things up they will take it on board and make your area a no fly zone.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Please educate me as to why this cannot be done on MOD land? I've had helicopters practise landings ie not quite touching the ground so not technically landing. Can this not be done elsewhere? Genuine question.

It's like only ever riding in your own school then wondering why Neddie mis behaves at its first off yard experience, which is at a oversubscribed county show and wondering why you have one off and Neddy has legged it.

 

[SEL]

For the OP and others the rules the MOD must adhere to will be on the internet and if you can find your local military base on FB they usually have warnings of exercises etc which increase traffic. Personally I've always found them pretty responsive to emails if there's an issue.

My youth was spent on the edge of Salisbury plain which was excellent territory for training horses not to spook ?.

 

[Abi90]

It's like only ever riding in your own school then wondering why Neddie mis behaves at its first off yard experience, which is at a oversubscribed county show and wondering why you have one off and Neddy has legged it.

Excellent analogy!!

 

[Abi90]

In what way? I am saying what happened to me and my experience. I don't understand why they need to do this over private land when they have their own land.

They will have permission to land on private land. If they aren’t landing then UK airspace is open to anyone to use.

Often helicopters do practise on MOD property but they have to be able to work in all sorts of environments and terrain. An airfield does not offer those training opportunities.

They fly through parts of Scotland with underslung loads

 

[PurBee]

We get fairly low flying private helicopters in rural ireland. Rarely military, but have had the odd chinook...is it?

Prince Charles got a wave as he went over my tiny acreage from the west to east while visiting ireland a while ago...i coildnt believe it...i only heard on the news that the royals were over visiting and paid no attention until seeing the low flying large royal copter.

Because im tucked in amongst forestry some really do seem to skim the trees, thinking no-ones about...i can see the pilot often. It’s quite a thudding echoing sound due to the valley landscape here. Tiny private copters tend to be the lowest than military.

I generally wave at them as i know they can see me!
The horses when first here did look up...yet i was amazed how much they didnt bother about them...for arabs especially!

If theyre lower than normal and very loud, the horses may trot off the stress of the sudden interruption to grazing but really..,im amazed how horses on the whole dont freak out more tbh. Theyll always be exceptions as this thread shows.

Perhaps a horse would be more reactive if stabled, as it cant see the source of the noise? Is your farrier working on your horses undercover?

im quite thankful for the stress experience in a way to educate my horses and de-sensitise them as there’s not much in deep rural very quiet surroundings that does it...except gun shots, which they know but are more alert to.

Its true the MOD bods dont live in luxury. I once worked contracts at RAF bases in the uk refurbing their accommodation ...most were very basic prefabs, many cold and damp, and the properties off base weren’t much better either....around wittering/cambs area. It was quite eye opening to see inside the lives of MOD personnel. The military budget isn’t put into any luxury for the workers from what i witnessed! I sensed the stress of the life, security being high everywhere, no allowances for mistakes at all.
I’m not excusing any bad behaviour of pilots if that is happening, but its a wrong impression to have that they’re spoilt rotten in the military and love the ego bounce of being a pilot, as the movies love to show!

 

[LadyGascoyne]

They practice night flying here and one of the exercises is to have an unlit aircraft chased by a chinook. They routinely get as low as a few meters off the ground.

I wrote a few times and got the usual ‘we are sorry that you are unhappy’ approach and was told that if anything happened to the animals, they would pay out but beyond that, they couldn’t stop the situation for all the reasons around competencies listed above.

They don’t need permission to get below usual flying restrictions and there is no minimum height for helicopters.

One night the aircraft got so low that I was looking down on it from upstairs in the house - and it was in the field with the horses.

They were absolutely terrified. They broke through their fences and nearly ended up on an A road. I got in touch again and told them that we’d nearly caused a serious risk to human life and the approach was totally different.

They have not been anywhere near as low again and I honestly haven’t been woken up once since it happened. I used to be woken twice or three times a night with the house shaking.

Risks to human life are clearly a different category to stock, so if there was a genuine risk to the farrier then I’d say so.

 

[dogatemysalad]

We have helicopters flying over several times a day, probably because we're near a motorway. We used to also have the military helicopters which at times flew so low over the menage that I could almost see the pilots shirt buttons. Surprisingly, even my highly strung mare never reacted.
Friend had to hold two horses after an accident out hacking, while the helicopter landed close by. The horses behaved beautifully throughout.
Well trained horses are amazing, which is probably why they've been used on the battlefield for centuries,

 

[Bradsmum]

When we were looking to move from Surrey to Wales I was quite nervous about all the tales of military flying in various areas I posted on here and asked how the horses coped and several people told me the horses just get used to it. I was not convinced. However we are on the west coast in Ceredigion and get RAF jet planes from Anglesey flying low through the valley, presumably circle over the sea and come back. Often seems to be groups of three. You don't often hear them coming but sure do hear them as they fly over/past. The horses rarely react out in the fields - not even the spooky one. I'm not currently riding so haven't tried that yet but given their at rest behaviour, I am encouraged if a little surprised.

 

[maya2008]

We get them regularly, horses not bothered at all. Luckily - we have had them almost close enough to see the pilot’s face whilst hacking! Our field is bordered by trees which keeps them slightly higher up though.

 

[Hanno Verian]

Going back to the original post - Yes do write to them and tell them, if you don't tell them they wont know! Be sure that you make them aware of the impact and any risks to life resulting from their activity.

With regards to Fabbydoo Did you know that there was helicopter training activity in the area when you bought your house? It strikes me as remarkably sensible to wear hi Viz in the school if there are low flying aircraft, I always hack out in Hi Viz, if I'm on my own I almost always have a Hi viz exercise sheet on the horse as well, I've never had an issue with low flying military aircraft.

 

[Hexx]

The Red Arrows practice over our yard, sometimes daily. None of the horses are bothered about it and any new ones have a bit of a look the first time and then settle down.

I love watching them practice overhead - they can be quite noisy though, especially if you are having a lesson and can't hear the instructions!

 

[canteron]

Well writing to the RAF is a waste of time. My letter was short polite and very specific about why a certain low flight path is potentially dangerous.

Clearly no one actually read it just sent a rambling 2 page patronising standard reply which the could have paraphrased in one word ...

Tough!

 

[Muddywellies]

Mine doesn't react either. Used to be stabled in an area with a high level of military aircraft activity, so now doesn't bat an eyelid. However if a sparrow moves in a hedge.....

 

[pansymouse]

I ride on Salisbury Plain and see helicopters of all sizes all the time; my very dramatic mare completely ignores them. I had a neighbour who was an Apache instructor and he trained all his pilots to avoid horses but said they can only see them if they or the rider have hi viz on. I never ride on the Plain without hi viz.