Ragwort Expert..I.D needed please!

ScratchyMooMoo

ScratchyMooMoo

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Help! :eek:
I've found quite a bit of yellow weed type stuff in the first bale of our new haylage we've opened. I know what normal ragwort looks like but I'm unsure about the other types such as the finer Oxford ragwort. The flower head on this stuff looks almost identical to the common ragwort when dried but the stems are much finer and there are less flower heads per stem and less leaves. Does anyone know if this is a type of ragwort? It could just be something like Hawkweed I guess but I'm just not sure.:confused: I've looked at loads of pictures on the internet and now I'm a little bit worried incase it is, it looks very similar if it isn't. We've just bought 20 large bales of it as well! :(

Hoping someone might be able to I.D. Please?? :) link to pics..

http://s1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff392/ScratchyMooMoo/
 
I *think* this is what I have always known as hairy ox-tongue. Reasons being the way the leaves are along the stem, the way it is all stemmy and spread out and the way it has twisted on dying (looks the same as some I had sprayed this year).

This is the best link I could find to explain what I mean:

http://chestofbooks.com/flora-plant...-Picris-Echoides-L-Bugloss-Picris-Bitter.html

My mare loves eating this!
 
I personally think that the flowering heads look different to what ragwort flowering heads look like. I would say if you are really unsure you can send the plant off for analysis - for piece of mind apart from anything else.
 
Aces_High said:
I personally think that the flowering heads look different to what ragwort flowering heads look like. I would say if you are really unsure you can send the plant off for analysis - for piece of mind apart from anything else.
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Thanks, do you know where I can send it? I did think about Dr Knottenbelt at Liverpool Uni. I read somewhere that he would look at it. I was wondering if Defra would have some sort of service too.
 
My instinct is no, its not - when was it cut as if early cut then almost defo not as these plants are quite mature. I'm no expert though - send it away to local agricultural college???
 
The finer ragwort does grow in my area.

The leaves look the right shape, but there are usually fewer stem branches.

This type of ragwort can grow to that size during the hay season.

Can only suggest analysis for peace of mind. Admit I wouldn't feed it without analysis.

If this is ragwort, then the hay is "not fit for purpose" and you are entitled to a refund. It costs about £50 if you need to do small claims court.
 
SpottedCat said:
My gut feeling is that isn't ragwort - but try here for specific ID, botany isn't one of my ecological specialisms! http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/identification?fromGateway=true
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Thanks guys I'll go and check that site

I emailed the pictures to Dr Knottenbelt this morning and just got a reply already! He's told me not to feed it until it's confirmed as it could be a type of ragwort. He's going to get his colleague in botany to take a look at it & let me know, at least I'll know for sure!
 
ScratchyMooMoo said:
Thanks, do you know where I can send it? I did think about Dr Knottenbelt at Liverpool Uni. I read somewhere that he would look at it. I was wondering if Defra would have some sort of service too.
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I would send it to my brother! Not much help but I am sure you could send him the plant and he'd look at it for you. Other than that I would send it to where my hay analysis is done as they would know or like you've mentioned call DEFRA or call/email Liverpool Uni and see what they say.
 
ScratchyMooMoo said:
Thanks guys I'll go and check that site

I emailed the pictures to Dr Knottenbelt this morning and just got a reply already! He's told me not to feed it until it's confirmed as it could be a type of ragwort. He's going to get his colleague in botany to take a look at it & let me know, at least I'll know for sure!
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Positive result :) Fingers crossed for you that it isn't ragwort though.
 
Prof Derek Knottenbelt is just brilliant! I emailed him years ago about sarcoids and he emailed me back regularly until we got to the bottom of the type of sarcoid (sent a pic) and pros and cons of treating. I hope you get the plant identified.
 
Bangagin said:
Prof Derek Knottenbelt is just brilliant! I emailed him years ago about sarcoids and he emailed me back regularly until we got to the bottom of the type of sarcoid (sent a pic) and pros and cons of treating. I hope you get the plant identified.
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Thanks, yes he seems such a nice person. I did a similar thing when my horse had a sarcoid many years ago and he was so helpful. He went out of his way to advise etc.
 
Update from Doctor Knottenbelt and his poisonous expert, it is definitely ragwort! Worth noting the pictures because it really does not look like your normal run of the mill common ragwort! Going to have to get rid of 20 large bales of the stuff now :mad:

Correspondence below..

Dear Rachel
Well, that goes to show!!! These bales are not horse feed!!! Whether they are cattle feed is another issue of course but in reality the whole batch really needs to be destroyed!
Hugh is an absolute expert in plant identification and a world authority on poisonous plants!

D


Hi Derek,

Yes, possibly Oxford ragwort, Senecio squalidus, or fen ragwort, S. aquaticus, but precise identification doesn't really matter as all Senecio species contain much the same alkaloids and seem, from reports, to me more or less equally toxic. Sorry, it is bad news for your correspondent. The plant is certainly a Senecio, there is no question of one of the many other similar Composite/Asteraceous genera such as Hieracium (hawkweeds), Crepis (hawksbeards - which can look very similar to Senecio spp.), etc.

Hope helpful.

Best wishes,

Hugh
 
wow- glad you found out and a huge learning curve for those who thought it wasnt- i'm going to be honest I was unsure what it was! You always see the flowers of live plants but not dry ones!
 
Exactly what I thought, definitely a steep learning curve for me. I didn't know there were so many different types of ragwort either! I will be very careful in the future when checking hay/haylage.
 
TBH I did think it was ragwort but am certainly no expert but glad we all know for sure now!

Deffo get your money back on the hay - not fit for purpose, if you have any problems go to Consumer Direct, they are great :D
 
I'm sorting this out as we speak, the supplier was through a friend so he was happy to take it back, they have horses too so they should understand. Lucky we bothered to check, we didn't think it was ragwort at first to be honest and they have already eaten half a bale. :eek: I've found at least 10 - 15 pieces in just half a bale! they may have eaten some but I'm assured this shouldn't be too much to worry about, it's continued exposure to it which will cause liver damage. If we'd fed the lot over winter then I think it might have been a different story.
 
Well done you for trusting your gut feeling... it makes you wonder doesn't it about how much could be out there with unsuspecting owners :(

On another note, it would be great to have all these photos and more that others have found in their hay as a pinned thread so show people what to look out for?
 
That's a good idea. I've spent quite a bit of time over the last few days trying to find decent pictures of ragwort varieties when dried, there are plenty of pictures of healthy living plants, but none of dried ones, or what to look for in your hay/haylage.
 
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