Rant about selling older horses

For children there used to be a rule about age of child and pony cannot remember what it is now.

On the opposite end of the scale novice riders having green horses drives me just as mad. Maybe I am just showing my age and am stuck in a time warp of how horses used to be 12 years ago!
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Sorry I dont agree. The vast majority of people who buy horses generally have their welfare at heart. I bought a 16 yr old advanced event horse. He happily competes at open prenovice with me and he has given me huge amounts of confidence.
It is down to the seller to ensure their horse has gone to a good home.

So would you say you shouldnt sell a difficult horse either..because that is far more likely to end up in an unsuitable home in my opinion.

If I ever sold him (which I wont), it would be to someone I know or who could be vouched for.
 
You can buy a 10 - 12 year old that's been there and done it. Anyone who gets 20K for a horse 18+ is doing blooming well. I agree insurance isn't always an issue but personally I can't see what people get out of buying a twenty year old instead of a ten year old except a lower price.
 
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You can buy a 10 - 12 year old that's been there and done it. Anyone who gets 20K for a horse 18+ is doing blooming well. I agree insurance isn't always an issue but personally I can't see what people get out of buying a twenty year old instead of a ten year old except a lower price.

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There's a big differenc between a 10 year old and a 20 year old in attitude, manners and experience, when many horses, particularly in dressage, don't retire from competition until their late teens.
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no,sorry, I actually think selling is better than loaning in a lot of cases as then the pony is not a disposable commodity. who is to say the sellers are better owners than the buyers???
in 2 yrs they will be 18..so?
 
lec I absolutely agree 100%
Too many people shirk responsibility for their own selfish ends. "But hes too old to event/hunt/show/whatever anymore" well tough, hes been good to you now bloodywell look after him in his old age I say. Its a throw away society .
 
my horse is 15 and I am selling him - he makes me nervous - I feel really bad about it but I can't afford to keep him and another horse - my hobby costs a lot and I would rather have a horse I can have fun on instead of something that I don't click with - so would you rather I had him PTS instead of finding a new home for him???

Things aren't so black and white in life.
 
You assume the owner can afford/is able to have the horse back if and when the loanee doesnt want it anymore.
We sold dol when she was 17/18, because i was going to Australia and it wasnt fair for her to have the pressure of Young Riders if i stayed. What would have happened if i was still in Australia and the loanee sent her back?
She would have come home, and not done anything because mum cannot ride her! It was far better for her to be in a competitive yet easy home, for those years untill we payed to get her back!
However having her back means i cannot have another. Until we are on our own yard, as paying for two gets rather expensive and who looks after her when we are away competing with the other. This is a sacrifice we have made and in the long run wil work out as we are breeding from her. But many other people are not able/do not want to to that!
I do think its sad when people sell older horses when they have given so much, but if it is a career/business very often you cannot afford to be sentimental.
Just for the record Dol is 21 and will be with me till the day she dies. However looking at her charging around in the field yesterday that will be a very long time!!

K x
 
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See I think 16 has to be taken into consideration as in 2 years they will be 18. I agree 16 is not that old but its that people just do not think about it. I think seeing that ad for a 20 year has triggered this off in me.

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Blimey, best not look at the H&H classifieds then - there's a 26 year old for sale.
 
In my sphere, at 10 - 12 years old, for the horse i have, i would have been paying possibly 50k upwards. GP level horses of that age dont go to mere amateurs, they stay in professional homes; generally because we cant afford them

At 20 years old those horses tend to be retiring out of top level competition (varies slightly of course) and some become suitable for and affordable for young riders or amateurs with a lot of ambition.

Many ex GP / grade A horses go to people to teach them, to help them get into the competitive scene. In return, they (hopefully) get a home for life or are loaned and go back to their old owners for full retirement

Sure, thats not the case in all older horses sales but you cant just stereotype like that.

You cant see what we'd get out of buying a 20 year old grand prix horse over a 10 year old?

And referring back to loaning. This isnt the lovely fluffy option people think. I loaned my mare who id had from being 4 years old because she was no longer riding sound. She went as a companion to a lady who does small scale breeding. Said mare has disappeared off the face of the earth and we're doing everything in our power to find out what the hell happened to her.
 
I dont think 16 is old anymore and selling a 16 yearold isnt irrisponsible.
selling a 20 yearold might be.

Peoples circumstances change to the point where they have to sell horses and to me haveing a perfectly healthy 16yearold PTS is not fair on the horse. That horse can have at least 10 more years of activity. particularly as a hack or general pc pony.
Also some horses/ponies dont want to retire. ive got one, he's 26 he sulks untill you take him out and will stand and kick the gate untill you bring him in and tack him up. When we tried to retire he he lost condition very quickly and his whole temprement changed.

Loaning isnt an option for some people, what if the loaners give it back and your in no position financially to get have it back. also the amount of loans ive done with older horses and the horse has come back in a disgusting state. People dont look after stuff as well, if it isnt thier own.

A friend of mine had an old pony go missing whilst on loan, they still havent found him. He was put out on loan when they emmigrated to australia, they came back a year later to find the pony had been sold whilst on loan. the loanee had forged the owners signature on the transfer of ownership papers.

so to put is shortly, no i dont think selling a 16 yearold is irrisponsible but selling a 20 yearold might be depends on the circumastances, most golden oldies do change hands but they do it by word of mouth rather then by adverts. If you find a suitable home for an oldie then i dont see the problem with it.

I have more of a problem with indescriminate breeding of crap ponies, they are the ones most likely to end up on the meat wagon.
Or people selling problem horses, or horses with soundness problems.
i particularly hate seeing people advertiseing 16hh 10 yearold horses as companions only, very few people want a companion that size, most want the little pony that takes very little mainatance those horses are the ones that the dealers get hold of or endup emmaciated on a meat wagon.
 
I agree with you 100% Lec. If you have an old/knackered/bonkers horse and you can't guarantee its future welfare by keeping it or loaning it someone you know and trust, then shoot it.

Dodgy dealers and the meat trade don't magic these horses out of thin air, they get them from the average joe not thinking about what realistically might happen when they sell their horse.
 
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16? 18? thats hardly old....

and while a horse may no longer be up to what its current owner wants, it may be happier just hacking at weekends with a different owner

Glad Im not your horse, id be done for
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I think if you were my horse you would be having a wonderful life! When the day comes for the end as your health is awful and its not fair to keep you alive or I cannot guarrantee your future you would be shot by someone trusted and go to the hunt kennels.
 
Fair play, dressage horses are silly money, have longer careers, take longer to train and have less wear and tear in general.

I'm a bit bitter about this because some old friends of mine were very keen to encourage their liveries to sell their healthy but sometimes sharp young horses to buy ex-eventers from a local event yard. The horses were no longer up to eventing but the liveries would try them, adore them because they were experienced and well schooled and buy them, only for them to bring them home and never be able to ride them due to lameness. Most were walking vet bills that weren't up to any job at all. I'd never advise anyone to buy a horse loaded with mileage put on by somebody else.

Likewise I think its irresponsible and cheeky of sellers to take money for horses after they have had the use of them during their best years. Those horses are their responsibility and I think they owe them more than fobbing them off as well as the misery it brings to those people purchasing marvellous but not sound horses. Not that this is always what happens when people take on older horses but generally I think loaning useful old horses out means the owner retains that responsibility.
 
exactly owners have different needs, personally i like a quiet hack and thats it , im always attracted to older horses, and 16 is not at all old, i would never dream of putting a 16 yr old to sleep thats just selfish and crazy, unless its sick, my old gelding was pts at 37 and thats due to his teeth, [he had none]
 
I both agree and disagree with you, lec.

I can completely understand what you mean when you say it is sad that older horses get passed on; as someone who, until present horse, has always had golden oldies, I couldnt possibly imagine having actually sold any of them on. However, although most of them were 'loaned' to us, it may as well be described as ownership because the previous owner no longer had anything to do with them once they had come to us. A good example is my first pony, Pippa; she was 26 when we bought her - and yes, I did say bought! - for, I believe, just over £1000. She was renowned in our area for being 'The Perfect Pony'; she had taught numerous children to ride, and she too had actually had a bad start in life. We bought her because she was much coveted, even at such an old age, and the family we bought her from wanted to be certain she would have a home for life - which was certain, for she had both myself and my 5-years-younger brother to teach! The family also knew us well, and were happy that they would be able to remain involved in Pippa's life. Now I appreciate that it seems strange to want to pay so much for such an old pony, but if the animal in question is of sufficient physical or emotional value to a person, is it so bad that they should want to feel that there is no question of ownership? I would have hated us to have loaned Pippa, only for her to be taken back 3 years later for, say, a grandchild/niece to have.

On the other hand, Shandy was 18 when we got her; no money changed hands, but the owner made it quite clear that she was happy for us to be regarded as the owners, and for us to taken any decisions necessary regarding her life, whereabouts or well being. At the age of 26, we actually re-loaned Shandy out under similar circumstances - she is still alive and well now, enjoying a fabulous retirement in a home that would be more suited to her, in this stage of her life, than ours.

So, at risk of sounding like a school essay, I would conclude that whether a sale of an older horse/pony is right or wrong depends on many factors; the horse itself, the purpose it is being sought for, the attitude of the current owners and the intentions of the would-be buyers. I dont believe it is possible to draw a clear distinction here!

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Theres a big difference between selling an old horse to 'get rid' because its useless or has health issues that someone cant be bothered with, and selling to a decent home for someone else to learn on if the horse/pony is still sound and able to work(providing the home is suitable)Selling just to get rid because of age is awful tho
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I bought one of mine when he was 18. He'll be 20 this year. In his prime he was a champion endurance horse and reserve on the GB team at the Europeans. I bought him as a hack and to do a lower level endurance and I feel privileged to have had the opportunity to have him in my life - he's a very special horse. It would be sad for people like me - and in the other disciplines - if older schoolmasters weren't available to buy. And horses do keep going longer - in fact Pet Plan recently upped their age limit for full cover (accident and illness) to 25 years old (for horses insured with them before they reach 20). So even the insurance companies are recognising that older horses can have an active and important role.

However I do find it sad when you see very cheap older horses and ponies for sale. I'm not sure what you do about it though. The Amersham case has brought into sharp focus the horrible fate that can befall any horse we sell, of whatever age.
 
I bought a 25/26 yo mare a few years back. I'm glad her owner did sell her to me, we had some good times together.

She was retired for 2 months when senility started to make her dangerous to ride at 29, and was pts when it became apparent that she wouldn't be happy in retirement.

At all times I had her, her best interests were the driving factors for any decisions I made. If she hadn't been sold to me, perhaps things may have ended differently, or earlier. I'm comfortable that she had a good happy life with me, and went on a sunny morning with her face buried in a bucket of mix and carrots.

I'd do it again too.
 
sorry but i really disagree with horses being pts because of there age!! i would never do such a thing! abby the horse we have just taken on is 16 yo and she rides like a 4 yo. why is it so wrong for older horses to be sold i think you are very very wrong in saying they should be loaned and if not loan put to sleep!!!
 
I think it all depends on peoples reasons for selling, i own a perfectly healthy 16 yr old who has very little miles on the clock, no one thinks she is the age she is as she looks so well and certainly doesn't behave like a 16 yr old, would it be wrong of me to want to sell her if my situation changed? I don't think it would, i would much rather i picked a home and owner for her carefully and she went on and had many happy years doing a job than having her PTS.
If however i said i was selling her because of her age although there is nothing wrong with her - that could IMO be classed as irresponsible. As it happens i'm not ever selling her, and i'm looking forward to caring for her into old age right up until making the last decision for her.
Older horses do have a market as long as the owner takes the time to find a suitable home for those horses in or nearing their golden years. Owners that aren't responsible are always going to try and make a buck nevermind what happens to the horse afterwards, i don't think that will ever change!
 
I wouldn't sell an older horse (over 20) but I have bought and been given older horses. There is no way these horses will leave my ownership. They will continue to live here until there is no life left in them. I want to be in control of when and how they go and I most certainly don't want them to end up in an auction/rescue situation which is why I made this decision for the ones I have when I first took them on.
 
I agree with the problem of future ownership - but then this applies to any horse, no matter what age. How can you guarantee the up-and-coming five year old wont be sold on eventually by the next owner into the wrong hands and end up sick, injured or ruined?

A friend sold her navicular tb mare as a broodmare only, in good faith to someone who showed her round the new premises, including the stallion she was to be put to; all seemed well. 48 hours later she got a phone call asking what level dressage she was competing at... the man had taken her straight to a sale, left her there overnight and then sold her as a competition horse. This mare was 11.

At the end of the day, I don't believe it's an age thing. Certainly the British passport system needs tightening up though.
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I wouldn't sell an older horse (over 20) but I have bought and been given older horses. There is no way these horses will leave my ownership. They will continue to live here until there is no life left in them. I want to be in control of when and how they go and I most certainly don't want them to end up in an auction/rescue situation which is why I made this decision for the ones I have when I first took them on.

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Tia, you like us, are in the position where we can do that, finances and other things allow us to keep the older horse until the end.
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What happens if the owner is not in that position? Or their circumstances change?
SHould the horse be put down even if it is capable of living a healthy life?

K x

ETS the end bit of that post wasnt aimed at you, just the thread in particular.
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Well a number of scenarios jump out at me here. Firstly, if I wasn't in the position I am then there is no way I would have taken these old horses on in the first place. I am, so I did, but I did seriously take into account that these oldies will remain with me till the end of their days. Our situation won't change in that time.

If I couldn't guarantee an old horse a home for life then I wouldn't take it in the first place.

If it was a horse that I had owned for years and it just happened to be older now and my circumstances changed for the worse then I would loan the horse to close friends if the horse still had use left in it.

If the horse was unsound or no use as a companion horse then I would consider having it put to sleep at home rather than pass it onto the market where it's future would be fairly certain
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I agree insurance isn't always an issue but personally I can't see what people get out of buying a twenty year old instead of a ten year old except a lower price.

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But so what even if people do want to buy a horse for a lower price? Not everyone has an unlimited budget to purchase the horse of their dreams, but that doesn't mean you can't afford to look after the horse, or provide for its care.

I disagree with the OP, although I see the point. I do think it is a shame when people just get rid of an older horse and don't care, but I don't think there is anything wrong with selling an oldie. Bad things can happen no matter what horse you sell, if it is 4 or 24 it can end up send to auction - but I really think that so long as you are careful about the home you pick, there is nothing wrong with selling an older horse on.

I personally thing it is more of a "throwaway society" thing to put a healthy horse down because it no longer does what you want or you can't keep it - why not give someone else the chance to love it and cherish it til the end?
 
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