Ragwort all over field - disgusted by HHO member!

Blimey. You lot got busy whilst I was out playing on a twenty foot inflatable slide. It took me ages to catch up with that lot! Good riddance to bad rubbish frankly!
 
joeanne said:
Equestrianfriends said:
jesstickle said:
Load of old tosh. Paracetamol will only cause liver damage if too much is taken, and the liver function is impared beyond 25%. After that the liver cannot regenerate itself.
The reason we dont write paracetamol causes liver disease is because it CANT....it CAN however cause liver FAILURE if too much is taken at any one point!
Click to expand...

Liver disease covers any kind of disruption to liver function. I would have thought this would include liver damage by paracetamol. However, I am no great expert. If it is an imperfect example I apologise profusely. Probably the other example I used, alcohol, is a much better example to model ragwort poisoning as certainly the liver damage caused by drink does become liver disease just like ragwort poisoning does in horses. It really is a moot point anyway now that we're all being friends but again, if you are a hepatologist and I have offended you I really am sorry.

I should have double checked with my friend the pharmacist before posting I guess!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
jesstickle said:
joeanne said:
Equestrianfriends said:
Liver disease covers any kind of disruption to liver function. I would have thought this would include liver damage by paracetamol. However, I am no great expert. If it is an imperfect example I apologise profusely. Probably the other example I used, alcohol, is a much better example to model ragwort poisoning as certainly the liver damage caused by drink does become liver disease just like ragwort poisoning does in horses. It really is a moot point anyway now that we're all being friends but again, if you are a hepatologist and I have offended you I really am sorry.

I should have double checked with my friend the pharmacist before posting I guess!
Click to expand...

Sooo, i guess it's not a good idea to pull ragwort without gloves after drinking too much brandy, then take a couple of paracetamol for the following headache?? ;)
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
brighteyes said:
Well I have no idea why you go to these ridiculous lengths, after all, we have been reliably informed by YD that



And remember it only may cause liver damage.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

That may be the case, but I know a horse who has ragwort poisoning. He copes with life but I think his time is near tbh. It was caught early, they went to biopsy his liver and it was like mush :eek: Alot of time and money has gone into ensuring that horse is comfortable. He now gets repeated attacks of laminitus, ties up, unable to be ridden as the repeated attacks of laminitus has really taken their toll on his feet.. poor soul :(

I would like to add the ragwort poisoning did not happen at my yard!
 
Damnation said:
That may be the case, but I know a horse who has ragwort poisoning. He copes with life but I think his time is near tbh. It was caught early, they went to biopsy his liver and it was like mush :eek: Alot of time and money has gone into ensuring that horse is comfortable. He now gets repeated attacks of laminitus, ties up, unable to be ridden as the repeated attacks of laminitus has really taken their toll on his feet.. poor soul :(

I would like to add the ragwort poisoning did not happen at my yard!
Click to expand...

The "mush" description is rather odd IMHO as I understand ragwort causes cirrhosis, which is characterised by hardening and scarring rather than "mushiness". Certainly the liver damage we look for when we slaughter our pasture-cleaning sheep is hardening. We never find any hardening or "mushiness" though.

There are a lot of horses with liver problems where it is pinned on ragwort, I've never been certain whether this is realistic or convenient. There are a lot of people with liver problems too, but they are investigated rather than being easily lumped together as "ragwort poisoning" just because the liver is involved.
 
jemima_too said:
The "mush" description is rather odd IMHO as I understand ragwort causes cirrhosis, which is characterised by hardening and scarring rather than "mushiness". Certainly the liver damage we look for when we slaughter our pasture-cleaning sheep is hardening. We never find any hardening or "mushiness" though.

There are a lot of horses with liver problems where it is pinned on ragwort, I've never been certain whether this is realistic or convenient. There are a lot of people with liver problems too, but they are investigated rather than being easily lumped together as "ragwort poisoning" just because the liver is involved.
Click to expand...

Thats right, it becomes scared and solid! Liver problems can even be caused my Lymes disease! In humans it would be very easy to say yep they got hepatitis, or alcoholic liver disease... but it can come from the pancreas, gall stones etc etc... not everything is black and white!

And as regards paracetamol, of course it can cause liver damage! Same with any poison.
 
fburton said:
I don't think it's true to say that all poisons cause (direct) liver damage.
Click to expand...

of course they will over a time, you may not get acute but defo chronic, your liver will carry on and on and on and on some more, but with abuse one day it suddenly says thats enough, it won't warn you.. some ppl only need as little as 1/2 glass of wine a day for years and one day their liver will be diseased, where another person it may take a bottle a day to cause the same damage. Tis a fact!
 
ARGH!

I'm gonna say that it breaks my heart that the lasting legacy of a much loved horse is a piece of legislation no one bats an eyelid to. Rag is getting worse and worse and worse and heartbreakingly the worst offenders seem to be horse owners.

Why, one wonders? Because of posts that declare horses won't eat it and would have to eat it by the kilos for days to get sick.

I had a mare almost die on me from ragwort poisoning. Trust me, she hadn't eaten kilos of rag. She hadn't eaten kilos of anything. She was starved half to death. Ragwort was all she had left and that little she ate was enough to not only cause liver damage, but kidney failure and brain damage.

The only myth on Rag is that poisoned horses are write offs. THEY DO NOT HAVE TO DIE! If only owners knew what they were dealing with, could start treatment.

Despite suffering multiple organ failure and some sort of equine depression (ever seen a horse attempt to die of mild colic? I have!) - we saved that horse.

From that came a councillor who fought doggedly to introduce legislation. A lady who also mourned with us when my beautiful girl lost her life to a lipoma.

But now everyone thinks it's okay, people put the value of a moth (who can exist on plants that are not ragwort and ragwort in it's rosette stage, so no need for 150,000 offspring plants!!!) over the value of our horses.

Yes, rag kills livestock who live long enough and yes, it is one of the five noxious weeds (which whilst aren't notifiable, are recommended to be removed. I wonder how many horse owners can name all five and remove all five from their paddocks, because I can promise you I do!!!)

I find it ironic beyond belief that SCC is one of the sources in this thread as they're probably nuturing several hundred tonnes of rag throughout the county this summer. They're ignorant beyond belief on rag and have had this pointed out regularly for years.

But what bugs me the most is why people insist on bickering about it. I long ago decided if you can't be fecked to put your horse in a safe paddock, well your horse is better off dead than in your care. Rag is quick for most horses.
I don't care that my neighbours don't rag, although it sickens me, because my horse is safe and in a 99% rag free field. They probably believe their horses will eat round it (eat what round it, I don't know, the field is a solid mat of rag...)

I've lost my steam when it comes to helping other people and other horses with rag. I saved Cariad and I do my bit to stop Dorey ever getting sick like it. You could feed your horse dried rag in a haynet for all I care, having petty spats on an internet forum won't help anyone.

I'm tired of the ragwort battle. The plant is winning. It's all I can do to win my tiny wars and I once swore not to rest until it was gone from this country. Never going to happen. Breaks my heart. :(
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
of course they will over a time, you may not get acute but defo chronic, your liver will carry on and on and on and on some more, but with abuse one day it suddenly says thats enough, it won't warn you.. some ppl only need as little as 1/2 glass of wine a day for years and one day their liver will be diseased, where another person it may take a bottle a day to cause the same damage. Tis a fact!
Click to expand...
'Tis not, I'm afraid. The key phrase is "over a time". Many poisons can kill before there is any liver damage. (In that case, the liver will become damaged after death of course, but that's because it's been deprived of a blood supply, not because the poison is having a direct effect on it!)

That said, I support what you posted earlier, especially the 'information sheet'. I think ragwort is a serious problem, but I am also against scare-mongering.
 
I remove the small amount of ragwort on my land but reading stuff like this does make me want to know more and the truth. http://www.ragwortfacts.com/index.html

According to this the effects are only cumulative if liver is damaged and for liver to be damaged a toxic dose has to be eaten in one go. It states small amounts over time do not cause damage as the body can deal with low level of toxins...
makes sense to me.
Mta... my main worry has always been about ragwort in hay but how right I may be I have no real idea.

As an aside... I have personal experience of giving un treated, ground fresh linseed now to my horses for well over a year with no toxic affects. I believe linseed is given to horses in many countries without cooking including USA and Australia... :cool:

Disclaimer... this is my opinion and experience do your own research and come to your own conclusions. :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
also according to current surveys ragwort is at the same level as every year and if anything is decreasing.

its more noticable this year i am guessing due to the freaky weather.

also pulling it by hand is harmless as the toxic chemical is only activated in digestion and cant pass into the blood stream via skin contact as it is not present then.

i think it should be pulled in grazing but its not major.
 
ceiron said:
also pulling it by hand is harmless as the toxic chemical is only activated in digestion and cant pass into the blood stream via skin contact as it is not present then.
Click to expand...
There's more than one toxic chemical in ragwort - so I would still recommend wearing gloves for pulling. I pulled a whole field once without gloves and didn't feel very well at the end of it (nasty headache). That could have been a coincidence, of course, but I always wear gloves now just in case.
 
ceiron said:
also according to current surveys ragwort is at the same level as every year and if anything is decreasing.

its more noticable this year i am guessing due to the freaky weather.

also pulling it by hand is harmless as the toxic chemical is only activated in digestion and cant pass into the blood stream via skin contact as it is not present then.

i think it should be pulled in grazing but its not major.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting this info from, there have been scientific studies showing that the toxins pass through the skin. If you read back through my earlier posts and the reply by Murphysminder you will see who did these studies.
 
fburton said:
There's more than one toxic chemical in ragwort - so I would still recommend wearing gloves for pulling. I pulled a whole field once without gloves and didn't feel very well at the end of it (nasty headache). That could have been a coincidence, of course, but I always wear gloves now just in case.
Click to expand...

I second this, always wear gloves when pulling ragwort, it is toxic to humans too and I believe can enter the blood stream through your skin.
 
Hi,
I stopped reading p6... there are too much pages.
Well first of all, If we have a problem with someone only, we go talk to this person alone or by private messages due to we all in this forum... How old are you seriously? :rolleyes:

Secondo, a horse eat what is good for him and he can smell if the plant have poison. In the wild, there are a lot of toxic plants that horses NEVER touch and if they do, its because there have a problem of smell or they are too angry (but even that, they wont touch it normally)

Last but not least, Leave the people how care about horses alone! There are to many horses that are locked in a very small place with no food or no water... go look for them and complain the owners. Not the ones how care for their horses!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top