rant

[smilincow21]

"The bond between dog and man which has produced the modern breeds of dog is entirely natural."

Yes, but however humans pointed out key characteristics in dogs they would like to have in a breed, probably because they needed a dog with a particular characteristic, (to hunt a particular animal, round up animals, guard and protect) which was how the dog breeds are around today (selective breeding). For instance terriers were bred to be small and tough, so they could be small enough to fit down holes and kill what ever was down there.
But selective breeding has been the making of some creatures- horses, cows sheep, basically all domesticated animals!

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Thes ethings are symptomatic of a far wider natural crisis that the world is going through. Namely mankind [****] up the planet.

Personally I wouldn't want a pedigree dog. I'm all for a bit of mongrelism.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Silversong, that is exactly how I feel. My dogs are collies too. Why on earth shouldn't I chase wild animals with them? By setting your dogs after a fox you are of course committing a criminal act. However it is also blatantly obvious that no one is going to prosecute you for it. We seem to have a myriad of ill founded laws which we don't have to obey.

 

[endymion]

I have nothing against the selective hydridisation of domestic stock for our own uses as long as it is consistant with modern society and ethics. I object to breeding that produces traits harmful to the species in the long run such as susceptibility to disease and hip problems in labs ect. I would not support the cross-breeding of farm animals for meat/dairy industries.

I fully appreciate that in our history we needed to hunt to live and that the domestication of the dog was an integral part of our recent social evolution. However, that is our past not our present or future and I find it immoral to exploit that hunting ability to gain pleasure.

Hunting cannot be justified by using examples from human pre-history. We are a species who have a violent history against each other, we have been characterised by war. Does that make it acceptable to engage in war today or to practise rascism in the way our tribal ancestors did when they persecuted tribes from other regions?

 

[endymion]

Well you either don't ride or are a very bad rider!

I dont use spurs and rarely use a whip (only sometimes for flatwork). I have never owned a horse but if I did I would not sell it when it got old, I would take full responsibility of it for it's lifetime. I grew up in riding schools and did indeed see a lot of cruelty - horses shot rather than treated for expensive illnesses, spoilt brats whipping/kickin overworked ponies who were only a step away from the knackers yard, horses in damp, cold stables ect ect the list is endless. I am against such things but I don't think the majority of horse owners treat their animals they way you portray.

 

[Ereiam_jh]

You do like to go on and on and on about how wonderful you are don't you?

You'll be spouting on about how you always shop ethically again soon. Another load of BS.

 

[moocow]

endymion

If it is not the instinct of a domestic dog to hunt, why do pet dogs, regardless of breed or lack there of, form packs and attack sheep? Dogs that are quiet pets, never harmed anything, never even seen another animal killed?

They do it because its instinct and they are natural predators!

 

[endymion]

Never said it wasn't natural instinct, I said they were not natural predators. They did not evolve by natural means, they are not wild animals. Any behaviour they exhibit is a throwback to wolf ancestry or inbreeding by man.

Either way I believe it wrong to use dogs to gain pleasure in watching them kill.

You may look at a terrier and think its a natural predator but how long would it survive in the wild? I used to have a pekinease (sp?) and she tried to catch birds all the time. The instinct was there but hardly a natural predator, eh?

 

[endymion]

Just because I dont kick the crap out of my mount or hunt for fun doesn't mean I think I'm the b*llocks. I could write a book if I tried to write down my shortcomings, faults, failings and sins. But I think it's important always to try and be ethical with other people, animals and the environment. No I dont always shop ethically, lasts nights dinner was from Tesco, but I try and do my best.

Isn't this a hunting forum where we discuss animals rights related ethics? If we were in another ethical debate I may not have a leg to stand on.

Come on, you're the philospher, shouldn't we not only formulate ethical opinions but also live by them?

 

[moocow]

dogs can live wild - have you never seen the littlest hobo?

 

[wurzel]

"Either way I believe it wrong to use dogs to gain pleasure in watching them kill. "

I am quite glum when the foxhounds rip up a fox on my fields.

Does that make it O.K?


Plus, you didn't answer the question.

I often experience 3 or 4 domestic dogs (Jack Russells, Wolfhounds, Spaniels together) forming a pack and attacking my sheep.

This seems like natural instinct.

Luckily I usually get to shoot one of them.

Or maybe I dream it all !!!

 

[polaris]

Ahhhh wouldn't be my Wolfie Tom......here's the real kick...He'd take on a bull given half the chance, maybe even a horse....but he's scared of lambs!lol!!!!

 

[RLF]

I have a JRT, who has been raised like a baby to me I have always discorouged chasing 'prey'. He is very well behaved and under control, until the minute he gets outside, and then spends every minute diving down holes, chasing birds, cats, basically anything that runs. He often kills mice in the stable block. Funny thing is though we have a few chickens wondering around our garden and he has never chased them or tried to attack them. I would certainly agree that its a dog instict (well certainly some breeds) to chase and kill.

 

[Clodagh]

My saluki/whippet hunts all the time. I tried to stop her, as we ended up with no hares (before the ban), but never had any luck. Shes fine with our chickens, but anything furry is fair dos.
(Rather embarrasingly once had a roebuck at bay in the middle of next door very anti huntings farmers field).

 

[milor]

a Wolfhound may be 'engineered' to hunt in the same way that a pit bull is 'engineered' to fight - should we then allow this breed to follow it's natural instincts too ...?

 

[Ereiam_jh]

Personally I don't approve of dog fighting or any other form of animal baiting. Once you have a captive animal I thi nk you owe it a duty of care. Either to kill it as soon as possible, or to release it or to keep it in captivity and look after it's welfare. Putting two dogs in a ring or a dog and a badger in a ring doesn't meet those criteria.

 

[ROSSTHEJOCK]

What is the world coming to eh?!

Bring back the wolf so you and your big doggy can hunt just what he was bred to hunt and not just some rabbit titbit!

"Just cannot believe the nonsensically mentality of some people!".....could'nt agree more. Apart from the nonsensi.....nonsensica.......ehm?

 

[endymion]

...and solve murders, stop robbers, fight crime...... :grin: