Rambling Update on Sore Horse

[sasquatch]

okay, so B was diagnosed with arthritis in his coffin joint in his left front 5 weeks ago. was given steroids that seemed to work for about 2 weeks, went lame when back in close enough to full work on saturday. he seems happy enough/sound enough in the field and on a straight line and after flexions.

vet was back out today, and I explained about how he had been doing well and then was lame again. vet saw him trotted up on a straight line and he was fine, flexed him and he seemed fine (he also added in a dramatic head toss and decided he was trotting up for badminton at one point but thankfully no standing to show how tall he is, handstands, or attempts to run for freedom - not that he does handstands or would show how tall he is when trotted up, but running for freedom is a party piece). then put him on the lunge and the lameness was noticeable although not anywhere near as bad as it had been first time vet was out and vet did comment on this too.

vet said he suspects its soft tissue damage, and that it would mean months out in the field and potentially an MRI which he would have to go to the south of Ireland for (and will cost a lot of money - insert forced smile emoji - and I have no box/way of transporting him and have no idea what he'd be like to travel that far) to see exactly what he's done.

vet nerve blocked him to see if that made any difference or if the lameness then swapped legs as he said the arthritis itself was fairly mild/not bad enough for it to be causing that amount of lameness and as there had been improvements with steroid injections he suspected there was something else going on. He also said usually with coffin joint arthritis you would see it in both front feet, not just one. with a nerve block, he looked 100% sound (!!!) on his right rein on hard ground, but was still off on his left although did look better than before (and also decided that he likes this vet, so wanted to stop and say hello when coming round to him and would not trot). vet has said as he is still very one sided and the lameness isn't then transferring to the other leg he thinks its most likely soft tissue damage.

found it quite interesting, when he'd first gone lame his feet were overdue so I wanted to get his feet done first to make sure it wasn't an issue relating to his feet. farrier had said it definitely wasn't his feet, and he also felt his legs for any unusual bumps or heat and couldn't find anything but had said there were that many small ligaments in that part of the leg/foot and you wouldn't know without an MRI if he'd damaged something there. I will have to tell my farrier next time I see him

I have exams for basically the whole of June, so he'll have the whole of June off and in the field as much as possible without letting him get too fat, and then one exams are over I can speak to vet and speak to insurance and see if the MRI would be worth it or not. I'm meant to be going to uni in september, so it might be worth getting the MRI done just to have a rough idea of the time scale for letting it all heal and if it will be 3-4 months, or as long as 6-8 months (or potentially longer) and then work out if it would be wise to take another year out or not.

so positive in that I'm not having to worry about retiring him just yet, or feeling guilty because he seemed so full of life and mentally wasn't slowing down or showing a lack of interest (at times he was too enthusiastic), but also not positive in that after 6 years of not needing a vet for anything other than his jabs, he potentially will wrack up about 6 years worth of vet bills

sorry for the rambling and long post, I needed to let it all out somewhere. yesterday I'd been looking at where I was going to retire him and starting to think about if I'd be able to afford another horse and trying to work out costs of having him retired and just feeling sick worrying about uni and what to do with him and feeling awful because I knew if he was only sound for light work/hacking, it was selfish of me to be thinking about wanting another horse just because he wouldn't be able to do more than just walk and a few trots. feeling a lot more positive now, so I just hope it isn't totally misplaced.

 

[ester]

9/10 hoof issues are soft tissue its just that most don't do the MRI, I didn't because it wasn't going to make a difference to the treatment plan and it is a lot of money.

If he were mine I would take his shoes off, turn him out in a big enough field that he gets plenty of movement, if you are around after exams until uni start doing the walking rehab and see how it goes (presumably you will have at least july/august) and see how it is going then as to whether you turn him away for winter or whether he is good enough to get your sharers back on him. The main complication to this plan is your location as you really do need to be walking on roads.

 

[sasquatch]

9/10 hoof issues are soft tissue its just that most don't do the MRI, I didn't because it wasn't going to make a difference to the treatment plan and it is a lot of money.

If he were mine I would take his shoes off, turn him out in a big enough field that he gets plenty of movement, if you are around after exams until uni start doing the walking rehab and see how it goes (presumably you will have at least july/august) and see how it is going then as to whether you turn him away for winter or whether he is good enough to get your sharers back on him. The main complication to this plan is your location as you really do need to be walking on roads.

I'm going to keep him turned out where he is until exams are over, there's a big field I can turn him out to on the yard with the retired horses after that but he'll need shoes off (his feet are due to be done at the end of June anyway) and I can worry about organising that later.

Vet has said it'll be months, not weeks so I think I'll be looking at him having most of summer off. I'm not going to worry with checking if insurance will cover the MRI until after exams and then will speak to vet depending on if they do or not. If insurance will cover it we may as well so I'll have a rough idea of how much time he needs off and can plan what to do with uni. I don't have sharers anymore, and the only road I could use would be the road that runs up past the yard to the car park for the nursing home, the roads near us are otherwise far too busy sadly. I'll speak to my boss today though, as she may know a field/somewhere that may suit him to go out too with road hacking that isn't too busy/dangerous.

 

[hopscotch bandit]

What I don't get is why your vet would

1) suggest months off work when he doesn't even have a diagnosis for your horse - personally I think this is disgraceful and this 'insight' would be better clarified once an actual correct diagnosis is made (which can surely be made without an MRI)
2) go straight to the suggestion of a very expensive MRI scan when an ultrasound may be more effective/quicker/damn sight cheaper
3) A comprehensive nerve block would be more effective at pinpointing which 'of many small ligaments in the leg' it could be - gosh its not rocket science. If my vet said an MRI was needed every time a horse had a possible soft tissue injury there would be no horses on the yard!

OP in the nicest possible way for goodness sake stop being no negative about 'retiring your horse'. There is no need to even be thinking this at this stage.

 

[ester]

Ultrasound cannot diagnose soft tissue issues in feet, it can just about manage to give you an image of some if you pare the frog down enough to get in- but really you are then risking making the horse sore. As such no, a diagnosis of soft tissue injury on a horse that has been blocked to the hoof is not possible without an expensive MRI and therefore sometimes the information from nerve blocks and hoof flight pattern have to be taken as a part diagnosis especially if your treatment/rehab plan will remain the same whichever bit of hoof soft tissue is affected. I think perhaps you are confused when vet says 'that bit of the leg' he is talking very low down and is correct in what he says.

Sasquatch that seems like a sensible plan, when I would have done insurance definitely only covered half an MRI and given we had an agreed plan than wouldn't change it would have been a pointless trip out apart from satisfyingly my curiosity. I'd agree it will be months just keep in mind that to a certain extent movement in walk does seem to help so even if it is encouraging him to walk around the field for slowly extending periods of time- but that is why I also suggest big field with other horses as that will encourage more wandering. Shoes off in small paddocks just doesn't seem to work (I tracked but obviously not always doable)

Definitely concentrate on exams for the time being it won't do him any harm

 

[Goldenstar]

I have been in a similar situation it was an older horse .
I did not have an MRI I boxed rested the horse without shoes for twelve weeks (on Danilon for a month ) then turned out for three months I kept the feet well trimmed
I then brought him back to work without shoes for three months then shod him and he went back to his job for another two years until another issue ended his working life .
If was time consuming but a cheap way forward .

 

[hopscotch bandit]

I think perhaps you are confused when vet says 'that bit of the leg' he is talking very low down and is correct in what he says.

QUOTE]
Sorry this confused me too.

 

[sasquatch]

I have been in a similar situation it was an older horse .
I did not have an MRI I boxed rested the horse without shoes for twelve weeks (on Danilon for a month ) then turned out for three months I kept the feet well trimmed
I then brought him back to work without shoes for three months then shod him and he went back to his job for another two years until another issue ended his working life .
If was time consuming but a cheap way forward .

if the insurance won't cover the MRI, he'll just be going out to the big retirement/holiday field for a few months instead anyway (and if the insurance does agree to cover the MRI, he'll most likely still be going out to the same field anyway!) . he'll be with 4-5 other horses and have just spoken to YO who's said it's fine for him to go up for a few months as long as he gets on with the others who're already out (which is fair enough). Well aware it'll be time consuming, but definitely worth it if he comes sound again. He has to have his shoes off to go out with them anyway so when he's coming back into work I may just keep them off anyway as I know barefoot can be better for horses with coffin joint arthritis too.

What I don't get is why your vet would

1) suggest months off work when he doesn't even have a diagnosis for your horse - personally I think this is disgraceful and this 'insight' would be better clarified once an actual correct diagnosis is made (which can surely be made without an MRI)
2) go straight to the suggestion of a very expensive MRI scan when an ultrasound may be more effective/quicker/damn sight cheaper
3) A comprehensive nerve block would be more effective at pinpointing which 'of many small ligaments in the leg' it could be - gosh its not rocket science. If my vet said an MRI was needed every time a horse had a possible soft tissue injury there would be no horses on the yard!

OP in the nicest possible way for goodness sake stop being no negative about 'retiring your horse'. There is no need to even be thinking this at this stage.

vet has seen horse 4/5 weeks ago for initial lameness and diagnosed and treated arthritis in his coffin joint - I am not a vet, and when he went lame again in the same leg that was treated for arthritis naturally assumed that the arthritis was the issue and the treatment hasn't/wasn't working or that it was only working to the extent he would be sound enough for hacking/light work - and as he can be a bit fizzy/excitable and is more of a scary hacker retirement looked like the best option if the arthritis was still the issue. when he was initially seen, he was nerve blocked and x-rayed so it's not as if vet has seen soreness and jumped into the MRI, he has treated the most obvious issue (arthritis) and whilst horse responded to the treatment for arthritis, there's something else causing the lameness and that is now what is going to be treated. Vet did ask about insurance before he said that I could get an MRI to see exactly what he'd done, but did say that treatment will be putting him out to the field for several months with or without the MRI.

I think perhaps you are confused when vet says 'that bit of the leg' he is talking very low down and is correct in what he says.

Sasquatch that seems like a sensible plan, when I would have done insurance definitely only covered half an MRI and given we had an agreed plan than wouldn't change it would have been a pointless trip out apart from satisfyingly my curiosity. I'd agree it will be months just keep in mind that to a certain extent movement in walk does seem to help so even if it is encouraging him to walk around the field for slowly extending periods of time- but that is why I also suggest big field with other horses as that will encourage more wandering. Shoes off in small paddocks just doesn't seem to work (I tracked but obviously not always doable)

Definitely concentrate on exams for the time being it won't do him any harm

was actually the farrier who said about where the ligaments are! I can't think of how else to describe it, but I know it's more the hoof than the actual leg but at the same time isn't quite just the hoof? I can picture it as farrier showed me, but can't think how to describe it lol.

once exams are over I'll be able to sort getting his shoes off and worming him and anything else that'll need done before he goes to the big retirement field. atm he's going out to a smaller field and usually staying in over night (although he's had a few nights he's stayed out) and I have a friend who has said she can check on him and sort him out if I need her too whilst I have exams on.

feel a bit sorry for B as he will be leaving his new pals and his girlfriends but it won't be forever and I'm sure they'll all get over it

 

[hopscotch bandit]

vet has seen horse 4/5 weeks ago for initial lameness and diagnosed and treated arthritis in his coffin joint - I am not a vet, and when he went lame again in the same leg that was treated for arthritis naturally assumed that the arthritis was the issue and the treatment hasn't/wasn't working or that it was only working to the extent he would be sound enough for hacking/light work - and as he can be a bit fizzy/excitable and is more of a scary hacker retirement looked like the best option if the arthritis was still the issue. when he was initially seen, he was nerve blocked and x-rayed so it's not as if vet has seen soreness and jumped into the MRI, he has treated the most obvious issue (arthritis) and whilst horse responded to the treatment for arthritis, there's something else causing the lameness and that is now what is going to be treated. Vet did ask about insurance before he said that I could get an MRI to see exactly what he'd done, but did say that treatment will be putting him out to the field for several months with or without the MRI.

Ok I understand now, sorry your OP was a little unclear. There are ligaments that run from the leg into the foot - digital sesamoidean ligaments for example and the DDFT so I wonder if this is what your vet was mentioning.

 

[Zuzzie]

This was my experience:

Coffin joint arthritis in the right forefoot. Tried steroid injections (three sessions) which although were miraculous to start with, they gradually became less effective. Tried all sorts of other treatment (and special shoes) which were unsuccessful. Finally, advised to bute and keep moving. The best thing for arthritis is to keep the horse moving. The worst thing you can do is box rest. I can state this categorically because a year or so later my horse was diagnosed with collateral ligament damage by MRI at the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons . Horse uninsured so had to find the money for the MRI. Was told to box rest for THREE months. By the time he was ready to come out of the box he was completely crippled. He could barely turn when being lead. The vet actually asked my friend standing next to me if it was true that he had been rested for 3 months - he could not believe the state he was in. Eventually, with time, he lost the stiffness and is back hacking out.

My advice is this, an MRI will show up soft tissue damage and if it does there is only one answer and that is rest. So what is the point of spending all that money to be told to rest the horse? If your horse has arthritis he will be better off being turned out 24/7 where he can keep moving and the fact that he is out 24/7 he will be less inclined to go nuts and do further damage.

Time is a great healer,

 

[skint1]

I'm in a similar position, coffin joint arthritis front left and/or suspected soft tissue injury in the hoof. He had 2 months off on field rest and came back a lot better but lately he's been slightly off again, particularly noticeable at trot, my vet is saying to keep him turned out and take him for gentle walking hacks but I am wondering now if it might be better to turn him away again but for longer.

He has no heat or swelling on any limb, nor in the hoof and hasn't for the whole of this period of time.

 

[sjp1]

Not navicular or navicular syndrome? Did they actually nerve block for feet?

 

[sasquatch]

Not navicular or navicular syndrome? Did they actually nerve block for feet?

definitely not navicular, when it was x-rayed and arthritis was picked up vet said there was no rotation of navicular or pedal bone. Not sure if the first time the vet came, he was nerve blocked for his feet specifically, but second time vet was out I believe he was as it was the foot that seemed to be the issue. He was very one sided, after nerve block in most recent visit looked sound going one way when lunged on hard ground, going the other way looked much better but was still off.

I'm in a similar position, coffin joint arthritis front left and/or suspected soft tissue injury in the hoof. He had 2 months off on field rest and came back a lot better but lately he's been slightly off again, particularly noticeable at trot, my vet is saying to keep him turned out and take him for gentle walking hacks but I am wondering now if it might be better to turn him away again but for longer.

He has no heat or swelling on any limb, nor in the hoof and hasn't for the whole of this period of time.

Yep, sounds like we have something very similar going on. I was told it would be months of rest, walking in hand or walking hacks weren't mentioned at all. Did your horse get any steroid injections?

Mine did seem a lot better after injections as well as rest (he'd had about 3/4 weeks off before vet came out, as first I'd wanted to get feet done which took just over a week to get farrier out for, then had physio check him over the start of the week after his feet were done and then vet was booked in which took about another week for him to come out) he seemed sound after injections when he managed to escape and trot across the concrete yard, across the road to the care home (it's on site, not a 'proper' road) and was found grazing half way up the driveway to the back yard. Took a while to come back into work sound, but seemed okay until canter was introduced. He's looking much better than before, but still is off in trot too.

Re. MRI - will only be going ahead if insurance cover it, and only so I know time wise how long I'll most likely be looking at as I am meant to be going to uni.

Over the past few days I've thought he's looked a lot lamer. He came in from the field looking sore on his good leg (imo) but it's hard to tell if he's just tripping or is being awkward as most of the time he seems to track up. He came in looking sore last week, but seemed to take a bad step and then was tracking up okay so I'm not sure if it is that he's started tripping or he's managed to stand on a stone when he's walking in and that's why he looks sore as when he's out in the field he appears fine.

Not having a horse to ride over summer is eating away at me already, and my first exam is now done so one less to worry about, 8 left to go.

 

[skint1]

No steroid injections because he's prone to laminitis and it was felt the risk is too great. I don't mind whether I can ride him or not but I am slightly concerned that he'd be better off not ridden and I am riding him albeit lightly and only a few times a week

Mine has been looking pretty good the last few days, seems to like the softer ground, but it's hard to tell, like you say it's an off step here and there, I drive myself nuts looking at him sometimes. He likes to wind me up by bucking and farting off up the field too and I am running after him to see if he's dog lame after, which he never is. Horses huh

 

[sasquatch]

No steroid injections because he's prone to laminitis and it was felt the risk is too great. I don't mind whether I can ride him or not but I am slightly concerned that he'd be better off not ridden and I am riding him albeit lightly and only a few times a week

Mine has been looking pretty good the last few days, seems to like the softer ground, but it's hard to tell, like you say it's an off step here and there, I drive myself nuts looking at him sometimes. He likes to wind me up by bucking and farting off up the field too and I am running after him to see if he's dog lame after, which he never is. Horses huh

It's very hard to tell, an off step could well be that he's just tripped over a stone or just simply bobbed his head as he walks. He looks 100% in the field when deciding he won't be caught, and his field has got very wet and boggy especially around the gate. Was also showing off his fancy trot with his buddy the dressage horse the other day, and looked very sound.

Insurance has said we are covered for the MRI, but need to make a claim and have it approved first. Luckily, vet is coming out for another horse on friday and whilst I still have exams, I only have 2 next week (although still have 3 this week).

I think we'll go for the MRI, as whilst I'm meant to be going to uni in September, if B needs 6 months in the field I may have to defer my place for a year as mum can't afford to pay for him (as we are keeping our stable so have the retainer fee as well as the cost of keeping him in the field) and I'll need to let my boss know to see if she can keep me on too. I know I'll be 21 this summer, still not at uni if I take a year out, but I've had a lot of health problems and I am still young - I can try and get an NVQ or do a vocational qualification if I have to take another year out.