Rant - affiliated riders competing in restricted unaffilated classes

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I came 3rd in 2 unaffiliated restricted (i.e not won before) novice dressage classes today. One of my fellow liveries told me afterwards that the winner of 1 of the restricted novice classes was a former multiple national champion in another (related) discipline and competes at affilated medium level.

I am happy with my position and think we acquitted ourselves well, but feel that I have been "done over". The letter of the rules state that she can compete, but I think that the spirit says that she should not.

What do you all think?
 
Was she riding the horse that has won all of the awards? If so then she would have to ride hor's concours surely.

If not then I can't see anything wrong with it. Young novice horses have to start somewhere.
 
If the rules allow it-nothing wrong with it.
In PC events, I have evented up to senior level and sj up to intermediate.
A few weeks ago I took my pony in a 60cm PC class, didn't win, far from it, had a refusal! The other riders were all 12 and under. Am I unfair then?
By the time we got to the eighty, the other riders were still 14 and under, I cam second, still unfair?
I think not.
 
Agree with you drjames. To take part in an unaffiliated dressage competition is a massive step for some riders, and it is disheartening to have the first prize taken by an affiliated rider. If they are good enough to compete at medium they are good enough to take their young horses to an affiliated competition or they should compete HC at an unaffiliated.
 
Thank you!

I don't expect to see that Frankie Dettori turned up to a hunt point-to-point and take 1st prize. If he felt that he needed to give the experience to a young horse, he would respect the other PTP competitors and go HC.

I don't turn up to medium level affiliated shows and make an @r$e/nuisance of myself. I expect people of that level to do me the same courtesy.
 
I don't agree!

A young horse would not be ready to go straight in at affiliated at it's first competition. It needs time to get used to its surroundings and gain experiance.

Just because people ride affiliated doesn't mean they should take any horse affiliated. Thats like expecting a SJ to take a 4year old horse to jump round its first course at British Noive height (85cm). Not all horses are ready to do that.
 
Ah so you are concerned purely about the riders - sorry I was looking at it from the young horses perspective.
 
Yeh thats madness!!! Why shouldn't they compete on a young horse as everyone else does???? Just because they have a good horse at a higher level does not mean that their young horse will be able to compete at that level, and why should they go H/C (especially in this situation when it appears this affiliated rider only has one horse up to medium level, hardly an olympic rider)
It's not pot hunting its getting a young horse experience in the competition circuit. So because i compete my affiliated horse up to discovery BSJA, does that mean i then can't take the 5yo (who rides more like a 4yo) in an unaffiliated 2foot competition without going H/C?? Do share why???
Sounds more like spoilt grapes to me. I don't expect special treatment being an experienced affiliated rider so i don't see why unaffiliated riders expect special treatment too? Ridiculous. Just gives you something more to aim for. If it was a case of pot hunting then yes but not if on a young horse. Ridiculous.
 
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Ah so you are concerned purely about the riders - sorry I was looking at it from the young horses perspective.

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I have no problem with experts bringing young horses in at scum (i.e. my) level HC for the experience. I do have a problem with experienced riders entering a competition to get an "easy" trophy (did I forget to mention that this comp gave entry to the Ride and Relax Regional Champs, which is intended for my level?).
 
But why??? If it was a professional rider who rides competitivley for a living then yes i would understand why you would think this, but from what you said this person only has 1 other horse at medium level - has probably worked VERY hard to get to that level. Just because they are affiliated does NOT mean they cannot any longer compete unaffiliated on another horse.

May i point out there is a huge difference between being affiliated and being a professional???
 
Let me tell you, no trophy is ever "easy" on a youngster!
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I am assuming you are implying that she was infact riding a youngster.
 
Sour grapes to me.

There is no reason why this person shouldn't have a chance to win. That person probably didn't know how the horse was going to react.

It's like me saying professional riders should not be allowed to take their young horses in British Novice classes with me because they have more skill to get them round.
 
Well, i compete my younger/ inexperienced horses in BSJA classes, and regularly come up agains the likes of William Funnell / Peter Charles / Duncan Inglis / et all..

Surely, if they are riding horses that are eligible to compete in the classes then they have every right to be there !?

I for one take it as an incentive to do well against them
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My two-penneth....

At my local RC which runs unaffliated dressage, the restricted prelims are based on RIDER ability. If you have ever come 1st/2nd in any dressage comp then you are not allowed to do the class, you go in at open prelim. Now, I don't see why experienced riders can't take their young horses out, but it does really pee me off when they enter the restricted when they are actually not allowed!!!

I take my young horse out to dressage there, and I am inxperienced and so is he! So I think it is only fair that a experienced rider takes their young horse in the open. Obviously if the rules are more flexible then fine.

But I can assure you I hope to be moving up to open as soon as I can. I believe in progression!!!!
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I can see it from your perspective, but if I'm honest I don't see much wrong with it. I have competed my little TB up to elementary but my OH would still qualify to ride restricted in a RC comp at prelim as he has no BD points on the horse. I have made him ride open and he was thoroughly p'd off - it is sot of the same thing really. However if it was a young inexperienced horse she was riding then sorry, there's nothing wrong with it. The horse she competed to medium? Did she bring it on to that level or did she buy a "made" horse or a schoolmaster. This could actually be her first attempt on bringing on a young horse and in all fairness it would have been a big thing for her to come out today and compete as she did. I think listening to some people can lead to false stories - maybe you don't have the full facts of the situation?
 
Yes but thats affiliated and there are young horse classes for those with young talented horses to go affilliated. I have been to many competitions and quite honestly gone open as I am Affiliated or had been or the horse did not meet the rules for being restricted even when I moved counties and there was no way that people would know what level he was. It is just pot hunting. At Medstead last year Kayleigh and I saw a beautiful warmblood warming up for the prelim and he was doing half pass and shoulder in to warm up. They were not HC and won the class with a score 20% more than the 2nd. How can you feel gratified with that its just wrong. I am honest and if I want to give the horse some experience I go HC and besides in BD now you can go Training instead so there is no need for Affiliated riders to lie about being affiliated just to get some experience.
 
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Well, i compete my younger/ inexperienced horses in BSJA classes, and regularly come up agains the likes of William Funnell / Peter Charles / Duncan Inglis / et all..

Surely, if they are riding horses that are eligible to compete in the classes then they have every right to be there !?

I for one take it as an incentive to do well against them
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I have to agree with Rambo, when we compete Junior BSJA its Whitaker Whitaker Whitaker down the line up, its our challenge to get one of places from them!

As long as the rider and horse were eligible for the class I see no problem. If you see someone riding that isn't eligible for a class you can put your money where your mouth is and log an objection even at RC level, you get your money back if your proved right!

We very often take our youngsters unaffilated show jumping for their first few shows, it gives them show experience and lets us know if they are ready to go affilated. When I was in RCs there was alway affiliated riders and sometime affialted horses competing in classes that they shouldn't, I just took great pleasure in the times I managed to beat them, makes you feel real good when you beat someone that competes at alot higher level than you.

I fully plan that my 4 year old stressage horse goes to unaffiliated dressage for his first few shows before attempting anything affilated.
 
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I don't agree!

A young horse would not be ready to go straight in at affiliated at it's first competition. It needs time to get used to its surroundings and gain experiance.

Just because people ride affiliated doesn't mean they should take any horse affiliated. Thats like expecting a SJ to take a 4year old horse to jump round its first course at British Noive height (85cm). Not all horses are ready to do that.

[/ QUOTE ] I'm with the OP on this I'm afraid. Prelim is prelim, the marks may be more difficult to obtain affiliated, but there is no reason why a young horse should be more upset doing prelim Affiliated than Unaffiliated. Prelim classes are after all intended for young and/or inexperienced horses. Also since Affiliated competitions are so often much better organised than Unaffiliated, they will very often be a much more relaxed environment for a young horse!
 
i entered a local riding club dressage event a couple of weeks ago. I looked at the entries and saw a well known local rider in the same class as me (this rider had been placed 3rd in a fairly big BE event a month ago!) needless to say I thought I wouldnt beat her.

Admittidly, the horse she was on was a youngster, and my horse is a little older, but hes not very good, and neither am I. Looked at results and I was well impressed that I was only three points behind her in the test!
 
Am I right in thinking the Ride & Relax Champs are the new name for the UK Chaser series?

If so the rules are quite clear, affiliated riders cannot compete in the dressage on HORSES that are registered with BE or BD, for the show jumping affiliated riders may compete but only on horses not registered with BE or BSJA.

therefore if the person at your competition was riding a young/unregistered horse she had every right to be there.
 
Looking at a few of the unaffiliated shows schedules that I am thinking of taking my boy to this summer to start him off, the show organisers seem to be starting to restrict classes a bit more. A few of them are saying horse or rider not to have won previously - I feel slightly the same that both my horse and I have not been able to get out before now because of illnesses so we are complete novices at the showing side of things and so it makes me feel a bit worried that I could be up against someone very successful and not have a hope of getting anywhere despite all of my hard work over the last 3 years. I guess that's life!
 
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I'm with the OP on this I'm afraid. Prelim is prelim, the marks may be more difficult to obtain affiliated, but there is no reason why a young horse should be more upset doing prelim Affiliated than Unaffiliated. Prelim classes are after all intended for young and/or inexperienced horses. Also since Affiliated competitions are so often much better organised than Unaffiliated, they will very often be a much more relaxed environment for a young horse!


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If she has competed at medium affiliated then she wont be allowed to compete at prelim affiliated. The horse might not be ready for affil novice and all marks will go on the horses record. If she is wanting to sell the horse then this wont look good.

So long as she isnt riding the horse that has competed at medium then I dont see the problem. Unless you know the background of the horse I dont think you are in a position to critisize.
 
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I'm with the OP on this I'm afraid. Prelim is prelim, the marks may be more difficult to obtain affiliated, but there is no reason why a young horse should be more upset doing prelim Affiliated than Unaffiliated. Prelim classes are after all intended for young and/or inexperienced horses. Also since Affiliated competitions are so often much better organised than Unaffiliated, they will very often be a much more relaxed environment for a young horse!


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If she has competed at medium affiliated then she wont be allowed to compete at prelim affiliated. The horse might not be ready for affil novice and all marks will go on the horses record. If she is wanting to sell the horse then this wont look good.

So long as she isnt riding the horse that has competed at medium then I dont see the problem. Unless you know the background of the horse I dont think you are in a position to critisize.

[/ QUOTE ] I didn't realise that. It makes sense. Thanks for the explanation
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If she has competed at medium affiliated then she wont be allowed to compete at prelim affiliated. The horse might not be ready for affil novice and all marks will go on the horses record. If she is wanting to sell the horse then this wont look good.
So long as she isnt riding the horse that has competed at medium then I dont see the problem. Unless you know the background of the horse I dont think you are in a position to critisize.

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I agree their is probably a reason for an affilated person to be competing unaffilated other than trophy hunting.

In my experience of RC level, I have actually found that unaffilated Prelims are stiffer competition than affilated prelim at times, because you get the seasoned RCers that just compete RC all their life and they know the prelim tests inside out, I know when I was in RC that their were people that competed the same level year in year out and they were probably good enough to go affililated but were obviously were happy competing at that level, this sort of person is more of a trophy hunter IMO than an affilated person on a youngster, because this person is not trying to progress whereas the affilated person is probably their for a reason which is most likely to do with performance rather than trophy hunting, my motivation for taking youngsters unaffilated first is not to trophy hunt its because we want our youngster to be getting a certain percentage in their test before we pay our money and go affiliated. I couldn't care about the trophy or rosettes they are a nice bonus but I am the sort of person that cares more about the way my horse performs and what marks he getting and the comments and what we can improve rather than whether they came 1st or last. As long as the horse tries and you feel they did a good test, thats whats more important in my book.
When we are show jumping we are always trying to get our double clears rather than trying to win classes with our younger horses. On our older more experienced horses we do go for it but they are at a much higher standard than a youngster.
I really don't see the problem as long as no one is breaking any rules but its been an interesting topic and I found it interesting what other peoples opinions are, its interesting that someone automatically thinks someone is trophy hunting but I think the motivation for most affiliated riders to do unaffiliated is much more innocent than people realise (i'm not saying this is everyone because their are trophy hunters out there!)
 
here here agree with comment about season RCers doing the same level every year. I knew of quite a few that would win their section prelim or novice every year and were too frightened to move up as they would not have so much possiblity of winning (they thought).
 
A good friend of mine went to a RC show recently to watch not to ride that we were involved with over 10 years ago and she couldn't believe how many people were still doing the same thing as 10 years ago.
My instructor once said something to me that i've always remember, never be afraid to be a small fish in the ocean don't get stuck being a big fish in a small pond. I try to live by it with the horses, I personally think you are better to aim high and have possibilities than to aim low and have no possibilities.
 
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