Random broncing - what would you do?

MissP

MissP

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My horse is usually good as gold, but once every month or two, he has a random broncing fit that doesn't stop til I come off. Some people have told me this is just high spirits or him being naughty (he's a 7 year old conny). To be careful, I have had a physio and a chiro check his back - they can find no problems. I've also had 2 saddlers check his saddle (the first I wasn't sure about as she fitted a new dressage saddle badly for me so i got another opinion). I'm told his GP fits fine - which is what I'm using now. I have had a couple of instructors sit on him, and he was fine (typical!) - but he only does this broncing rarely, so it's hard to catch a bad day! Or maybe he got more confidence from them than he does from me.

The problem is, it's really affected my confidence now. I feel he's sensed that and is now 'threatening' to go into a bronc more often. Maybe to get out of work or because there is something he is genuiely not happy about. The broncs don't escalate from grumpy behaviour - they come out of nowhere but sometimes when he's asked to bend more. It's like he forgets that I'm me and goes into "there's a lion on me" panic. He is fine going from trot to canter, and there are no signs he has any serious back problem. My instructor thinks he may be sensitive and slightly cold backed, because he's more inclined to 'freak out' in the morning or when it's cold.

My question is. Does this sound familar? If you've had similar behaviour from your horse, was it just them being young and testing the boundaries, or was there an underlying problem?

My saddler has suggested he might not get on with the GP for some reason and to maybe hire a treeless saddle to see whether it alters his way of going (he has quite a big shoulder that is set back, so a treeless might give him extra freedom). So would be great to hear from anyone with experience of treeless saddles too.

Thanks!
Miss P
 
I don't believe it is ever random, it is just that you haven't yet found the common factor.
Where, when, what pace, what were you just doing, what was he wearing, were there other environmental factors such as other horses, cows over the hedge etc etc etc. If it is when he is asked for a bend, could it be teeth/bit/your leg on a particular spot, is it always a bend to off or near side......................a treeless saddle might eliminate (or point to) the saddle as a reason, it could be the positioning of the billets (big shoulders don't do well with points billets for example) or the position of the girth buckles when you apply leg to bend him. Or he may not be supple enough to bend as you have asked.
There is always a trigger of some sort.
 
The little horse we had that did this - apart from being cold-backed and capable of spooking for England - used to take off and buck if his saddle shifted at all. Rather than overtighten the girth we used to ride him with a limpet pad under the saddle. It worked for him.
 
Thanks Jill. Some helpful ideas :) I don't think it is teeth as he did it once when I was girthing and had a lose rein (that wasn't fun - ended up chucked over the school fence!) - the girth buckles and saddle billets are defo potentials though. Thank you
 
I know you have had a back person but ks is a potential and can only be detected on x ray. Might be a good investment, especially if you have insurance that will contribute to the cost.
And points digging in (from a points billet) will cause problems if your weight is over the front of the saddle, and maybe you sit more forward than your instructor? You are going to have to be a detective :)
 
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Hi Ponydi
That's interesting. I have thought it could be related to a shift in my weight. I wonder why it doesn't happen more often then, but maybe it needs to be couple with him being in a certain mood or something else not feeling right to him. Thanks!
 
One of my horses went through a phase of this, I know what you mean about knocking your confidence, he was a similar age to yours. My instructor just kept saying I needed to ride him through it (I also had all the usual checks done and redone). I bought an RStor having seen it recommended on here. It worked well for me and I continued to use it for hacking for a good while after the bucking problem. My horse got to the point where he couldn't be bothered to waste the energy trying to get me off any more. Before I bought the RStor, I used a piece of leather connected to the D rings on my saddle, but lost confidence in that approach when one of the D rings flew off during a particularly big buck! Also a sticky gel seat cover helps a lot.
 
Ah yes - i forgot to say I have had a vet out too. They couldn't find a cause. At that point, he was possibly 1/10 lame on his near fore but they said it was so subtle it looked like a weakness rather than anything else and to continue his work.
 
I don't think bucking until you fall off is random, if he was just feeling in high spirits or being cheeky he would stop if you managed to get his head up rather than always continuing until you came off, a physio/ chiro cannot rule out KS and it could also be many other things causing pain that they are not qualified to diagnose.

Unless he was like it regularly I don't see this as a saddle issue, the fact he has been worse in the cold suggests pain, cold backed is usually just a term when no diagnosis has been made, I would get a good vet involved before he destroys your confidence or worse.

Just seen your last post regarding 1/10 th lame, that is enough to look into and a vet that said it was due to weakness would fill me with no faith.
 
The late chesnut git used to do this. It settled down to once a year, but he had a 100% record of ditching the rider (usually me, but also two pros) when he did it.

He was checked by vets and a chiropractor (who declared him to be the soundest horse that he'd seen in a year). Knowing what I know now, I should have pushed for x rays, but this was a few years ago, and no one suggested getting them done.

He was still sound as a pound when PTS age 25, but I retired him 10 years before that after suffering another lot of concussion and broken ribs. I'd owned him since he was a foal.

Good luck. I hope you find an easy way to sort your lad's antics.
 
I had a 5 yr old connie x a couple of years ago that was prone to putting in big random bucks, usually to get out of work, he was a lazy little git. They came out of nowhere, I really kicked him on after he put them in, I didnt let him get me off, made him gallop forward, he did get out of it. I didnt like him though, he cribbed which really annoyed me so maybe he had ulcers, but as he got over the bucking I think he was just being lazy.
 
EQUIDAE said:
I'd second vet check/xrays. Always a vet for diagnosis, ostoe/physion after for treatment and rehab.
Click to expand...

This, two.of my horses have had chiro/physio for years and had no problem according to them one both have KS, one diagnosed three years ago the other two weeks ago. Chiro etc can't tell you backs are fine.

Would get lameness work up at vets with scoping for ulcers, back/hock xrays and sacroiliac assessment.
 
I had one that was prone to random bronking. I didn't keep him as he was only on loan to me. It was quite a while ago but I had been told that he had cracked his head open when they backed him, so I wonder whether he had something funny going on there.
He did it with other people as well as me, in all situations - hacking, schooling etc - with different saddles, bits etc.

If I still had him, I think I'd have gone down the KS investigations route. It was odd that there appeared to be no reason behind it so I'd hazard a guess that it was something painful that came and went fleetingly.
I was fortunate that I learnt to really relax and sit it out (he made me laugh in the end), the only time he tipped me off was going downhill when I had ducked for a tree.

Good luck OP.
 
There's nothing I loath more than horses that bronc .
Of the two I have had in the recent past one went on to develop KS and the other ( the worse ) did it from fear he had been rough Irish broke and then rushed , we took him back to basics and now he's a sweet horse.
There's always a reason you need to tease it out , I don't think horses who truly bronc ,in opposed to buck which they can do for fun ,do it for no reason.
 
Been there OP! I really feel for you! My boy started when we got separated from another horse at the beginning of a hack - long, annoying story!! Anyway, it really unnerved me and eventually he was doing it all the time. Had back and teeth checked and consulted the vet and when all came back fine packed him off to naughty horse school with Dan Wilson in Bodmin. Dan worked wonders and horse improved dramatically, however, my nerve was totally destroyed and even now I have to work up to riding this particular horse as if I am backing him from scratch. Nothing to do with him - other people have ridden him with no problems.

Anyway, that's not the point I was going to make. Munchie always had loose droppings from the day I had him until he went to stay at Dan's. Then the combination of hard work and sparse moorland grass (as opposed to Beef farm grass and no work) sorted his guts out - and his temperament. Since then, if he has too much grass his droppings become loose and he gets grumpy.

Incidentally, Munchie is now trying his hoof at working in harness, and so far so good! I figured we both needed a fresh start away from the pressures of riding.
 
My mare has done exactly this - good as gold the majority of the time but occasionally something would trigger a massive reaction (major broncing!). I've come off her every time she's done this and twice I've broken bones (last time it was my hip). We've never really got going because of it as it's been a circle of random broncing, investigation, potential issue identified, re-work and then random broncing (whole process taking months each time). She's had back and pelvis scanned, work ups, saddler, physio, feed changed etc. We found ulcers after her last episode - low grade but she's not a stressy type so this and the behaviour suggests some underlying pain. I'm now due to start riding again in a month or so and am again considering where I go next with her - she will go away to be assessed, vet and physio brought in again - but I won't sell her (how could I with her history) and I won't rider her myself so I may just need to admit defeat and retire her to be a big pet. Luckily she's easy to keep.
 
My mare had seemingly random broncing fits and I had all sorts of reasons, until I realised they coincided with grass flushes, post - escape rides (from restricted grazing), or me walking the fence back in autumn. She's VERY sensitive to the grazing and is now restricted year round. Still have the odd hiccup when she's sensitive, but at least I know what's going on and can act accordingly. I've had to stop walking the fence back again today!
 
I would get his back xrayed. He sounds just like a friend of mines. Fine out in a large field or arena, but when asked to bend in a smaller area / 20m circle his back would go up. He had kissing spines.
 
UPDATE
Louie hasn't done the broncing for nearly 2 years. I never got to the bottom of it but here are my hunches in case anyone finds helpful
1. Being fresh - he was always more likely to do this if it was first thing or a show
2. Grass - he tended to have a couple of weeks in sping and autumn he was worst
3. Saddle - i have a new saddler who says the wintec was wrong - v shape heasplates will pinch a wide shouldered horse. U shape better
4. I think he was broken harshly as he always reacted to right hand moving/ appearing in his vision when ridden

He's also now been in work a few years so has a much better topline. I always have in my mind to check for KS if things go downhill though.

My tips to anyone in a similar situation are
1. Check back and tack
2. Turn out or lunge before riding if grass is coming through or it's a cold day
3. Tack up a good 15 mins before riding or use massage pad. To warm up back muscles
4. Walk in hand for a minute before mounting at show

...he's a lot less sensitive (or less of a sod?) Now so don't need to do all these things now but it helped for a while!
 
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