Ragwort all over field - disgusted by HHO member!

Foxhunter49 said:
Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant.

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Who cares?:D

"Well, I disagree. You shouldn't be flip about it, it's a bloody disgrace and any horse owner should be ashamed to have it growing in a field their horses graze.

The blasted weed needs confining to areas it isn't likely to kill livestock and whoever it was said it needs to be ingested to be harmful, well that's a load of billhooks too. It is poisonous on contact with the skin and although less toxic than if ingested, it's effects on the liver are still evident when tested".

...........................Too right!
 
I know of a horse who was grazed around ragwort for most of her life. 5 months ago she was brought in looking poorly. Overnight she had become emancipated and barely able to stand. Three days later she was dead from liver disease believed to be as result of ragwort poisioning.
The worst thing is the owner still had fields full of the damn stuff.
 
Anyone remember Deja's ponies?
Oh and I think I suspect the person being 'accused' here, was instrumental in trying to get those ponies help. Oh well, keep on hating, it's soooo productive....
 
The reason well managed pasture has little if any ragwort ,has nothing to do with "pulling ragwort" Ragwort finds it almost impossible to become established in a dense ,close, sward . It thrives on disturbed soil where it has no competition and relys on its ability to grow above surrounding competitors. The seeds are EVERYWHERE ,dormant. The reason they spring up on verges and after digging is because the seeds ALREADY THERE sprout. Its pointless worrying about uncontrolled ragwort because you will never have any impact on the seed reserve in the soil.Perhaps if more attention was given to pasture management and not overgrazing ,then there would be fewer fields showing it. Frankly, even if you are conscientiosly pulling ragwort ,you only clear the mature plant and your horse grazes amongst the seedlings.Your field might look better ,but the horse is less likely to eat a mature plant than a seedling.I doubt whether there is much difference in the number of viable ragwort seeds in a picked field as opposed to an unpicked one. The key factor is not the ragwort plants but the fact that they are indicative of A LACK OF GRASS TO EAT .A hungry horse will eat anything!
 
**Dandelion** said:
No I will not name them as I think that IS unfair - and can I ask how people are suppoed to 'lynch' someone when they don't know who they are? lol.
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See I think you should have named them with a polite request that everyone who read the thread PM'd them and politely asked that they pulled their ragwort :)
 
I think this year is particularly bad for ragwort (or good if you are a ragwort plant I suppose!) Our yard comprises of fields that were mainly used as hay fields until 2 years ago, managed by a YO who is absolutely fastidious about keeping his fields clear. This year it is springing up all over the place, I suspect due to the ground being poached now it is being grazed all year round and dormant seeds being disturbed. We pull it every time we come across it but more is springing up. The next door yard has fields that are full of the stuff, along with several types of thistle and docks, they will be getting reported this year in the hope they will be made to do something about all of their weeds that are seeding into our fields as they completely ignore it.

I do believe that the seeds are carcinogenic and are inhaled by grazing horses after shedding so another reason to ensure that they are not allowed to seed.

I have to be honest and say that if OP has spoken to the land owner she is writing about then she should report it if it is being ignored, but I do not see the point of the thread other than to rant and be antagonistic towards posters who don't agree with her. It does come across a tad personal!
 
Mike007 said:
Makes no difference ,just leave them in a heap outside your field ,to compost. They arent demon gremlin zombie trifid plants ,they are just dead plants.
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Now where's the fun in that? Next you will be telling me I don't have to dance naked round the flames to ward off the evil spirits either!:eek:
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
OK I will give a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-

Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesn’t mean that there is nothing we can do.
The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.

Q: Is it true that horses usually do not eat fresh Ragwort?
A: Yes, that is right. Only in exceptional circumstances or when there is a food shortage, horses will eat fresh Ragwort. Horses, however, don't recognize dried Ragwort plants as poisonous and contaminated hay may cause Ragwort poisoning. More info

Q: Will my horse get ill when it occasionally eats a mouthful of ragwort?
A; No, incidentally ingesting small amounts of Ragwort will not result in illness. If, however, horses eat several kilograms of Ragwort a day or small amounts for extended periods, this may lead to irreparable liver damage. More info

Q: Do the toxins in Ragworts accumulate in a horse’s body?
A: No. The toxins (pyrrolizidine alkaloids) are excreted within 24-48 hours. If an animal consumes pyrrolidizine alkaloids regularly though, liver damage will accumulate and the animal will show signs of illness. More info

Q: Is it true there are several hundreds of victims each year?
A: The exact number of victims of Ragwort poisoning is unknown. The symptoms of Ragwort poisoning cannot be distinguished from other liver disorders and poisoning can only be confirmed by means of a post-mortem liver exam. These exams are, however, not common practice, and reliable data on the number of victims are therefore not available. There could be more than hundreds of victims, but there could also be much fewer. More info

Q: Will touching a Ragwort plant result in alkaloid poisoning?
A: No. Ragwort poisoning takes place in the digestive system. In the plant, pyrrolidizine alkaloids are stored in their non-toxic form. Only if these substances end up in the digestive system, they will be converted into their toxic form. There is no scientific evidence that skin contact leads to the conversion of non-toxic alkaloids into their toxic form. Some people experience an allergic reaction after skin contact (compositae dermatitis), but this response is cause by sesquiterpene lactones rather than pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These sesquiterpene lactones are common chemical compounds of members of the Sunflower family. More info

Q: Are all Ragwort species poisonous?
A: Yes, all Dutch Ragworts contain pyrrolizidine alkaloids. These are also found in Comfrey and Butterbur.

Q: Why is Ragwort fairly common in horse pastures?
A: Ragwort needs a bare spot to germinate. Horses easily churn up the ground when running, and graze the grass very short, thereby easily creating open spots suitable for seed germination. More info

Q: Why is Ragwort nowadays more common in the Netherlands than before?
A: Ragworts are presumably more common in the Netherlands and neighboring countries than 30 years ago, because the number of suitable habitats has increased due to large-scale renewal of infrastructure, building activities, and efforts to give agricultural land back to nature. In addition, Ragwort seeds have been used to enrich roadsides. There is no evidence that Ragworts have a different habitat preference or better dispersal capabilities than in the days when this species was much less common in the Netherlands. More info

Q: How can I recognize Ragwort?
A: Ragwort is a biennial. In the first it only has leaves organized in a rosettes. These can be found throughout most parts of the year. Ragwort usually flowers in the second year (June till October). After the plant has produced seeds, it dies. The leaves of Ragwort are pinnately lobed. Flowerheads often occur in clusters called corymbs. They are yellow with ray and disk flowers. Click here for pictures of Ragwort and other Ragwort species.

Q: I have Ragwort plants growing in my horse's field, what can I do?
A: Ragwort is difficult to eradicate and most methods to remove the plants, such as pulling by hand, mowing, and using herbicides, may have increase rather than decrease the number of Ragwort plants at a given site. The best way is probably to prevent ragwort from establishing in a pasture. Good pasture management is therefore of utmost importance. More info

Q: Is it true that the toxin in Ragworts can poison a whole bale of hay?
A: No. The toxins remain in the plant and don't 'contaminate' the rest of the hay. It is advisable though not to use the rest of the bale for consumption, because undetected parts of the plant may have remained in the hay and can potentially lead to Ragwort poisoning.
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^^^^Very imformative and useful info here! Glad to find some info which doesn't seem intent on 'scare-mongering' :)
 
Call to Arms!

This is a Call to Arms!

Grab your pitchforks, hoes and shovels....we march tonight!

Bring you flaming torches and lets set-up the stake at which to burn this member who is obviously a heathen!

Look, report the member and be done with it.

We are all aware of the dangers of ragwort, but quite frankly, if the authorities don't give a flying fook, why the heck are people getting steamed up over it?
 
**Dandelion** said:
I think it would help if a few of you to read my responses in here before posting. I HAVE already contacted this member and asked for them to do something about it - I got a less than satisfactory response.
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Ask or tell? What kind of tone did you take with this person? That can make all the difference. Did you offer to help?
 
Just a thought if you have enough time to create a new account, stop and rake photos and reply to just about every post, why not offer your help and spend some time helping to clear their fields.

As a landowner whose property Borders a country park, this year our fields have been horrific, it is heart breaking that the council has allowed their fields to flower and seed which in turn have caused our fields to become a hotbed of ragwort infestation.

In the end it took a team of five of us to cut, bale and burn a week. We have since been topping and pulling ever since.

I can appreciate how our fields 'looked' a few weeks ago but with 30 acres to clear its not a quick or easy job.

I for one would have welcomed any outside help.
 
Devonshire dumpling said:
OK I will give a constructive reply after my initial response of annoyance, here are some ragwort facts for everyone to read:-

Although Ragworts can be a significant nuisance to horse keepers, these species are a very important source of nectar and pollen. About 150 species of insects, such as bees, flies and butterflies, visit the plant. Therefore, even it were possible, eradicating the plant is not a desirable option. We will have to find other ways to protect our livestock. There are no easy solutions to the Ragwort problem, but that doesn’t mean that there is nothing we can do.
The aim of this website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.
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Erm, C&P'd much

http://www.ragwort.jakobskruiskruid.com/

;)
 
So, genuine question for all the critics - What would you do if, after having contacted the owner of horses grazing in a ragwort filled field, nothing was done, what would you do ?

a) Nothing. Not my problem.
b) Offer to pull the whole lot because the owner can't be bothered. And repeat as necessary.
c) Highlight the problem on the forum the owner reads, but without naming and shaming ? Also highlighting the problem to more complacent owners whose pasture management is lax.
d) Quietly report to Natural England and hope they enforce the Weed Act ?

I am at a loss to understand the hostility to the OP who has assumed another username which will prevent the offender being identified ? Why no criticism of the owner whose horses are kept in a field full of ragwort ?

Confused.com.
 
Dobiegirl said:
When people say it does not harm other livestock how do you know, the thing with Ragwort it is culmative(sp) and the animals are sent for slaughter before its affect can be noticeable.

I remember quite a few years ago I think it was Your Horse did an article about Ragwort and a professor from Liverpool took a sample of his blood, pulled ragwort without gloves and took another blood test. The second blood test showed the toxins in his system this is why you have to wear gloves.

I think anyone who turns horses out in a field with ragwort is either very ignorant,lazy or both.
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Thank you!

I think the person with the 'constructive advice' works for the National Weed Protection Society. Their facts are very distorted and not at all representative of this horribly noxious plant which actually cannot even be disposed of safely. However it breaks down, inclding burning, it releases its deadly poison into the environment.

Final point, how on earth is it the OP's job to rid the field of it??? It could be construed as trespass or trespass with theft or damage to property - or some such public order law.

OP I hope you get some help on this one. Good for you for posting.

horserider you and me both. Sometimes, I just don't get this forum!
 
I thought it was the land owners/manager's responsibility to remove ragwort from where there are grazing amimals, you could try council or defra, environmental health ? or is that just people ?
 
Rather brilliantly DEFRA recommend keeping horses off pasture when it is wet. They suggest December to March. My horses would go ape if they weren't allowed to go out for three months. Also they suggest no bald patches are allowed to develop due to 'overgrazing'. God only know what those of us with fattys are meant to do. As usual there advice is absurd and impractical in many instances :rolleyes:
 
**Dandelion** said:
lol I don't expect that people 'have' to believe me. But then again this is the internet and probably 90% of what people write is made up. Anyway, I've seen the field and I know the poster. No I will not name them as I think that IS unfair - and can I ask how people are suppoed to 'lynch' someone when they don't know who they are? lol.
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Ur I dont think 90% is made up at all..just the odd screwy person on here. Most are quite sane (I think)!

Anyhow re Ragwort...speak to them if no action your next step is DEFRA. Natural England are about as natural as the centre of London. Defra have to act. Its that simple rather than getting into some spat on here. There is plenty about ragwort but little action.So off you go now. Good luck.
 
Dobiegirl said:
When people say it does not harm other livestock how do you know, the thing with Ragwort it is culmative(sp) and the animals are sent for slaughter before its affect can be noticeable.

I remember quite a few years ago I think it was Your Horse did an article about Ragwort and a professor from Liverpool took a sample of his blood, pulled ragwort without gloves and took another blood test. The second blood test showed the toxins in his system this is why you have to wear gloves.

I think anyone who turns horses out in a field with ragwort is either very ignorant,lazy or both.
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Years ago a farmer friend lost 2 calves from ragwort poisoning so it does affect other livestock, but as dg says probably it doesn't show in most before they go to slaughter.
That was Prof Knottenbelt at Liverpool Uni. I went to a talk by him and he spoke about that experiment, he certainly wouldn't say those of us who worry about ragwort are over reacting.
 
Blimey its never dull on here is it!!

OP - I do wonder as others have why you feel the need to post under a different name, but each to their own I suppose. However, I do suggest some sort of attitude realignement - some of your replies have been very childish, and will only get people's backs up, and less likely to take your post seriously.

Ragwort does make an important contribution to wildlife and bio-diversity - look at the cinnabar moth - which I believe is heading towards being endangered, its cattepilars are particularly fond of ragwort - and I also believe its been suggested they could be used to go some way to help control the plant.

However, on grazing pasture I cannot abide the stuff, we are lucky on our yard to only come accross it occasionally, use a ragfork to remove and continue happily. little and often consumption of ragwort can be as damaging over time as a large amount in one go. I dont think there is any excuse to have grazing where it has taken over - the odd plant here or there can happen very easily, and I bet most of us on here either own or livery on land where this is the case.

I echo others that have suggested DEFRA etc.

I have actually recently email the forestry commission about an area of the national forest that has become over-run with the stuff - the reply is that they currently feel they're fighting a loosing battle, trying to find weedkillers that are suitable for use (I had been considering trying to round up lots of volunteers and arm them with Ragforks - but the area to just so over-run and so huge i dont think we'd even make a dent in it!)
 
When I spoke to Natural England about Ragwort, they gave me the following info:-

1) It is NOT illegal to have Ragwort growing on your own land.

2) It only becomes an issue if there is a danger of it spreading to your own land.

3) If this is the case NE will send you a complaints pack.

4) They will only take action if the problem cannot be resolved by informal discussion between yourself and the landowner.
 
jesstickle said:
Rather brilliantly DEFRA recommend keeping horses off pasture when it is wet. They suggest December to March. My horses would go ape if they weren't allowed to go out for three months. Also they suggest no bald patches are allowed to develop due to 'overgrazing'. God only know what those of us with fattys are meant to do. As usual there advice is absurd and impractical in many instances :rolleyes:
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How it is Defra's fault that this is what you need to do to prevent it? Just because it is impractical doesn't make it poor advice!
 
This is something which literally keeps me awake some nights worrying.

I rent land which is surrounded by fields plastered in ragwort. Most of these fields have some horses in them but one of my neighbours is an absolute bl**dy disgrace.

She breeds Welsh b's and judges quite a lot apparantly but the state of her land (and her horses) is disgusting. Fields full of skinny, pot bellied things that are knee deep in ragwort. She has been reported to the RSPCA and after that particular pony was put out of its misery she - according to the elderly lady that lives by my field - went round all the neighbours she could find accusing them of reporting her and threatening them (with what I dont know!)

I spend a lot of my free time armed with a ragfork pulling up every tiny piece I can find but every time I drive past this womans land I feel like crying because in my mind I am basically condeming my horses to illness by housing them where I am. I cant move them due to my current financial position but even when I can afford to, I look around and I can see ragwort everywhere!

My paranoia has gotten so bad that i'm terrified about where to get hay/haylage from as I simple dont trust people when it comes to keeping their land ragwort free.
 
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