Rant! Why don't people handle their youngstock!

Enfys

Enfys

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What an utter waste of a morning and a tankful of gas:mad: Went to collect an 8 month old for a new Boarder, as a favour. Last time - ever.

Got there, poor little thing didn't even know how to lead, wouldn't come out of the paddock, seller was as much use as a chocolate fireguard (terrified of being trodden on), two other ponies galloping around distracting everyone, no yard, no way to back up to a barn without dismantlng the fence - in fact basically in an ungated garden on the side of a busy Highway.

Came home empty and really fed up. Didn't see why should I stress out a pony that wasn't mine, risk injuring myself and everyone else, or even worse losing the damn animal on the Highway, causing an accident and having to phone up and tell owner her precious baby is now roadkill.

Why the heck can't some (note, not all) people spend a little bit of time teaching the basics? It makes life easier for everyone, not least the poor little foal.

OK, rant over, just wanted to let off steam.
 
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Totally agree! It INFURIATES me when people breed and then dont touch the foals. People buy weanlings unhandled and expect them to be weaned, halter broken, loaded, travelled and often castrated all in a few days. God help the person who has to break in those that arent handled until 2/3 years. I HATE HATE HATE it too!

eta- the poor horses too. Its much less stressful for them if they are handled earlier
 
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Erm - I have a foal that is hopefully going at the end of the month. I can groom her, pick up feet - she has been trimmed by farrier twice, microchipped, rug on but can I get her to lead. Like hell no. I have no help up the yard and the YO and her friend are worse than useless. Last time I asked them to help they were so rough with her she went up and straight over backwards!

I am trying to get her sorted though but without some assitance it is very very difficult.

Fi
 
Totally agree, my foal was handled from day 1 daily. When I see these unhandled weanlings it makes my blood boil, why breed them and then not touch them and expect farriers, vets etc to have to try and deal with them :(
 
similar story ish, went to veiw (qutie expensive colt) to find it in the field with loads of others, can you imagine watching and trying to see how straight or not it is or actually any thing at all!! Prospective buyer asked if it could be led and walked or trotted on a headcollar, reply was NO he will just stand and plant himself, with no facilities to see it loose

<<<< "oh im sorry, ok not to worry heres my XXXX pounds" "sorry to bother you, will back the lorry up pop him on and be out of your way!!!" = eeeerrrrrrmmm NOOOOOT!!

another time went to look at look at a yearling travelled 2.5 hours to get there, so 5 hour round trip,, and find it lobbed a leg!!! not just a bit!!!!! They must have known but let me travel up there and hoped i wouldnt see it!!! You honestly couldnt miss it!!!

Sellers go on about time wasters but what about the pooor buyers!!!!!!!!

sorry mini rant over!!
 
I do absolutely agree with what everyone has said here. However, IF you can get your hands on an unhandled youngster, without the trauma of having to get it out of a field full over excited horses, dismantling fences and without risk to life and limb etc....it's better to get one thats never been touched than one that's been clumsily and ruinously handled by numpty idiotic and ignorant owner/breeder.
 
Oh the Joys!
Try a 17hh 4 year old TB that hasn't been touched (literally!) and needs backed and ridden away in less than 6 weeks. We seem to get a lot of them where I work!
The youngstock we breed is shown as foals in hand(and yonugstock classes from then on). When they are 3/4 and are backed it is so easy, so is clipping etc. So easy to load as well, as the first time he travelled he was with his mum so its not scary. My horse was shown as a foal, and when you take him out competing he is so chilled and easy to do. Even if people just do a little with them it does help!
 
Grief! What happens when they get an injury in the field? My 4 month old broke his fetlock in the field and the vet managed to do a full examination and inject him IV in the field. He was so lame he kept lying down and couldn't bare any weight - he was soooo bad. But so well behaved for the vet - but then he'd been handled twice daily from birth!
 
Went to view a well bred yearling last year. He was in a stable with a head collar on but it was difficult to get near him and we were warned not to make any sudden movements! He was clearly very frightened and the owner admitted he had spent the winter in a large barn with other youngstock but unhandled.

I asked how, if I bought him, we would be able to get him into my lorry. The answer was "don't worry he'll go in" in such a way that I just knew it would not be nice to watch. I explained that we had never owned such a young horse but the seller was completely unbothered.

We decided to keep looking. We bought (for a lot less money:D) a lovely 8 month old who led, loaded, picked his feet up and was very easy to do. He is still a darling.

I was shocked that someone was happy to sell such a young unhandled horse to "novice" owners. (We are not novices - had horses for 15 years but nothing under 4 previously).
 
Totally agree.
I bought a lovely big yearling 4 yrs ago. I saw her twice, and both times she was with other horses. She was trotted up with another horse too, but I didn't think anything of it. She was dropped off here, put in stable to relax for a bit, then I tried leading her up the field to go out with my yearling. I had a hat, gloves and lunge line, just in case... she went about 50 yards then just panicked, started throwing herself around and got away from me (she actually pulled me over before I let go, I did my damndest to hold her) and ran back to the stables, the only place she knew... away from the other horses. wtf? she ran through the elec fence in her panic, pulled it all down, and then fell over on the tarmac yard at a flat out gallop, knocking all her top teeth out and permanently wrecking the buds of the adult teeth, and punching her teeth clean through her top lip.
lots of vet and dentist attention have ensued, as you can imagine...
the latest was 2 days ago, removing the last of the troublesome baby teeth which were totally out of line with the adult teeth that did make it. luckily she can graze, using her tongue and bottom teeth. heaven knows how, but she can.
as you can imagine, i was unspeakably upset. i rang her former owner, who said blithely "oh, she's never been led anywhere on her own before, she always follows something else."
WTF???? If so (and I have a HUGE problem with someone selling a yearling that has never ever been led anywhere on its own, but that aside) why didn't the absolutely idiotic woman at least TELL ME that?
So... still fuming, 4 years on. my poor Ellie did not deserve that, and I'd never have put her in that situation if I'd known, but this was a reputable breeder so I just assumed (mea culpa) that she'd done what everyone else I know does with their young horses...
OP, you did the right thing. Absolutely not worth the risk. Well done saving the situation by being so circumspect.
 
This drives me BONKERS too! My foals are practically still half in the womb when they're having towels chucked over their backs, feet picked up, headcollars on and off etc etc etc.

By the time they're a week old my foalies are completely happy to have rugs on and off, all feet picked up, brushe all over, and led a few steps away from mummy...


I took delivery of a yearling who had just been chucked in a field since weaning a few months ago. He knew he was bigger than me, and his party trick was rearing when he got cross about doing something. Couldn't pick his feet up, brush him, catch him, ANYTHING without seeing his belly button. Drives me insane.
 
Well, I guess i should be thankful to the people who I bought my youngster from this year from the sounds of it. They had him from 6 mths and I bought him this year aged 15mths. He leads, ties up, has his feet picked out, has had his feet trimmed, been bathed etc. Ok, so he's a little bolshy in some ways but he can trot up etc. The only issue we've had is he's recently had swollen sore legs (we think due to hay/grass or something diet wise) and as result has got a bit funny about picking his feet up. Understandable - they hurt, when we touch them it hurst more and he doesn't understand we're trying to help. We've decidede to leave alone, he's been seen by the vet (who he wouldn't let near his precious legs either!) had some bute and it seems to be working. He'll let me pick his feet up again just about. Guess it's all about trust.

I don't think it's hard to teach them the basics really is it and, surely if someone is expecting a decent price for their youngster they should do some initial groundwork. My youngster was not expensive at all, no particular breeding but his owners loved him and only had to sell him due to injury and time constraints.
 
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The stupid thing is its not that hard to do!!!
The foals I bought last year were unhandled and mums were as wild as they came too. Took a heck of a time to get mums remotely handlable, but the foals were catchable, touchable, and taught to lead inside a month. If you are seeing your youngstock on a daily basis and intend to sell them on, the least you can do IMO is teach the poor buggers the basics and make life a bit easier for them when its time to move on!
 
I also find it is much harder to teach them basic handling when they are older. I bought a completly untouched 3yo 2 years ago. We still have a daily battle to pick his feet out, and he is difficult to shoe, and with the vet/dentist (he kicked the vet once, I was so embarrassed!). As he was always in a field in a large group, with no human imput (until I got him) he doesn't look to humans when he is worried, he works completly on instinct. This means now he is broken (which took 1 year, and alot of blood, sweat and tears {literally!}), the smallest twig moving still leads to a major bronking fit, spin then a 0-60 home. Hence he is only hacked out on the quietest days, and no where near roads.

On the other end of the scale my 4 1/2 month foal is groomed daily, including having feet picked out. You can tie her up, rug her. She went to the Futurity evaluations so had to have a bath, be plaited, hooves trimmed by the farrier, and she loads happily into both a trailer and a lorry. She goes out on daily walks, next to the very busy main train line down to London with huge trains coming past without turning a hair. She has just started going out onto the roads, and so far is being very well behaved! She has also gone on visits to the farm next door to see the cows and pigs, and also watch the tractors moving around in a secure environment. She will be going showing, until she is backed. It will be interesting to see the difference between backing her and the unhandled 3yo!
 
My 4 year old was feral. He had been given the odd titbit & liked people, but had only had his feet trimmed once, and only seen the vet when he was gelded & microchipped. He is now a gent in most ways but still won't tolerate the farrier near him. It's so frustrating & pointless.
 
I brought Lola as a practically unhandled 3 year old last year. She'd had a headcollar on and would just about lead, but that was it. When i went to meet her breeder & see her sire she freely admitted she'd done nothing with her at all. Thankfully she's got the most amazing temprament and accepted everything in her stride. Took us a few weeks to be completely comfortable with having rugs on and feet picked up but she's excellent about most things now :D The only think she isn't great with is the farrier but saying that she's happy to be hot shod now and just pulls back occasionally to see how far she can push it, she's not scared. She was also very easy to back, is schooling nicely now after being backed properly 3 weeks ago and is getting better at hacking out alone too. She's surprisingly non-spooky and hasn't put a foot wrong yet. I just dont get how people can not handle their youngsters, especially when they intend on selling them! I love working with them when they're babies, it's my favourite stage :)
 
I had a similar thing too. I inheritited an 18month old colt last December. I had been told that the horses had been 'looked after' while their owner was ill and after her death and while they had been fed etc they had not been handled at all.

They simply put feeds in the stables and opened the field gate and they trotted them selves 1/4 mile down the track to the yard.

I got a transporter to bring them up from Devon to Surrey but went to help load, collect tack etc. The poor colt and his arab friend were in the stables. Arab not such a problem as he'd been ridden occasionally but it took me 30 minutes to get anywhere close to the colt.

When the transporter came in the morning (pre-warned that it could be a tricky job) it was so tough. Fortunately the arab loaded reasonably well but it took a lot of effort to get the baby in.

Very hard as we did end up practically picking him up and carrying him in (not something I like doing but circumstances at the time . . . ).

He's been with me since Dec 14th and he now leads, has feet picked out, seen farrier, had towels etc on his back, stands tied up on the yard, goes down the road for walks, has seen the dentist etc etc. But it took lots and lots of time and patience which would have been much better (and in early days less stressful for him) if he'd been handled earlier.

Also as he never saw the farrier 2 legs are slightly twisted but it's too late to correct this through shoeing. If he'd been looked at earlier there may have been a chance his legs could be straightened out.

Next year I hope to start taking him to some local in hand shows just to walk round and get experience. I'm not expecting any prizes esp with his legs but think it will be a good experience for him.

Sorry for long rambling post!!!
 
There is a misconception that young horses should be allowed to be babies and have little human interference in their younger days. Their dam can teach them manners.

However, we are not horses. So yes, the dam can teach the baby herd ettiquete, but only we can teach it the acceptance of people touching it, picking up it's feet, learning basic manners and building the foundations of a happy polite horse for the future.

That does not mean, of course that the youngster should be deprived of the 'being a baby' necessities such as living out with other youngsters, if possible, and galloping around causing mischief and providing us humans with much entertainment at the sight of a group of yearlings having foal races!.

But it is still possible to spend 5 minutes a day, picking up a foot, stroking foal all over, headcollar on; headcollar off. Just little repetitive things that form the basis for future work and introduce the foal to routine and structure and all importantly: acceptance and indeed, calmness.
 
it seems to be the way now to do nothing with them, I have three yearlings one 6 month old, 2 four year olds.
I show them all, you have to do the work it is a must.
People seem to think you can just get them put the in a field till backing grrr I just hate it.
 
I've got 2 youngsters and they are so very different.

One I got at 9 months and she'd been well handled, I can pretty much do anything with her, she's a chancer with the farrier but its just cheek, she's more than happy to have her feet done really.

The other I bought the day she turned 2 and she'd not been touched really from birth.
She's now 2 years 5 months and I'm struggling with her, she's 15.2hh at the last time I got a measuring stick near her, thats a lot of horse to teach to lead, control when upset etc.
All what I am trying to do with her now should have been done 18+ months ago.
There is no way I would even consider backing her in the spring, I am gonna have to leave her until 4 as she's just so far behind other filly's her age.

I would never buy an unhandled youngster again, when they get scarred and flip out - its scary and dangerous x
 
mcnaughty said:
Erm - I have a foal that is hopefully going at the end of the month. I can groom her, pick up feet - she has been trimmed by farrier twice, microchipped, rug on but can I get her to lead. Like hell no. I have no help up the yard and the YO and her friend are worse than useless. Last time I asked them to help they were so rough with her she went up and straight over backwards!

I am trying to get her sorted though but without some assitance it is very very difficult.

Fi
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They get like that sometimes don't they?:mad: My 6 month old led perfectly for months, now that he's been weaned he is a right delinquent, some days he'll lead, others he'll plant and, like you, without someone to wave arms to chivvy him, I'm stuffed. It's usually on the days when I don't have the schooling whip with me too. He knows, the crafty beggar!
 
Sadly too many people turn them away until they are 3yr old and ready for backing(probably seen a farrier for a trim,had a wormer shoved down their throat or seen a vet and thats their lot,all not paticularly nice experiences)...then wonder why they are little buggers to handle etc!My lad was handled every day from being 8month old,groomed everyday,walked out in hand etc etc...breaking was a dream,he was an absolute star(maybe i was lucky and had a very good boy?who knows,lol),Mum and sister had to look after him as a 2yr old whilst i lived away and could get him to me,and he was soo good for them both :D!15yrs on and anybody of any age and any size can still handle him and he's 16.3 :)
 
I bought a 2 year old that had never been handled bar its exmoor registration as a foal. It has been 10x harder than anything trying to get her used to things as simple as a headcollar on. In some ways it is nice because u get a blank canvas and can train them completely your way. It does make life hard for both me and her.
In comparison last year I bought a 2 year old that had been handled and done everything like leading out and travelling grooming etc and he has been a dream to have and back! Though he is scared of brooms which I'm guessing is cos someone caught him with one as a younger horse.
So next year backing should b exciting with the unhandled one. If she's still bad I'm just gonna have to leave her till 4. At least she is only 12hh.
Oh and she is an exmoor but was bred locally by a small breeder on a farm and has just been living with the handled broodmares since she was born.
 
can i just say though that sometimes they do go through a 'feral' stage in spite of loads of handling as a baby... i have now had 2 fillies which I handled all the time as foals, couldn't keep my hands off them, but they got to about 1 1/2 to 2 years old and went a bit wild, started feeling their strength and trying it on. they grew through it (and had quite a few sharp reminders that I wasn't there to play with, etc etc.) They'd still been regularly handled, fed twice a day, trimmed, led around, etc etc.
If I'd sold either of them then, I'm sure the buyer would have thought I'd never touched the flipping things!
 
To be honest id rather have a wild unhandled one than one that's been handled but badly, at least you have a blank canvass to work with. We bought a coloured 6mth old colt 3yrs ago, totally wild unhandled & the only time it had seen people was when it was herded up & put through the sales, 3yrs down the line you could not ask for a more laid back friendly & easy to do chap.
On the other hand i have a 2yr old Arab who was well handled as a foal & was lovely to do things with as a baby, now hes a total arse & i cant get anywhere near him at the moment, which is a right pain as you can imagine!
 
I think the big problem with the whole leave them to be horses argument is that you still have to handle them for basic maintenance. I was really worried that my 4 yo hadn't had his Tetanus. He was a monster to jab when he arrived, the vet refused to do it. I had to wait a couple of months till he was quieter - I was worried to death he would get a cut.
He couldn't have had much basic veterinary care for wounds anyway & is still a monster if you go near him with any kind of medicine.

I also think the argument only works if they are in a proper herd. Mine was out with his mum, who he terrorised and his sister who was his ally in mischeif. He thought he was a superhero when he arrived, thankfully Sienna soon put him in his place, but he has a real issue with discipline.
 
I can see this from both directions :) I am currently backing a 17.3hh 4yo which came out of a field 8 weeks ago, untouched since he was bought as a foal. Now, this is a slow process, with him being very accepting of some things (leading, grooming, rugs, tack, long reining and lungeing are fine) and not about others (I still can't pick his feet up:(), but he likes people and fortunately for him and me his new owner is in no rush, would rather he was done properly than quickly:). I am really enjoying the process as it happens.

The previous horse she bought (and sent back) was a 3yo which had been handled since birth - or overhandled - having been led, walked out for 1.5 miles every day, taken to shows (and fed like a fois gras goose), result of which was two whacking great splints and a young horse that weaved like billy-o when she put him in the stable (which the seller had failed to declare:confused:).

A young horse which has been started badly is imo far worse to deal with than a young horse which has never really been handled.

Personally I think there is a happy medium - my yearlings live out together and come in at night in the winter. They are easy to catch and lead and to do stuff to and like human company as well as horse company. BUT they are still allowed to enjoy their youth, to grow on without excess strain on their joints (or their minds), and I am really looking forward to doing stuff with them in a couple of years time:D.
 
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