Ragwort Is it as bad as we're told it is?

We rented a field for a few of our horses 25 years ago and it had perhaps 50 plants on 10 acres.
There was plenty of grass so we assumed being bitter the horses would leave it alone, and sure enough, when we moved them a few weeks later the plants were still flowering.
We had no ragwort at home having carefully pulled every single stem out.
Sixmonths later we had a beautiful 2 year old gelded and he slowly over the course of 12 hours bled to death despite the vet's best efforts.
The Pm showed liver failure due to ragwort ingestion at some stage.
So I am afraid I say stuff that research , try sitting on the floor with a horse's head in your lap as it takes it's last breath.
Yes there is a similar plant growing round here in the hedges that appears like ragwort and isn't, but this farm gets systematically pulled of the vile stuff every single year and we are not prepared to take the risk.
To anyone reading this please think hard, do you want to risk your horses dying? Ours died because his blood thinned and it really was incredibly sad as he had such potential.
On another note, we lost an alpaca worth £3500 in a day after it nibbled just two rhodedendron leaves.. Needless to say, we never grazed animals in the orchard after that again...
 
Kokopelli said:
It sounds bad and I don't mean this as a stab at you but any tom, dick or harry can make a website and fill up with false facts etc. I'm not saying these facts are fake but there are enough stories in this thread alone that it kills horses!
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Yes every one can make a website, and can make fear.
It is better to look to the true. I also have lost a horse by liver failure, but it was no ragwort.
Laminitis and colic etc are a bigger problem than ragwort. Ragwort isn't a problem for human by skin absorption, ragwort is a problem by wrong information by press and a blamed plant for all that gets wrong.
Ragwot is poisonous, but not in the numbers like the press tells and create fear.
 
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EstherHegt said:
Yes every one can make a website, and can make fear.
It is better to look to the true. I also have lost a horse by liver failure, but it was no ragwort.
Laminitis and colic etc are a bigger problem than ragwort. Ragwort isn't a problem for human by skin absorption, ragwort is a problem by wrong information by press and a blamed plant for all that gets wrong.
Ragwot is poisonous, but not in the numbers like the press tells and create fear.
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So what about the horses who have died from ragwort poisoning on this thread alone?

Maybe it isn't such a big problem because most horse owners are responsible and get rid of it at first sight the proper way before it becomes a problem.

My vet (a very well renowned one) stresses how deadly ragwort is and he is backed up by many good vets. I am quite lucky that in my area there are some fabulous vets.
 
EstherHegt said:
Yes every one can make a website, and can make fear.
It is better to look to the true. I also have lost a horse by liver failure, but it was no ragwort.
Laminitis and colic etc are a bigger problem than ragwort. Ragwort isn't a problem for human by skin absorption, ragwort is a problem by wrong information by press and a blamed plant for all that gets wrong.
Ragwot is poisonous, but not in the numbers like the press tells and create fear.
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Ragwort doesn't kill huge numbers of horses because they don't like the taste. Hence they tend to avoid it when it is growing in their fields, unless they are very young or have nothing else to eat. That doesn't make it any less poisonous or any less dangerous to horses. If it gets into hay, as others have said, it is even more dangerous as horses will often eat it by accident. If I see it growing in the fields I take a shovel, dig it up and drop salt in the hole (I have no idea if this actually works, but I think it's an old remedy to make sure it can't grow back). Considering that we know it is poisonous and we know it can be lethal to horses, I don't see why anyone would want to take the risk. If I saw other poisonous plants in my horse's field I would also remove them. There isn't some great big ragwort conspiracy you know :confused:
 
How do they determine that the liver failure the horses died from was caused by ragwort? I am by no means saying it doesn't happen, I am just wondering what the signs are that it is caused by ragwort poisoning and not something else? I had a pony who developed photosensitisation (spl?!) and this was caused because he had some liver damage. However, this was due to him being given bute daily to ease his spavin. We stopped the bute and he improved. He didn't die due to liver failure either. Whether he would have down the line I don't know - I never got the chance to see.

I was always under the impression horses wouldn't choose to eat growing ragwort but did eat dry ragwort and that when it was worse - ie if in hay etc. I have also read somewhere that mares after foaling may choose to eat ragwort as it has some medicinal properties. I cannot think where I read that but it was quite recently.

We always pull up and burn the ragwort in our field. Some years we hardly get any but other years it seems to have a spurt. I wouldn't like to take the risk of the horses eating too much but as someone said I think there are probably many worse plants and worse diseases.

I understood that the liver can repair itself aswell so I get confused when people say the horse died from eating ragwort many years before hand. I would have thought if they'd been kept in ragwort free fields for a long enough period of time then the liver would be able to repair? Obviously I am no medic - I am guessing that maybe ragwort poisoning is like the damage caused by alcoholism - sclerosis of the liver? Is that correct?
 
OP- Have you ever seen a horse with ragwort poisoning? I've seen two. They both died in a long and horrible way, fitting and bashing their heads off the stable wall. Granted, both times their stupid owners should not have allowed them to graze in a bare field full of the stuff for several years, and they should have had them put down well before they got to the point they did. But that doesn't alter how horrific it is.

It's not a myth. Both of these cases were confirmed ragwort poisoning and it was heartbreaking to watch these beautiful, genuine horses quickly deteriorate into the sorry states they were.
 
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Serenity087 said:
For the record though, as someone who has had dealings with ragwort and UK vets, UK councillors, UK councils, UK agriculture, UK horse welfare charities and my own horse becoming seriously ill due to the affects of ragwort poisoning, I'm not going to have some Frog claim it's not as bad as we think.
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Can you explain me what frog claim is, I am not a native English spoken person but I think it means Frog is a racist name for a Frenchman?
 
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HashRouge said:
If I see it growing in the fields I take a shovel, dig it up and drop salt in the hole (I have no idea if this actually works, but I think it's an old remedy to make sure it can't grow back).
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It make it worse. You make bare spots and a new chance to germinate. It is really important to make sure the pasture is dense and have no open spots, good management is the key, that works much better than fear.. A ragfork is also not a very good one, all erudication has a risk. Salt isn't selective and kills the grass also.
I there are a few plants, you can cover them with a black plastic sack and leave them alone.
If you have much plants in te pasture then it is better to ask a ( I don't know the English word) a company who can look at your field and who can look what is wrong in the field.
On my website I have an article horsepastures prevention is easier then cure, that explains some about the biology of ragwort.
 
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EstherHegt said:
Can you explain me what frog claim is, I am not a native English spoken person but I think it means Frog is a racist name for a Frenchman?
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Looks like Ragwort isn't the only thing you're ignorant on.

I've worked so hard to save my own, and other horses, from the horrors of ragwort poisoning. Please, take your ignorance back to france and keep it there.
 
Serenity087 said:
Looks like Ragwort isn't the only thing you're ignorant on.

I've worked so hard to save my own, and other horses, from the horrors of ragwort poisoning. Please, take your ignorance back to france and keep it there.
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I am not from France, I did asked you a question about what you meaned what a frog claim is??
The aim of my website is to distinguish facts from myths by using a scientific approach based on research and advice from biologists, toxicologists, and other experts. In this way, we want to determine the nature and scale of the problem that Ragwort presents to our horses and other livestock. In this way, I would like to contribute to a solution of the Ragwort problem; as a horse lover AND as a Ragwort enthusiast.
 
I think is ragwort is herbe de St Jacques according to this french wiki it is poisonous for horses even french ones.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Séneçon_de_Jacob

MissTyc said:
Herbe de St Jacques sounds suspiciously like St John's Wort. Very similar to Ragwort in appearance, but not the same thing ... There are actually many species of Ragwort and some are highly toxic (the more purple the stem, the more toxic, but remember young stems are rarely purple even though they're just as toxic!) and others are mostly harmless (i.e. might be a bit irritant, if that). Not worth the risk, in my opinion!
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SO1 said:
I think is ragwort is herbe de St Jacques according to this french wiki it is poisonous for horses even french ones.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Séneçon_de_Jacob
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You are right,( always look at the bright side of live, I wanted to say, a quote of Monthy Python) but I mean the scientific name of the plant.
The new scientific name for ragwort is now Jacobaea vulgaris, the old name was Senecio jacobaea.
 
ladyt25 said:
How do they determine that the liver failure the horses died from was caused by ragwort? ... as it has some medicinal properties. ... I wouldn't like to take the risk of the horses eating too much but as someone said I think there are probably many worse plants and worse diseases.

I understood that the liver can repair itself aswell so I get confused when people say the horse died from eating ragwort many years before hand. I...
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The toxin in Ragwort destroy the actual structure of the liver so that it is unable to regenerate itself. The mare bit of eating it for medicinal properties is a bit far fetched shall we say . Also as I said above the toxins from the plant have been proven to enter the bloodstream via absorption through the skin so anyone pulling quantities of it by hand without gloves is taking a risk.

The plant may not be the most poisonous but it is nonetheless very dangerous and will Kill a horse. If there is not much else to eat or when the plant is tiny horses can accidentally eat it and some have been said to have gotten a taste for it. Here is a link to an E book about it.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0&ved=0CGUQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=ragwort&f=false
 
DragonSlayer said:
I knew someone once (horse owner!) who wouldn't pull it up because the butterflies would have nowhere to go....
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It's not so much butterflies but the cinnabar moth that lays it's eggs on the plant and the caterpillers ( brown and yellow banded) who eat the plant, i think i am right in saying they eat ragwort almost exclusivly(sp)
 
Where we used to live we were ragwort free until the new bypass came to town, so new top soil went in verges, from god knows where, and so we became inundated with it. Would clear it in groups and burn the lot. Now, we have it on one farm and not the other, the farm with it is near a road.....

I always double glove and we make sure we clear it before it goes to seed. If it had started to seed, as some would we would cut off the heads and gently bag them before wrestling with the rest of the plant. :)

We dont use pesticides of any sort so clear it as and when in the summer. :)

I dont care what these sites say, its not good. I have been wary of it for many years, long before the market of ragwort killers etc, as with probably many others :)

I do like butterflies but I like my ponies even more :)
 
bumblelion said:
Ragwort is the bain of my life!! I'v already sprayed paddocks and end up pulling it allthrough the summer!
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It is better to do some at pasture manegament, prevention is easier as cure.
Pulling is making bare spots. Fear makes stupid erudication methods.
If you know the plant, you can keep it out your pasture, if you believe the press you have an BIG problem.
 
Lazybee, haven't read all the other posts because I just had to reply immediately. Yes ragwort IS dangerous. And it IS a cumulative toxin. I strongly suggest you change your vets. Ragwort damages the liver and the type of damage it causes means that the liver cannot regenerate its function. So every further mouthful of ragwort the horse takes ADDS to the existing damage. The effects of liver damage are commonly unnoticed until about 70% of the liver is ruined. At 76% damage (and above) the damage IS FATAL and there ain't anything you can do about it except sit back and watch your horse go blind, stagger about in circles, stand desperately pressing its head into the wall, lose weight until it looks like a skeleton covered in skin, burn horribly so that it looks as if it's been thrown on a bonfire, scream, run madly, self harm and occasionally harm you too. 3 years ago I took on a rescued gipsy cob (Angel) who was so close to death from ragwort poisoning that the vets said pts was the only way to help her. Almost miraculously, she was saved by a massive team effort and although she can never regain her full liver function, she's fine with about 30% function and careful management. One of the key people on this team was Professor Derek Knottenbelt from Liverpool Uni. He is a world expert on ragwort poisoning in horses and his direct personal advice and information helped to save Angel's life. The man is a saint.

Perhaps your vets should invite him to France to hold a seminar.
 
Ragwort kills a minority of horses BECAUSE sensible owners pull the reagwort from their paddocks the moment it appears.

I've been in NZ for 24yrs now and even before I left Ragwort was the bane of every horse owners life.

Ask any pony club kid to name a poisonous plant and even from the 7yr olds the one they know really well is Ragwort.

If everyone pulled and burned their ragwort livestock would be much safer.

The old saying is very true 1 years seeds = 7years weeds.

The rosette prevents grass growing so for every ragwort plant grazing is reduced.

The liver does recover from many things that affect it but there are some things that it can't recover from - Ragwort damage - for humans excess paracetamol does the same thing.

I'd rather remove it and know my horses are safe than risk them getting sick.

The current trend for strip grazing and small areas increases the risk of the horse eating undesirable plants.

For those that don't like herbicides buy some cinnabar moths - check through Google for a supplier.
 
Having held a horse while it was shot due to ragwort poisoning, because the owner decided that ragwort wasn't poisonous, I can assure the OP it is deadly. Not only that, but the suffering a horse goes through when it has ragwort poisoning is horrific and PTS is the only option. If the OP is in any doubt, I suggest you watch one of Dr Knottenbelt's videos of horses in the final stages of ragwort poisoning - not for the fainthearted, or weak stomached though.
 
bryngelenponies said:
Ditto :( I'm getting ready to spray the stuff but like last year I know I'll spend aaages pulling up bits that sprout from nowhere during the warmer weather :(
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I believe Barrier H is made from Organic compounds? Spot spraying is the best way to approach it and I use my car to mark out lines to walk I just drive and follow the tracks, I have a systemic killer in one hand to deal with any docks and thistles and the ragwort spray in the other, then I walk the lines.

You have to admire the Shi**y plant it is a survivor, if you dig or pull then the tiniest root left in the soil and it regenerates. It is usually the same colour and height as the surrounding grass! Some subspecies plants the leaves look very different and in very young plants it is hard to tell as the leaves are not yet curly. The Barrier H spray kills it instantly BUT there can be some regeneration from the furthest root system so you have to be persistent.

You can place something like a cone over the plant give it a day or so then take the leaves away if you can't move the horses.

The moth is great but doesn't start really munching it until it's too late and flowers!

I don't believe the papers I believe the animals that have died so I won't give up and I make damn sure my neighbours keep their land free of it as well, it's just a case of asking nicely and if that doesn't work being firm.

I am always very sceptical of research, only last week the glass of wine is good for you research was turned on it's head by another piece of research and that says it isn't ??? So as far as I am concerned the research is not of interest, I will not take chances with this plant and my animals.
 
French ragwort is the same as english ragwort the reason most vets in france are not concerned is most horse die of lack of food rather than ragwort poisoning. To be truefull its what most french horses survive on. Some look after their horses well and some shouldnt own any dead or alive.
 
I havn't read all the replys but
have you ever seen a horse die of ragwort poisoning?
I have and it was awful :( We pulled it up religosly.
The horse had been rescude and they think he must have eatern loads when he was younger because he had been starved. :( Then they think there must have been a small amount in the hay which tiped him over the edge :( (So yes it is cumulative :( ) We had to burn all our hay.
Some owners seem to get away with doing nothing about it but I for one would never take the risk.
 
Serenity087 said:
Looks like Ragwort isn't the only thing you're ignorant on.

I've worked so hard to save my own, and other horses, from the horrors of ragwort poisoning. Please, take your ignorance back to france and keep it there.
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I think you'll find she/he is from Holland, not France. She/he was just asking a question as she/he is not familiar with the term Frog for a Frenchman, no need to get so unpleasant about it all is it?
 
traceyann said:
French ragwort is the same as english ragwort the reason most vets in france are not concerned is most horse die of lack of food rather than ragwort poisoning. To be truefull its what most french horses survive on. Some look after their horses well and some shouldnt own any dead or alive.
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Interesting....I live in France and in my region, Alsace, there is no ragwort whatsoever, so a bit of a sweeping statement don't you think? Where do you get your information from?
 
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