Raw and kibble mixed, new research

Thistle

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CAN A RAW MEAT-BASED DIET BE MIXED WITH KIBBLE?
Mark Roberts PhD

Feeding a dog, a raw meat based (RMB) diet, is viewed by some dog owners and veterinarians as being inappropriate for many supposed reasons. With this concern expressed, an additional level of worry is instigated when combining of a raw meat-based diet with kibble is suggested, but is this viewpoint warranted?

Having completed several studies involving dogs consuming different ratios of commercial dry diets and RMB’s, I observed no detectable differences in faecal score and blood work over several parameters. To be specific, I witnessed none of the gastrointestinal issues commonly reported relating when a mix of these diets are fed to dogs. Don’t get me wrong, I would rather see (as my research would suggest for other reasons) dogs being fed solely a RMB, however, if this is simply not possible, for reasons such as cost, convenience, perception etc., then a combination of the two is a better option than just feeding kibble. This is because if it’s possible to reduce the amount of dietary carbohydrate a dog consumes, and replace this with high quality protein and fat, then this is a compromise I’m willing to accept.

I have witnessed all too often a hardline approach to feeding a dog on both sides of the debate (kibble vs meat based). Moreover, having seen no major health concerns from feeding a combination of both, if someone is willing to try mixing the two, in my experience, more often than not, they will likely see the dog consume the meat product first, and in time will switch over to that format if they are in a position to do so. I guess what I'm saying is that a gentle nudge is better than a hard push.
 

Christmascinnamoncookie

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I’m glad to see some research on raw that isn’t immediately derogatory!

I’m giving Goose a little bit of fish based kibble currently. I think he’s slightly allergic to chicken, I’m seeing a bit of scratching, red ears, so I’ve removed it from his diet and am supplementing with kibble. I’ve never encountered issues mixing the two, I’m on year 12 based on Bear’s age.
 

MissTyc

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I grew up with the "big dogs" getting a raw meaty bone/carcasses in the morning and a cheap bowl of "dog food" (probably from the supermarket or farm shop; who knows) at night. All our dogs lived ridiculously long lives and never a sorry day. The "small dogs" got a cheap tin of wet rather than kibble in the evening.

God knows why my parents ended up feeding them that way!

Mine have always been fully raw fed but I use kibble as treats or when they go to kennels for a few days. I can't say I've noticed any gastro disturbances. When my girl was spayed the vet gave her cooked chicken instead of their normal dog food as they didn't like to give "dog food" to a raw-fed dog ... As far as my dogs are concerned, most things are "DOG FOOD".
 

BallyRoanBaubles

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I do t do raw (imagine or the cost and number of freezers you’d need for eight!) but am also put off by the sheer complexity of it. If I had less dogs and could mix both it would be much more doable, the kibble would presumably cover any nutritional gaps in your raw diet.

Thats one of the things that put me off, I was worried Id miss something nutritionally, but I'd consider a raw and kibble mix
 

SaddlePsych'D

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It will be good to see some studies. When I was looking at supplementing Ivy's grain free kibble with raw tripe it was tricky finding reliable information. A lot of the 'you can't feed kibble with raw' came from raw food companies and affiliated vets. I did find one article doing a bit of debunking which was useful. She gets various things as toppers anyway, I didn't see how it would be much different. Adds to the variety of her diet and she's looking pretty good now.
 

Christmascinnamoncookie

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I do t do raw (imagine or the cost and number of freezers you’d need for eight!) but am also put off by the sheer complexity of it. If I had less dogs and could mix both it would be much more doable, the kibble would presumably cover any nutritional gaps in your raw diet.

Our local supplier does a barf beef mix, the 80:10:10 mix. I got them into this years ago and put a friend onto them. She has 12 dogs, mostly springers and is also a dog Walker and has lots for the day. She must be their best customer! She started off with the ready made commercial stuff but that’s crazy money. The local stuff is about £2 a kilo. All the dogs get handfuls of kibble chucked on the grass occasionally just for fun plus dog biscuits and any scraps-they like steak night!
 

maisie06

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CAN A RAW MEAT-BASED DIET BE MIXED WITH KIBBLE?
Mark Roberts PhD

Feeding a dog, a raw meat based (RMB) diet, is viewed by some dog owners and veterinarians as being inappropriate for many supposed reasons. With this concern expressed, an additional level of worry is instigated when combining of a raw meat-based diet with kibble is suggested, but is this viewpoint warranted?

Having completed several studies involving dogs consuming different ratios of commercial dry diets and RMB’s, I observed no detectable differences in faecal score and blood work over several parameters. To be specific, I witnessed none of the gastrointestinal issues commonly reported relating when a mix of these diets are fed to dogs. Don’t get me wrong, I would rather see (as my research would suggest for other reasons) dogs being fed solely a RMB, however, if this is simply not possible, for reasons such as cost, convenience, perception etc., then a combination of the two is a better option than just feeding kibble. This is because if it’s possible to reduce the amount of dietary carbohydrate a dog consumes, and replace this with high quality protein and fat, then this is a compromise I’m willing to accept.

I have witnessed all too often a hardline approach to feeding a dog on both sides of the debate (kibble vs meat based). Moreover, having seen no major health concerns from feeding a combination of both, if someone is willing to try mixing the two, in my experience, more often than not, they will likely see the dog consume the meat product first, and in time will switch over to that format if they are in a position to do so. I guess what I'm saying is that a gentle nudge is better than a hard push.


Makes total senseto me. I remember feeding raw green tripe on top of Value mix - the really cheap cornflakey stuff back in the 80's and we never had any issues!!

These days I'm doing raw food for breakfast and kibble in the evening - currentley of Autarky and looking very well on it. Full raw is just too expensive and the springer won't keep weight on with just raw alone - another sainsburys bargain today = 12 500g packs of 20% fat minced beef for just 60p per pack - happy days!!
 

Christmascinnamoncookie

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Makes total senseto me. I remember feeding raw green tripe on top of Value mix - the really cheap cornflakey stuff back in the 80's and we never had any issues!!

These days I'm doing raw food for breakfast and kibble in the evening - currentley of Autarky and looking very well on it. Full raw is just too expensive and the springer won't keep weight on with just raw alone - another sainsburys bargain today = 12 500g packs of 20% fat minced beef for just 60p per pack - happy days!!

OMG, what was the name of that stuff? I remember having a mini row with someone where I bought green tripe, they had the cornflakey stuff and I was a raw lunatic at the time, so wouldn’t feed cereal.
 

Clodagh

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Makes total senseto me. I remember feeding raw green tripe on top of Value mix - the really cheap cornflakey stuff back in the 80's and we never had any issues!!

These days I'm doing raw food for breakfast and kibble in the evening - currentley of Autarky and looking very well on it. Full raw is just too expensive and the springer won't keep weight on with just raw alone - another sainsburys bargain today = 12 500g packs of 20% fat minced beef for just 60p per pack - happy days!!
?. OH used to feed valumix to the working terriers. They held weight on it well, I must say. The poos though ?
 

Andie02

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I’m glad to see some research on raw that isn’t immediately derogatory!

I’m giving Goose a little bit of fish based kibble currently. I think he’s slightly allergic to chicken, I’m seeing a bit of scratching, red ears, so I’ve removed it from his diet and am supplementing with kibble. I’ve never encountered issues mixing the two, I’m on year 12 based on Bear’s age.


It was carbs and cheap fillers in kibble and wet dog food that caused the yeast overload and then the manky ears, which resulted in several ear infections, terrible itching/scratching and paw chewing with my dog. Initially my vet put her on steroids and then wanted to give her Apoquel, I said no more drugs. Fortunately I have managed to resolve her problems after lots of research and trial and error, without drugs. She has Orijen kibble which is high in protein and low in carbs, no grains, potatoes or sugar beet, and Forthglade Just Range. Even Forthglade with veg has set her off again with the problems. Stinky Stuff's food supplement daily helps considerably with these problems and encourages hair regrowth. Aromesse Pet Nat products are good for cleaning and soothing ears and an occasional itching/ paw licking or chewing episode. Home cooked chicken or any other meat and fish doesn't cause her any problems.
I had never encountered any of these problems with any of my dogs before, it was a nightmare to get them sorted. Steroids and other drugs just mask the problems, they don't cure the root of the problem. When you look on Itchy Dog Sites on fb it is apparently a fairly common problem.
I hope that you manage to resolve your dog's itching before it gets worse. It can take a few weeks for the irritant to leave their systems. the Stinky Stuff's food supplement should help with this.
 

Escapade

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I sometimes wonder how many issues are not actually due to composition of the food, but incorrect storage whether in the warehouse or the home, or a storage mite allergy

carbs work great for some dogs, raw works great for some dogs. neither is blanket better/worse, good/bad as most of what I see online suggests. Vague fb posts do little more than confuse well-intentioned owners imo. He has given no information on how to properly feed a combination of the two, or why someone should consider doing it.

as the author has mentioned studies I would expect a link to said (published?) studies. certainly his sled huskies have very different needs to my saluki mix, and I imagine they are very different regarding their AMY2B genes. we love carbs and grain in this house, doesn't mean you should too ??‍♀️
 

SusieT

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I would like to see the studies he has done - they sound very thorough but no mention of where to find them? We are of course only getting a copied version here.
 

SusieT

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Don't think any of those (one is a conference programme?) are studies on the topic raised above? I can only find one obvious paper published about dog selecting food which isn't anything particularly more than dogs like meat better than carbs?
 

Escapade

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It shouldn’t be hard work if the sources are there ??‍♀️

Title says new research, does not include research. Does include waffle. Nothing to back up claims beyond “feelings” and observations. Feelings don’t mean anything. He sells raw food for a living of course he wants more people feeding it ?
 

skinnydipper

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Sneaky edit there skinnydipper ?

If you had read my post again before you posted you would have seen that I had removed the first line some time previously.

Nothing sneaky about it.

The last edit was because I had been going to say that as with humans dogs have no nutritional requirement for carbohydrate and, like humans, they can make what glucose they need via a process known as gluconeogenesis.
 

AmyMay

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It was carbs and cheap fillers in kibble and wet dog food that caused the yeast overload and then the manky ears, which resulted in several ear infections, terrible itching/scratching and paw chewing with my dog. Initially my vet put her on steroids and then wanted to give her Apoquel, I said no more drugs. Fortunately I have managed to resolve her problems after lots of research and trial and error, without drugs. She has Orijen kibble which is high in protein and low in carbs, no grains, potatoes or sugar beet, and Forthglade Just Range. Even Forthglade with veg has set her off again with the problems. Stinky Stuff's food supplement daily helps considerably with these problems and encourages hair regrowth. Aromesse Pet Nat products are good for cleaning and soothing ears and an occasional itching/ paw licking or chewing episode. Home cooked chicken or any other meat and fish doesn't cause her any problems.
I had never encountered any of these problems with any of my dogs before, it was a nightmare to get them sorted. Steroids and other drugs just mask the problems, they don't cure the root of the problem. When you look on Itchy Dog Sites on fb it is apparently a fairly common problem.
I hope that you manage to resolve your dog's itching before it gets worse. It can take a few weeks for the irritant to leave their systems. the Stinky Stuff's food supplement should help with this.

Which flavour Origen do you feed?
 

Andie02

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Which flavour Origen do you feed?

They have six fish and regional red, alternating daily to give them variation, they have also had the tundra, this though is a bit more costly and they only do it in the larger bags. None of these have caused problems with her itching and manky ears. I haven't used any of the others, there is plenty of choices in the ingredients. We have the 6kg bags which suits us with 2 JRT's. Our old boy has not had any problems with itching/yeast/food.
 

AmyMay

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They have six fish and regional red, alternating daily to give them variation, they have also had the tundra, this though is a bit more costly and they only do it in the larger bags. None of these have caused problems with her itching and manky ears. I haven't used any of the others, there is plenty of choices in the ingredients. We have the 6kg bags which suits us with 2 JRT's. Our old boy has not had any problems with itching/yeast/food.

Thanks. May give it a go for Jack x
 
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