Rats in the hay

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Little bit old-fashioned

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So after a whole winter with zero issues with rats the last 2 days I've suddenly found rat droppings on my little hay stack and on the small open bales of hayledge I have on pallets in my stable.

Bit concerned that a rat poo is going to end up in one of their haynets. Have removed the offending droppings as I see them but concerned to find I thought the hayledge was poo free stuffed 2 haynets hung them up horses munching away then spotted 3 droppings in the bottom of the empty hayledge plastic.

Im hoping that my due diligence checking over the hayledge before stuffing means im okay but obviously its a concern that rats are touching never mind pooing and potentially weeing on my horses food.

I knew I'd need to box clever with hard feed but I didnt realise they would suddenly start going for my hay.

I only keep 6 small bales at a time at the yard with 1 small hayledge bale open at a time - they get a mix - so nowhere for them to nest, so why are they suddenly all over it?

Can't put down poison as whilst hay is in a stable it is still relatively exposed to neighbours cats and mice also eating it or rats eating it and dying in the field and getting eaten by a neighbours cat. So I don't want to go down that road.

Equally though I dont see what asking a terrier man to come is going to do as they just seem to be coming out at night for a jolly then going away again. The place is immaculate and there is nowhere for them to bed down and make a home.

Bit stumped. Any suggestions? Also how worried do I need to be or can I get rid of droppings for now when I find them?

Hoping we are on our last week or 2 of haying then they can hit the Spring grass so won't be an issue after that as we also plan to build a better haystore for next winter that I'll be mindful to make as rat proof as possible.

All advice very greatly received! Thanks
 
Cats are not normally scavengers, preferring to catch and eat their own prey, rather than cleaning up after others. If your forage is kept on pallets, unfortunately you are creating a haven for the rats. Can you get someone to bring a terrier or ferrets in to move the rats on?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Cats are not normally scavengers, preferring to catch and eat their own prey, rather than cleaning up after others. If your forage is kept on pallets, unfortunately you are creating a haven for the rats. Can you get someone to bring a terrier or ferrets in to move the rats on?
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I dont think terriers would find any rats as they arent living in the hay just seem to come in at night so terrier men may find the whole thing as disappointment, unless the terriers will go and find the lair they are coming out of? Do they do that? Or would the smell of the terriers being in be a deterrent anyway? I could get my friends dogs to come run all around the hay and leave their scent if that can help as a short term deterrent?

I could try moving all the stuff out of the feed store and putting it in the stable and then putting the hay in the feed store although that was recently moved and not quite as gap free as before but certainly more of a challenge to get in at I think.

If putting hay on pallets creates a haven for them - any advice on how to store my hay differently long term? I cant really put it directly on the floor. Putting it directly on the floor - just because I dont know - would that make it less attractive to the rats or just the same?

We do have a long term plan for storing the hay better next winter but if I ask my other half to help me start building a hay store tomorrow I think he'll leave me. He's had just about enough of the horses after the challenging winter we've had 😂
 
Little bit old-fashioned said:
So after a whole winter with zero issues with rats the last 2 days I've suddenly found rat droppings on my little hay stack and on the small open bales of hayledge I have on pallets in my stable.

Bit concerned that a rat poo is going to end up in one of their haynets. Have removed the offending droppings as I see them but concerned to find I thought the hayledge was poo free stuffed 2 haynets hung them up horses munching away then spotted 3 droppings in the bottom of the empty hayledge plastic.

Im hoping that my due diligence checking over the hayledge before stuffing means im okay but obviously its a concern that rats are touching never mind pooing and potentially weeing on my horses food.

I knew I'd need to box clever with hard feed but I didnt realise they would suddenly start going for my hay.

I only keep 6 small bales at a time at the yard with 1 small hayledge bale open at a time - they get a mix - so nowhere for them to nest, so why are they suddenly all over it?

Can't put down poison as whilst hay is in a stable it is still relatively exposed to neighbours cats and mice also eating it or rats eating it and dying in the field and getting eaten by a neighbours cat. So I don't want to go down that road.

Equally though I dont see what asking a terrier man to come is going to do as they just seem to be coming out at night for a jolly then going away again. The place is immaculate and there is nowhere for them to bed down and make a home.

Bit stumped. Any suggestions? Also how worried do I need to be or can I get rid of droppings for now when I find them?

Hoping we are on our last week or 2 of haying then they can hit the Spring grass so won't be an issue after that as we also plan to build a better haystore for next winter that I'll be mindful to make as rat proof as possible.

All advice very greatly received! Thanks
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So long as you’re not using poison, why don’t you get a couple of cats from the feral rehoming charities? They are super patient stalkers of mice and rats. But if there are dopey, poisoned rats not yet finished off - they will definitely also catch and eat these, and you could horribly lose the cats too. Pallets create handy runs and hidey holes for vermin. If you stack stuff on railway sleepers, generally sufficient room for cats to also hunt beneath, certainly for ferrets.
 
tda said:
The only other thing with rats is they pee as they are going along 🙈
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Yes this was my big worry. I can see on the cameras that the girls haven't eaten their hay and have gone off to graze. This could be because the grass is coming through and they prefer it or they are off the hay. The hay is pretty rubbish anyway as its the last 6 bales im willing to feed out of the winter store so I think I might just make my life easy and throw it out and they can just spend the next couple of weeks on pure hayledge to make my life easier. That way I can just put the open bale each day in the feed store which is more secure and if I open fresh in mornings I can use half AM and half PM so I never leave a bag open overnight.

They aren't interested in the hay much now anyway. They eat some hayledge then go off to graze. Got a stunning forecast this week too which should encourage the grass to shoot. Then I'll just make sure our new store we build is secure and rat proof. If i don't give them anywhere to live or access to anything limited damage they can do and hopefully they will bu**er off.

Just decided that honestly at this point when we are so close to not needing to feed forage I don't have the energy for a huge infrastructure overhaul in an attempt to save a couple of bales of very standard quality hay. Think I'd rather my purse took the hit on a bit of extra hayledge!
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Definitely rats?
Only asking as neighbour was incandescent about rats last week, on inspecting closely they were squirrel droppings.

If rats, are you able (or willing) to set traps? I found this cleared the few I had 4 yrs ago over a week of setting them.
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Oh no - sadly they are rat alright! Would know them a mile off!
 
In the last few weeks I've had a huge influx of rats and mice - I think it's due to the neighbours clearing outbuildings and the heavy rain forcing them out of usual places. It's odd in my situation as its come after a visit from Mr fox who cleared out all our chickens which is normally what encourages the rats to take up residence.

We also keep ferrets (long story - not my choice) and the rats are actually making a home under the ferret cage. I mean talk about taking the P! I let the ferrets run in the feed room while I clean them out at the weekend, this usually keeps the rats out of there at least.

See if you can find a local ferreting group - Wessex Ferret Club have members who work their ferrets traditionally and might be able to pop out with a couple for a visit. The smell of a ferret is usually enough to keep rodents away for a few weeks.

ETA - you can have a couple of ours if you think they are cute! 🤣
 
dorsetladette said:
the last few weeks I've had a huge influx of rats and mice
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Do they go at your hay as well or stick to other areas?


dorsetladette said:
ETA - you can have a couple of ours if you think they are cute! 🤣
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Thanks for the offer but pretty sure if I made that suggestion I'd tip my other half over the edge 🤣

A friend's yard cat has just had an unexpected litter of kittens and they are already trying to get me to take 2 for rat catching so that might end up being what we do. But that wouldn't be for weeks.

Another thought. I've got some sheets of wood that I'm using as a floor base when I'm stuffing hay nets. If I move the hay onto that and remove the pallets do you think the rats will continue to climb on top of the hay and poo on it or might it be that they do that because of the pallets?

I'm just thinking I can throw away the top 2 bales and still maybe used the 4 stacked underneath as I highly doubt those have been contaminated from a few poos or a bit of wee on the bales on top. Or do you think now they know its there its already game over and they will come climbing regardless?

Not sure how I'm going to dispose of the bales so thinking 2 can go on muckheap right away but if I put 6 on my muckheap will be out of control and not much use for compost!

Every time you think you've overcome a challenge (those who have been amazingly supportive on my other thread will understand I've had a tough winter) a new one crops up.
 
Little bit old-fashioned said:
Do they go at your hay as well or stick to other areas?



Thanks for the offer but pretty sure if I made that suggestion I'd tip my other half over the edge 🤣

A friend's yard cat has just had an unexpected litter of kittens and they are already trying to get me to take 2 for rat catching so that might end up being what we do. But that wouldn't be for weeks.

Another thought. I've got some sheets of wood that I'm using as a floor base when I'm stuffing hay nets. If I move the hay onto that and remove the pallets do you think the rats will continue to climb on top of the hay and poo on it or might it be that they do that because of the pallets?

I'm just thinking I can throw away the top 2 bales and still maybe used the 4 stacked underneath as I highly doubt those have been contaminated from a few poos or a bit of wee on the bales on top. Or do you think now they know its there its already game over and they will come climbing regardless?

Not sure how I'm going to dispose of the bales so thinking 2 can go on muckheap right away but if I put 6 on my muckheap will be out of control and not much use for compost!

Every time you think you've overcome a challenge (those who have been amazingly supportive on my other thread will understand I've had a tough winter) a new one crops up.
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My hay is delivered monthly in round bales and covered with a heavy tarp (stored outside) so they don't really get chance to get settled in it and can't get on top of it. They do take up home underneath the pallets as it's dry under there.

Try and keep as much loose hay as possible off the floor so they have less 'bedding materials' easily available. Tie your open bales back up tightly.

I'd definitely use your top 2 bales as sacrifice bales to avoid the rest getting pee'd and poo'd on. Just keep popping them back on top when you take a new bale out.

Putting that amount of hay on your muck heap might cause you to have an issue with nettles further down the line. if you could burn it that would be better.



FYI - the ferrets are very cute!!! Just a little bit bitey!! 🤣
 
Exasperated said:
Yep, weill’s disease, as well to use gloves to handle equipment rats are likely to have been running across. Next door’s kitties sound delightful,, but a pair of ferals more likely to be straight on task.
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Oh god. Been googling Weil's disease and starting to feel panicked now. Can see on camera one of the girls came down to eat some hay. Starting to worry that what if there are traces on urine on any of the hay in the nets despite my checking what I fed this morning. I mean I know it was poo free but I can't be 100% sure about urine.

Does anyone know how easy it is for them to contract it? Could a tiny trace be enough? Feel a bit sick. Obviously will be emptying out current nets (or 1 as 1 was a newly unwrapped bale this morning) but can't get down until after work now.
 
Little bit old-fashioned said:
Oh god. Been googling Weil's disease and starting to feel panicked now. Can see on camera one of the girls came down to eat some hay. Starting to worry that what if there are traces on urine on any of the hay in the nets despite my checking what I fed this morning. I mean I know it was poo free but I can't be 100% sure about urine.

Does anyone know how easy it is for them to contract it? Could a tiny trace be enough? Feel a bit sick. Obviously will be emptying out current nets (or 1 as 1 was a newly unwrapped bale this morning) but can't get down until after work now.
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Stop panicking.

The rats have not been there long and will not have spoilt all your hay. If every horse that ate a bit of hay a rat had walked on had a problem, you and every other horse owner in the country, would certainly be well aware of it.

As long as you are keeping only a small amount of hay there and using it in a reasonable time, you will not have to worry.
 
Little bit old-fashioned said:
Oh god. Been googling Weil's disease and starting to feel panicked now. Can see on camera one of the girls came down to eat some hay. Starting to worry that what if there are traces on urine on any of the hay in the nets despite my checking what I fed this morning. I mean I know it was poo free but I can't be 100% sure about urine.

Does anyone know how easy it is for them to contract it? Could a tiny trace be enough? Feel a bit sick. Obviously will be emptying out current nets (or 1 as 1 was a newly unwrapped bale this morning) but can't get down until after work now.
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Is your hay wrapped bales?

In which case I wouldn't worry about sacrificing the top bales (or your horses to much) just make sure you are wearing gloves when your handling the wrapping and wash your hands afterwards (before you eat, drink or chew your nails).
 
rabatsa said:
Stop panicking.

The rats have not been there long and will not have spoilt all your hay. If every horse that ate a bit of hay a rat had walked on had a problem, you and every other horse owner in the country, would certainly be well aware of it.

As long as you are keeping only a small amount of hay there and using it in a reasonable time, you will not have to worry.
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Thank you. Honestly appreciate that. I am prone to panicking. In fact I'm terrible for if. I actually really appreciate being told - stop/shut up/don't be ridiculous.

I really wish I hadn't developed this weird neurosis since returning to horses. Panic, worry, panic. Was NEVER like this 10 years ago.

I really shouldn't google things. Makes it sound like 1 drop will kill them in 24 hours.
 
dorsetladette said:
Is your hay wrapped bales?

In which case I wouldn't worry about sacrificing the top bales (or your horses to much) just make sure you are wearing gloves when your handling the wrapping and wash your hands afterwards (before you eat, drink or chew your nails).
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I keep hand sanitiser in the car and have a box of plastic gloves so I know I'm always fine and prepared.

Small hayledge bales are wrapped so they are fine but the small bales of hay are exposed but stacked in layers of 2 and 1 stack so got 2 bales on top then 2 more layers of 2 directly underneath that.
 
dorsetladette said:
Is your hay wrapped bales?

In which case I wouldn't worry about sacrificing the top bales (or your horses to much) just make sure you are wearing gloves when your handling the wrapping and wash your hands afterwards (before you eat, drink or chew your nails).
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Yes, this is right, or obviously if you have any open cuts, etc. weills is nasty, our neighbour finished in hospital after slinging tyres with rainwater and rat urine in them, up onto a silage clamp, so no point asking for trouble when there are known rat infestations, but rats are incredibly numerous in cities without huge outbreaks of weills. Your horses are unbelievably unlikely to be adversely affected, if rats have peed all over hay, they’ll not bother with it - especially since your grass is coming through. Good luck
 
Had a big rearrange this evening. Moved everything back into our original makeshift haystore which is pretty well sealed. Couple of potential entry holes that ive wedged wood and plastic electric fence posts in so if they get in there at least I'll know. Not seen a single dropping in there up this point but they'll have got a taste for the place now I'm sure.

Just swapped up feeding system do one whole bale of hay goes into the big rack and ill just put a new one in every couple of days whole and then just use nets for some hayledge. Sacrificed one bale of hay as couldnt fit in store and its been pooed on previously so interested to use it as a test case for activity now it is just on the floor and pallets all propped up against the walls so no more cosy runways.

Interesting to realise that I need to proceed with more caution than the horses. Hadn't thought to worry about myself - but wore plastic gloves during all handing tonight and will do whenever handling any of those bales now. Breathing in dusty particles from the bales might be an issue though.

Thanks as usual everyone. This forum really is a comfort - and sorry for the neuroticism!
 
Little bit old-fashioned said:
Had a big rearrange this evening. Moved everything back into our original makeshift haystore which is pretty well sealed. Couple of potential entry holes that ive wedged wood and plastic electric fence posts in so if they get in there at least I'll know. Not seen a single dropping in there up this point but they'll have got a taste for the place now I'm sure.

Just swapped up feeding system do one whole bale of hay goes into the big rack and ill just put a new one in every couple of days whole and then just use nets for some hayledge. Sacrificed one bale of hay as couldnt fit in store and its been pooed on previously so interested to use it as a test case for activity now it is just on the floor and pallets all propped up against the walls so no more cosy runways.

Interesting to realise that I need to proceed with more caution than the horses. Hadn't thought to worry about myself - but wore plastic gloves during all handing tonight and will do whenever handling any of those bales now. Breathing in dusty particles from the bales might be an issue though.

Thanks as usual everyone. This forum really is a comfort - and sorry for the neuroticism!
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Rats can chew through concrete, so blocking them out of buildings is rarely practicable! I think a good extermination attempt with ferret/terrier operative is a better bet (a ferret will follow the scent and can get anywhere the rat has been) A cat that hunts would be worthwhile to pick up any that return. Photos of my stable verminator and his back up muscle for cuteness
 

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Not sure if this would work as I haven't tried it personally. Sprinkle salt on top of the bales and between bales. If anything helps to keep the hay fresh for longer.
 
In the winter of 24/25 we had rats in our home yard - not horses but we keep sheep, chickens and rabbits there. They were coming over from a disused farm over the back and literally dug up the floor of one of our sheds. There were so many we were actually seeing them out and no matter how much we blocked the tunnels, they just dug them back out.

We got a pest control person to come round and he fitted a specific kind of bait into sealed boxes, i.e. such that nothing bigger than maybe a large rat or perhaps a squirrel could get in. I can't remember the details but it works in a different way to conventional rat poison so if a predator (owl, cat etc) ingests a dead or dying rat / mouse, it won't harm the predator. That bait is more expensive but it was worth it as we have a dog, lots of owls, and neighbours' cats. The rats have to eat multiple feeds of it before it will kill them. Google "first or second generation rat poisons" and I think it's first generation that are less dangerous for secondary poisoning.

He came round every fortnight for a while to check, empty, and re-stock the bait boxes. From memory I think it ended up costing a couple of hundred pounds but it upset the rat population enough that the live ones stopped coming onto our land. They didn't come back this winter either. So that may be worth a go as a last resort.
 
Widgeon said:
In the winter of 24/25 we had rats in our home yard - not horses but we keep sheep, chickens and rabbits there. They were coming over from a disused farm over the back and literally dug up the floor of one of our sheds. There were so many we were actually seeing them out and no matter how much we blocked the tunnels, they just dug them back out.

We got a pest control person to come round and he fitted a specific kind of bait into sealed boxes, i.e. such that nothing bigger than maybe a large rat or perhaps a squirrel could get in. I can't remember the details but it works in a different way to conventional rat poison so if a predator (owl, cat etc) ingests a dead or dying rat / mouse, it won't harm the predator. That bait is more expensive but it was worth it as we have a dog, lots of owls, and neighbours' cats. The rats have to eat multiple feeds of it before it will kill them. Google "first or second generation rat poisons" and I think it's first generation that are less dangerous for secondary poisoning.

He came round every fortnight for a while to check, empty, and re-stock the bait boxes. From memory I think it ended up costing a couple of hundred pounds but it upset the rat population enough that the live ones stopped coming onto our land. They didn't come back this winter either. So that may be worth a go as a last resort.
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Thank you for sharing this. I would be happy to put down a couple of traps of this stuff so long as it doesnt kill other animals who may eat the carcasses. I could put it in the space where only the rats are going as well. If im honest I think bringing in our own cats etc. Might upset the neighbour apple cart as lots of them have cats who regularly like to stalk through our fields - be nice if they bothered to do some rat catching! Although they may well and I don't know it - and if there happened to be a feral vs domestic cat territorial fight - based on the type of neighbours let's just say I don't have the energy for that but of course I don't want to be killing off other wild life. Trouble with neighbours cats vs a feral is they will be inside at night when the trouble starts.

No sign of activity this morning since the rearrange but I am not foolish enough to think this will be the last of them. They will eat their way into the other store in the end (wood so child's play really) so a plan to keep numbers at bay will be required.

I'll look up the different generations of rat poision and monitor activity and see if it becomes required.
 
Widgeon said:
In the winter of 24/25 we had rats in our home yard - not horses but we keep sheep, chickens and rabbits there. They were coming over from a disused farm over the back and literally dug up the floor of one of our sheds. There were so many we were actually seeing them out and no matter how much we blocked the tunnels, they just dug them back out.

We got a pest control person to come round and he fitted a specific kind of bait into sealed boxes, i.e. such that nothing bigger than maybe a large rat or perhaps a squirrel could get in. I can't remember the details but it works in a different way to conventional rat poison so if a predator (owl, cat etc) ingests a dead or dying rat / mouse, it won't harm the predator. That bait is more expensive but it was worth it as we have a dog, lots of owls, and neighbours' cats. The rats have to eat multiple feeds of it before it will kill them. Google "first or second generation rat poisons" and I think it's first generation that are less dangerous for secondary poisoning.

He came round every fortnight for a while to check, empty, and re-stock the bait boxes. From memory I think it ended up costing a couple of hundred pounds but it upset the rat population enough that the live ones stopped coming onto our land. They didn't come back this winter either. So that may be worth a go as a last resort.
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To use this bait you have to have completed a recognised course. It works by causing hypothermia in the target species, hence not being a danger to wildlife. This is now the only bait allowed in outside spaces.
 
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