rant

[polaris]

Not really expecting any replies as there really are non....Just cannot believe the nonsensically mentality of some people!
Just been called barbaric for letting my Wolfhound kill and eat a rabbit!
Apparently a dog is not a natural predator????????????????????????????????????????????????????? and it's not o.k
Cannot believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dozzie]

Was it your neighbours pet????? :shocked:

 

[polaris]

nope a completely wild rabbit, in the open!!!!!!

 

[dozzie]

Im amazed that a wolfhound could raise the enthusiasm!! The ones Ive met are soooooo laid back! Also, the rabbit must have been a bit stupid not to see him coming!!!

Unfortunately thats what hounds are bred to do. Dont worry about it.

My mastiffs caught and ate a racing pigeon once!! Probably someones prize bird!!! Well it just sat there waiting to be eaten!! How stupid was it that it didnt hear or see two mastiffs coming, who couldnt be stealthlike if you paid them millions! Very embarassing!

Fortunately no-one knows- oops- until now!!!!!!

 

[polaris]

lol!!!!! Your dogs are magnificient and would love to see more piccies of them!
Ahhh bless you....it doesn't bother me that much just that when I was trying to explain the obvious he drove off which insensed me! My wife and I are recovering from killer flu so just not really on top form! Believe it or not our Wolfie is the most hyperactive up for it wolfie we have ever met...he lives to hunt and is a very good rabbiter.....He's getting on now at almost 5 but still can't resist a good chase! He chases down until the jobs done.
My mother in law is Spanish and grew up with mastiffs around the place. Her friend used to breed them many moons ago. Lovely dogs but don't they slobber a bit?

 

[dozzie]

Yep they slobber lots!!!!Mind you I think that is the only down side! Oh apart from when they try to sit on your lap!! Will have to post a picture of this!!!

Or when they manage to sneak upstairs onto the bed!!! Theres no moving them!!!!

 

[Thistle]

You dog was only doing his job, just like my lurcher does most days.

 

[polaris]

Thanks guys for the support....would love to see all your pup piccies...

 

[Weezy]

My tiny Springer caught a pigeon the other day :crazy:

 

[endymion]

They're not, they are a man-made breed but then rabbits are not a native species.

 

[polaris]

I agree endymion but just the fact that they are animals with huge meat eating teeth and the ability to catch and kill other smaller animals and stalk and hunt...well kind of makes them predatory. I think that if a wolf killed the rabbit and then my dog killed the wolf he still would have found it barbaric....despite that being the very reason for the Wolfhounds existence. However what he thought a tin of dog food with rabbit contained was beyond me!!!!!!

 

[smilincow21]

I hate people like that! I once worked in a hotel as a waitress, and we got a complaint from a man who had orderd the pigion. He later complained that there were pellets in it! I mean how else are you meant to kill it without mashing it into mince meat looking for pellets! Its hardly like the chef grabbed a tame one and pulled its neck!

 

[polaris]

lol Silversong!!!!Chef might have used harsh language to bring it down.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"They're not"

A dog is NOT a natural predator - are you completely mad! Of course dogs are natural predators just as horses are natural flisht animals and birds are natural fliers.

For Christ's sake!

 

[endymion]

Accidents happen and there's nothing anyone can do to help that. I just think people shouldn't encourage it and if it does happen they should try and call their dog off.

 

[polaris]

That's fair enough Endymion but it was not an accident. I deliberately coursed my dog there so that he could hunt a rabbit. The thing is if he does not do what he was bred to do i.e/ kill...(albeit wolves but we have non of them in England) he would be a miserable dog indeed. He loves rabbiting and it fulfills his instinct making him a happy and nice dog. He also eats what he kills wit h no waste. If I were to disallow him this basic instinct, I think that I would be denying him his very reason to exist.

 

[endymion]

But should we really be breeding dogs that have to hunt in the first place?

I've one jack russell terrier and one jack russell x cairn terrier (aged 3 and 16 respectively). Both hunting dogs through and through. Never killed anything in their lives. Don't get me wrong they sometimes stick their heads down holes, bark at squirrels ect but they're stimulated in other ways and they are both very happy. I'm not stunting their natural instincts because these are fufilled in mock playing and training and to be honest I can recall only once when I've had to stop one of them from killing - and it was a crab down on the coast where I used to live.

Think of how many hunting dogs people own that don't hunt and are happy. Does every spaniel owner shoot, every terrier owner dig, every greyhound owner coarse?

I can see where you're coming from but it's just justification IMO

E

 

[Ereiam_jh]

I can't imagine taking my dogs out without them hunting in some form or other. They very rarely kill anyting but you just have to look at them to realise they are hunting.

The Government defines hunting wild mammals as including searching, flushing out, dispersing and pursuing wild mammals. Basically anything covered by the ordinary English meaning of the word 'hunt'.

Thne steps I would have to take to prevent my dogs doingh these things are just too draconian. It's quite clear that the law goes too far and that it is only right for people to brea it.

Polaris, you should try setting your dog after a hare. It would probably be LESS cruel as hares run much faster and would be more likely to escape. Most of all have fun and don't worry about the Hunting Act. You can openly flout it and no one will lift a finger to stop you.

 

[endymion]

SHOCK! That was an unpredictable reply.

There's a huge difference between a dog running off hunting of it's own accord and a person intentionally setting a dog on a wild mammal. You say your dogs do the former but you support people who do the latter.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

No, I intend them to run off and hunt wild mammals. They don't just hunt of their own accord I let them hunt. I also use them to hunt the deer in my woods.

I support the notion of a sensible welfare based anti cruelty law. Unfortunately that isn't what the Hunting Act is so I support people's right to break it and break it myself.

 

[endymion]

Forget the law for a minute.

Encouraging dogs to hunt is not natural and is done soley for our entertainment. It's not the expression of a natural instinct it's the manipulation of an animal's natural instinct by man to suit his own desires. Thats what makes it wrong.

 

[polaris]

Hello all!!!!
Endymion....I really and honestly respect and acknowledge what you say and thank you for taking the time to read and reply...It's rare that my posts provoke much of a reaction but I do really believe that my dog naturally hunts and loves it. To be fairly honest with you I don't enjoy picking up what he has killed to inspect it's soundness before he consumes it. The Wolfhound is an 'engineered' breed for hunting and as such it is my duty to let him do what he does...he has chased hare and loves it but has never ever caught one as he is far to big and slow for that. Over time he has 'refined' his hunting skills to be calculated and planned way beyond anything I would have the knowledge or ability to teach him and since he is our only dog I can only assume that years of breeding him as a hunter have made him behave this way.He is not indiscriminate but calculating....he does not chase every rabbit but ones that he has a chance of catching as the energy needed is vast and needless running would mean the death of him in a world where his dog food does not come from a packet. He is fed by us and wants for nothing but still feels the need to hunt....it is really instinct and all his.

 

[smilincow21]

Endymion, put any dog a position where it is able to hunt and it will, its INSTINCT. You can try and train them out of it but it is always there! As for your dogs, I'm sure the only reason they havn't killed anything yet is because they havn't been in that position, but believe me they will, especially if they are terriers!
As for the comment that dogs are not natural preditiors, that is complete b**s***! Wild Dogs, before they were tamed to domestic dogs, would have had to hunt and scavange to survive. I can't recall of dog food tins being made for wild dogs by humans BC! Nor do I believe they lived off a diet of lettuce and grass and were called consumers! Also if dogs live together and are allowed to roam the countryside they will form a pack and work as a team to hunt and bring down prey. I don't think this would be needed if they had a diet of lettuce and grass!

 

[endymion]

It's a good natured reaction!

I agree with all you said in your last reply in that it is in a dogs nature to hunt but I still don't think that people should encourage or breed dogs for that purpose. People artificially bred wolfhounds because they gained some benefit or pleasure from using them to hunt. I think thats wrong. If someone is walking their dog and it runs off and kills something then thats an accident but to encourage and enjoy the unnecessary death of an animal to me is immoral.

My halo is shining brightly tonight :grin:

 

[endymion]

Wolves have a generalised body structure and physiology when compared to a domestic dog. The domestic dog has been hybridised in what is essentially a speeded up artificial version of evolution to produce different varieties i.e fast dogs, stamina dogs, dogs to hunt small prey, dogs to hunt large prey ect ect. The difference between this and REAL evolution is that natural selection would never have produced any of these breeds in nature becuase they are ill adapted for survival in the wild. Most domestic dogs would not survive without human support. There are feral dogs living in cities but they largely survive off of human refuse. Naturalised dogs such as dingos are different from the majority of domestic stock. Domestic dogs would die if released not form packs! Even if this far fetched idea came to fruition the number of dog packs that were able to survive would be incredibly low and the number of dogs in each pack far less than that in fox hunting.

So you see I am not saying that it is not in a dogs nature to hunt, I am saying domestic dogs are not natural predators, there's a big difference!

My dogs are out morining to night and usually walked every day along the coast and rabbit infested salt-marsh near my house. The little one has a good sniff if there's the scent of a fox around and will stick his head down a rabbit hole but as soon as he notices he's getting left behind he scampers straight back, if not a quick flash of his tennis ball does the trick. They both also run free with the dogs at my riding school and have never killed anything there either, despite the fact the youngest came from a farm where his parents and grandparents were bred as ratters.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

It's in a dogs nature to hunt and yet they are not natural predators mmm.

I encourage my dogs to hunt by taking them into areas teeming with wildlife. Dogs hunt wildlife it's as simple as that.

I don't enjoy unnecessary killing. My dogs very rarely kill anything. If I enjoyed unnecesarily killing then going out with my dogs would be a bizzarre way of getting my kicks. I do however take responsibility for everything my dogs kill. I think these deaths are amply compensated for by the fantastic times we have.

I love going out and hunting for wild animals with my dogs. I feel part of the pack. It's illegal but let's be honest that is a little bit silly when applied to people like me.

Most of all I am not cruel. My dog's quarry have a very good chance of survival.

There's nothng wrong with what I do. I love hunting.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

"dogs are not natural predators"

Ah yes I can see the point you are making now. Technically you could say that dogs aren't natural animals at all.

Actually I'd disagree philosophically with that. The bond between dog and man which has produced the modern breeds of dog is entirely natural. Hunting with dogs is as natural to us as our use of tools or fire or our love of music.

Even your beach side strolls with atennis ball are natural in a sense.

 

[smilincow21]

Fair enough Endymion, if that is your view, but when dogs were first domesticated, they were used and bred to hunt for humans, in order for the human to eat. Some peasants who couldn't afford a cow or hens would relie on hunting wild life in woods etc.
Yes, I also take my dogs for walks through woodland, and if I see a fox, I will set my dogs on it. As they are collies they don't kill, but they will chase it for fun! They are useless at killing, we had a rabbit with mixi, which I set my dogs onto, but they couldn't understand how to kill it, so I was left to knock it over the head!

 

[endymion]

Really? Then why have we so many breeds with health problems due to their physical structure as desired by us? I'm thinking of boxers, peke's, labs, bulldogs ect

 

[endymion]

But we dont need to use them for food now, we do it only for pleasure, there is no purpose. That makes it wrong in my opinion.