Rant - Highways Agency and planning app for stables and school

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case895

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I submitted a planning application last Monday for stables and a school.

My drainage contractor was here today fixing a dodgy field drain and told me when I got home today that when he was working in front of the house and noticed a lady standing in the middle of my drive with a clipboard. He went over to ask who she was looking for and she said nobody. He told her that she was on private property and asked who she was. After asking this again a second time, she admitted that she was from the Highways Agency and had come to assess the likely traffic impact of my planning application.

He laughed and said that he (i.e. me) only has 1 horse trailer and it is already here, so no change.

I have no objection to them visiting, but she made no attempt to notify us in advance, trespassed on the shared private drive and on our private drive (total of a 1/4 mile), and was reluctant to state her business when confronted.

We are 1/2 a mile from the nearest public road and a private dwelling, so irrelevant to the Highways Agency. We are very unhappy that somebody was wandering around our property when we were at work, and it was just good fortune that our drainage contractor (also a farmer) happened to be here today.

I just wish I was here today when this happened as I would have accessed my big metal cabinet before I went to ask her her business...
 
Something not right here. The highways agency have no role in this. I would check it out. Contact the planning office to check if they sent someone out .
 
I had the same. My neighbour (2 fields away) put in an objection to my manege as the planners had termed it a riding school. He was worried about whether the drains would cope with all the people coming to ride :p

I think your highways agency is the same sort of thing. Unhorsey planners!

When I explained it was to allow me to ride on a surface in the winter rather than in the field, he withdrew his objection. It made me laugh as we aren't even on the drains - we've got a cesspit!
 
I would expect that it is not the Highways Agency she's from but the Highways department from your local council you submitted the planning application to. I am sure if you phoned them up they would be able to confirm that this was the case. It's quite normal for them to visit, objecting to a planning application on transport grounds is quite common, so they come out and assess the potential impact. In our area, they seem to approve practically everything.
 
It will have been a planning officer. They did that when our neighbour put in planning permission - wandered up my dad's drive checking on the impact. They didn't ask then either, and they lied, saying I didn't need to oppose the plans as it was 90% going to be refused. The plans were passed (it belonged to the council, and we now have a huge climbing frame opposite our house, which we should have opposed). When we built our stables, the planning came back as "no livery allowed as it would cause extra traffic on the highway", so perhaps they're thinking along those lines?
 
Highways Agency only deals with motorways and major a roads so she can't have been from there(unless your drive opens onto M1 or something!). Sounds a bit dodgy if you ask me!
 
A commercial/competition venue is currently being built 1/4 m away which will have a major effect on traffic on a nearby A road, so I can believe HA would get involved. They do not having planning permission, but started construction anyway.
 
Highways agency only deal with their managed roads, ie trunk roads or motorways. Your highways department from the local council is more likely...
 
I was curious about this and as my B-I-L is fairly high up in the Highways Agency, I asked him if this would be someone from them to go check. He just laughed and said "No way."
Absolutely nothing to do with the HA.
I would call the council and lodge a complaint that you were not informed of a pending visit and that when asked who she was she lied when she said Highways Agency.
 
tescoexpress said:
A commercial/competition venue is currently being built 1/4 m away which will have a major effect on traffic on a nearby A road, so I can believe HA would get involved. They do not having planning permission, but started construction anyway.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they were nosing about that then? Like I said, when they were wandering about on our land they were checking the impact of someone else's project...
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I was curious about this and as my B-I-L is fairly high up in the Highways Agency, I asked him if this would be someone from them to go check. He just laughed and said "No way."
Absolutely nothing to do with the HA.
I would call the council and lodge a complaint that you were not informed of a pending visit and that when asked who she was she lied when she said Highways Agency.
Click to expand...

She didn't necessarily lie I expect the contractor just misinterpreted what she said.

They may also consider impact of lorry movements during construction not just the later usage although it seems odd for the size of development.

I don't really understand why people get so het up about planning its there on the whole to protect you as much as it might seem to be a PITA when it's your application.
 
It won't have been someone from the highways agency - they only deal with trunk roads (A roads and motorways).

It will more likely have been someone from the local highway authority (your county council). They will be reviewing the planning application and looking at things like a) whether your driveway is wide enough to accommodate the increased traffic b) whether your driveway can accommodate two lorries/trailers passing each other c) whether the junction onto the road has good visibility and appropriate kerb radii for lorries to turn etc.

As part of your application submission, did you provide info on the likely use/likely traffic generation? If not they will assume a high amount of traffic associated with horse owners coming/going and horses going to and from competitions etc.
 
Blythwind said:
It won't have been someone from the highways agency - they only deal with trunk roads (A roads and motorways).

It will more likely have been someone from the local highway authority (your county council). They will be reviewing the planning application and looking at things like a) whether your driveway is wide enough to accommodate the increased traffic b) whether your driveway can accommodate two lorries/trailers passing each other c) whether the junction onto the road has good visibility and appropriate kerb radii for lorries to turn etc.

As part of your application submission, did you provide info on the likely use/likely traffic generation? If not they will assume a high amount of traffic associated with horse owners coming/going and horses going to and from competitions etc.
Click to expand...
What horse owners? What lorries and trailers? What competitions?
 
If you haven't said the stables will be for your sole use, they may assume it will operate like a livery yard or riding school. They will therefore assume that there will be horse owners coming and going as well as horses being transported etc. Non horsey highway officers struggle to understand the difference between private, livery and riding schools. Did you specify likely vehicle movements in your submission?
 
It is private use only and the application clearly states that. To do anything else would require a change of use for my house (stables will be in the garden). No mention was made of vehicle movements as there won't be any. I only have 1 horse not 10!
 
Foxhunter49 said:
I was curious about this and as my B-I-L is fairly high up in the Highways Agency, I asked him if this would be someone from them to go check. He just laughed and said "No way."
Absolutely nothing to do with the HA.
I would call the council and lodge a complaint that you were not informed of a pending visit and that when asked who she was she lied when she said Highways Agency.
Click to expand...

I agree and I would speak to your local councillor ASAP mine was great when we had an issue.
 
tescoexpress said:
It is private use only and the application clearly states that. To do anything else would require a change of use for my house (stables will be in the garden). No mention was made of vehicle movements as there won't be any. I only have 1 horse not 10!
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Where do you live ?
I know Surrey can be a nightmare .
Planners very enormously from area to area the fuss over my school was very silly they couldnot grasp the difference between a riding school and a surface for private use. no one would tell us what we needed to do but we got there in the end.
One bit of advice is ask about and find a lawyer locally who specialises in planning issues then if you do have trouble you are ready and go staight to the right person for advice.
 
My brother is a civil engineer!

He says for definite the HA would be interested in ANY business planning application!!! So someone somewhere has got it muddled-hence the visit!

The HA are responsible for ALL tarmac in the UK and the movements.

It is shame that the person who visited did not identify themselves and showed you their ID card.

Now what you should be doing is writing to the planning officer who is handling your case and the Parish Council inviting them to your place if you haven't one already in the pre planning stages. Showing them that it is for your own private use only!

One can only assume you haven't chatted with your local Parish Council hence the visits! The PC's can be and are a little power crazy but often defer to the District Council when they are not happy about an application.

So I would open your doors! Inviting them in, showing it is for your own horse and that you can then school at home, thus reducing traffic when you aren't going out 3 times a week to your local Equestrian Centre hiring their school!!!

Also confirm that work HAS NOT started! That a contractor was repairing something! I would not admit the drainage as my friend had her school rejected on 'drainage' grounds and did not appeal which was a massive pain when it came to selling the property! Never knew failed planning applications have an impact on selling but they do!

I do hope you can get it sorted asap so you can enjoy your own horses at home!
 
There isn't a parish council. The app went to the borough council.

The contractor is fixing the collapsed and clogged field drains. I took photos of water pi$$ing out of the broken pipes when they dug them out, in case they challenged that I had started the works.
 
It will have been the highways agency we have got planning permission for a small livery yard and the HA were a nightmare. They initially refused our application (meaning we did not get planning as they have to ok all applications) but would not meet us and discuss it just kept turning up without telling us and taking photos :mad: In the end we went to our MP who made them meet with us we had a discussion (make sure they know exactly what you are doing in our case they hadn't realised it would be extra car traffic mostly they thought it would be horseboxes coming and going all day every day:rolleyes:). That was the end of the problem they withdrew their objection and we got planning on appeal. They are not easy to work with but you need them on your side to get planning so tread carefully!
 
Had a similar issue. Only twigged when the planner (who I found wandering around my stable yard over 1/2 mile from public road) asked where all the people who came to ride would park. They just don't read the application properly
 
planners always ask `highways` for their comments.
they need putting right (in the nicest possible way ;) ) that because your horse is stabled does not mean more visits/coming and goings than if the horse lived in a field,you would still check on it/visit just the same.

planners are supposed to find in favour unless there is a good reason not to but in reality they are barstewards and want to stop every1 doing everything.
 
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